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Question: Did Satoshi think that quantum computers will exist?
yes - 29 (74.4%)
no - 10 (25.6%)
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Author Topic: Did Satoshi think that quantum computers will exist?  (Read 1406 times)
squatter
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August 06, 2019, 06:16:08 PM
 #21

A bit of a stale topic since even the most optimistic projections give us another decade before such a qc becomes a viable threat... And it is conceivable that Bitcoin would have upgraded significantly by then... Considering the developments of the last decade alone.

I do wonder if all that presumed upgrades would also be retrospective, it would have to be otherwise people who didn't update wallets would risk losing everything.

No quantum-resistant upgrade can retroactively protect vulnerable bitcoins. That's why we're "damned if you do, damned if you don't." Either way, there could still be millions of vulnerable bitcoins held on exposed public keys. The Satoshi coins, for example.

The only way to prevent those bitcoins from being stolen and re-added to the supply would be to lock/destroy them in a fork. For example, we could implement a fork where coins are destroyed if they aren't moved in n blocks -- a number of years down the road maybe. This would be extremely controversial.

Otherwise, the only thing we can do is soft fork in a new signature scheme (like Lamport) and have people voluntarily use it, like Segwit. No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.

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August 07, 2019, 02:49:49 PM
 #22

Post quantum we will have lots of forks. But the quantum upgraded original chain with all the mined coins will be the strongest. Anyone who has the privatekey of an old address can now move their coins and they will be quantum secure. Otherwise they are 'shalecoins' and have no owner and will be 'fracked'. These coins are the reward of their 'frackers'. If some think that the 'shalecoins' should be locked/destroyed, they can use the fork with excluded 'shalecoins'. They are already discussing such things: Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131393.0

No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.
Yes, squatter.
Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active. Thereafter BTC owners will decide, which fork they want to use.
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August 07, 2019, 03:22:16 PM
 #23

Quote
All inevitable technologies like electricity and transistors started off as research efforts that were not even visible to the outside world. But like a distant wave on the horizon, the slow movement belied the impact once it arrived.
But once the quantum wave does arrive, it will be as profoundly powerful to society as the move from abacus to silicon computing.
https://irishtechnews.ie/the-latest-quantum-computing-trends-from-5th-annual-conference-on-quantum-technologies-moscow/

Move your coins from old addresses to make them quantum secure.
'Shalecoins', coins with no owner ' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be 'fracked' in the original chain.
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August 07, 2019, 03:57:24 PM
 #24



Post quantum we will have lots of forks. But the quantum upgraded original chain with all the mined coins will be the strongest. Anyone who has the privatekey of an old address can now move their coins and they will be quantum secure. Otherwise they are 'shalecoins' and have no owner and will be 'fracked'. These coins are the reward of their 'frackers'. If some think that the 'shalecoins' should be locked/destroyed, they can use the fork with excluded 'shalecoins'. They are already discussing such things: Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131393.0

No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.
Yes, squatter.
Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active. Thereafter BTC owners will decide, which fork they want to use.

I have no idea and I just learned it from this thread. Those coins in Satoshi's wallet will then be activated which sooner there might not have forgotten coins after all. I guess we can all say Bitcoin will live on to be 21M in total. Nothings wasted and SAtoshi has really thought all of these will happen one day.
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August 07, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
 #25



Post quantum we will have lots of forks. But the quantum upgraded original chain with all the mined coins will be the strongest. Anyone who has the privatekey of an old address can now move their coins and they will be quantum secure. Otherwise they are 'shalecoins' and have no owner and will be 'fracked'. These coins are the reward of their 'frackers'. If some think that the 'shalecoins' should be locked/destroyed, they can use the fork with excluded 'shalecoins'. They are already discussing such things: Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131393.0

No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.
Yes, squatter.
Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active. Thereafter BTC owners will decide, which fork they want to use.

I have no idea and I just learned it from this thread. Those coins in Satoshi's wallet will then be activated which sooner there might not have forgotten coins after all. I guess we can all say Bitcoin will live on to be 21M in total. Nothings wasted and SAtoshi has really thought all of these will happen one day.

You got it.
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August 07, 2019, 04:47:51 PM
 #26



Post quantum we will have lots of forks. But the quantum upgraded original chain with all the mined coins will be the strongest. Anyone who has the privatekey of an old address can now move their coins and they will be quantum secure. Otherwise they are 'shalecoins' and have no owner and will be 'fracked'. These coins are the reward of their 'frackers'. If some think that the 'shalecoins' should be locked/destroyed, they can use the fork with excluded 'shalecoins'. They are already discussing such things: Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131393.0

No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.
Yes, squatter.
Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active. Thereafter BTC owners will decide, which fork they want to use.

I have no idea and I just learned it from this thread. Those coins in Satoshi's wallet will then be activated which sooner there might not have forgotten coins after all. I guess we can all say Bitcoin will live on to be 21M in total. Nothings wasted and SAtoshi has really thought all of these will happen one day.

That means

2. Satoshi created the greatest prize competition and the privatekeys are somehow within the blockchain. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150688.0

and privatekeys are somehow within the blockchain = quantum computer?
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August 08, 2019, 07:20:43 AM
 #27

]
The only way to prevent those bitcoins from being stolen and re-added to the supply would be to lock/destroy them in a fork. For example, we could implement a fork where coins are destroyed if they aren't moved in n blocks -- a number of years down the road maybe. This would be extremely controversial.

I'm sure it would be controversial, but I'm not so sure as to the degree. From what I can see, Bitcoin is still dominated by people who want to make money first and foremost, so I could see a move like this, which preserves their coins' value, garner a lot of support. There will be some pushback among purists, but how many really are there? Either way, I agree that the community should start drawing up some concrete solutions.

I'm personally in the camp who would prefer that lost coins be left where they are whether they're vulnerable or not, but I won't really mind if they get destroyed either, considering the scale of damage their theft may cause.

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August 08, 2019, 02:40:46 PM
 #28

I'm personally in the camp who would prefer that lost coins be left where they are whether they're vulnerable or not, but I won't really mind if they get destroyed either, considering the scale of damage their theft may cause.

The original chain will remain the strongest chain. If some groups can reproduce the privatekeys of 'shalecoins', it's their reward. They are trying to build a computer in the near future, that wouldn't be built so fast without that incentive. That opportunity accelerates the technology. If there are still some BTC owners with old addresses and remove their coins now, they will be secure. So it's a fair game.

The Bitcoin network is a pure competition network. Only the best technology will be successful here and make it secure. A Bitcoin fork without the old coins would be like another s**tcoin, because it would avoid real competition.
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August 08, 2019, 03:19:35 PM
 #29

No, IBM’s Quantum Computer won’t break Bitcoin, but we should be prepared for one that can.
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0

There will be some pushback among purists, but how many really are there? Either way, I agree that the community should start drawing up some concrete solutions.

There is still no quantum solution in the Bitcoin network because..

Bitcoin is still dominated by people who want to make money first and foremost, so I could see a move like this, which preserves their coins' value, garner a lot of support.
Merit +++


But Bitcoin is about competition and best technology. That should be our task. The big money will come in post quantum.
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August 13, 2019, 01:50:09 PM
 #30

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-quantum-computing-party-hasnt-even-started-yet/
Professor Christopher Monroe:
The Quantum Computing Party Hasn’t Even Started Yet
But your company may already be too late
..
For ours and the other companies building quantum computers, it's an exciting time. It's taken decades of work to learn how to build working machines that can handle a few dozen quantum bits of information (qubits). It will take a few more years of engineering for us to build capacity in the hundreds of qubits, but I am confident we will, and that those computers will deliver on the amazing potential of quantum technology.

https://securityboulevard.com/2019/08/the-race-is-on-crypto-agility-vs-quantum-computing-who-is-ahead/
Each passing day brings the world closer to the exciting reality of powerful quantum computing...
But one thing is foreseeable: along with this greater power, some of today’s foundational crypto algorithms will be broken by quantum computers, making data security in a post-quantum world a top concern...
And although post-quantum is projected to be a few years away, an enterprise must start planning today to be post-quantum ready...


a few years away... $ billions investments...

http://www.washdiplomat.com/PouchArticle/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=785
...Italy, he says, is “attached to the European initiative,” a 1 billion euro investment in quantum research. Other nations are pursuing similar initiatives. The United Kingdom, Japan and Australia have invested upward of $100 million per year in quantum information technology. In 2018, the United States’ National Quantum Initiative Act instituted a $1.2 billion investment into quantum information science. In doing so, the U.S. joined Canada, the European Union and China as a leader in world quantum investment, with respective commitments of over $1 billion.

maybe earlier:

They will develop new quantum technologies:

"Quantum computers will soon outperform classical machines"
"The project is part of the EU’s €1 billion, 10-year Quantum Flagship initiative to kickstart a competitive European industry in quantum technologies."
http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/07/01/quantum-computers-will-soon-outperform-classical-machines/
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0

New quantum computing building block developed by Australian researchers
The quantum building block, which is capable of performing an operation of 0.8 nanoseconds, is around 200 times faster than existing spin-based two-qubit gates in silicon.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-07-19/quantum-computing-silicon-two-qubit-gate/11325424

Forget Qubits — Scientists Just Built a Quantum Gate With Qudits
And they could help usher in the era of the quantum computer.
https://futurism.com/forget-qubits-quantum-scientists-building-qudits

The research team discovered that four qudits had the same power as 20 qubits. What’s more, the qudits were more stable than the qubits.
https://canadianhomesteading.ca/science/quantum-computing-breakthrough-scientists-created-quantum-gates-using-qudits/11458


... and maybe a private group.
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August 13, 2019, 02:08:09 PM
Last edit: August 13, 2019, 02:42:12 PM by serjent05
 #31

Satoshi had already thought of the quantum computers, and the possible decoding of the privatekeys if it became available, but I think, Satoshi as a programmer, he know that Bitcoin security will not stop developing and improving so he do not worry much about this stuff.

I do not know why people think that Bitcoin security will stop as is and too worried about quantum computers.  It maybe a threat but I am sure, Bitcoin developers will find way to level Bitcoin's security up before that happen.

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August 13, 2019, 03:18:16 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2019, 05:47:43 PM by threadsupport
 #32

I do not know why people think that Bitcoin security will stop as is and too worried about quantum computers.  It maybe a threat but I am sure, Bitcoin developers will find way to level Bitcoin's security up before that happen.
That's not an issue. Bitcoin developers have already post quantum solutions.
But there are lots of 'shalecoins', https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 coins with no owner. With quantum computers, these coins will become active and change the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Satoshi had already thought of the quantum computers, and the possible decoding of the privatekeys if it became available, ..
His coins would be quantum secured, if he sent them to P2PKH addresses. But he did not and isn't doing.
2. Satoshi created the greatest prize competition and the privatekeys are somehow within the blockchain. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150688.0

and privatekeys are somehow within the blockchain = quantum computer?

We will get the answer with quantum computers. As soon as possible.
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August 27, 2019, 01:30:02 PM
 #33

Australia's Archer details first stage of room temp quantum chip success
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-archer-details-first-stage-of-room-temp-quantum-chip-success/

Move your coins from old addresses to make them quantum secure.
'Shalecoins', coins with no owner ' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be 'fracked'..


Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active.
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September 09, 2019, 01:33:07 PM
 #34

For reference, there are some promising candidate for quantum resistant cryptography signature, such as :
1. Lamport Signature
2. Lattice-based Cryptography
3. Multivariate-based cryptography

These would be temporary solutions. Therefore they are developing new cryptos.

Postquantum, nobody will be able to prove that he/she/they was/were the owner/s in the old system, because everyone will be able to reproduce the privatekeys of old blockchains.

We will have a quantum secure network.
This will be the new beginning.

edited
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September 09, 2019, 05:24:23 PM
 #35

Today, many cryptocurrency users are horrified to hear the news that cryptocurrency will be defenseless in front of a quantum computer.  There is a lot of news in the information space that many experts in the world of cryptography today are working on a quantum-resistant cryptocurrency in order to remove all risks in the future.  Until now, many have been discussing printed words from Satoshi Nakamoto regarding quantum technologies and cryptocurrencies, but for some reason I have not heard a single word from Craig Wright, who is either an impostor or really is real Satoshi Nakamoto.

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September 13, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
 #36

Quantum computers could arrive sooner if we build them with traditional silicon technology
http://theconversation.com/quantum-computers-could-arrive-sooner-if-we-build-them-with-traditional-silicon-technology-123115

IBM, Fraunhofer partner on German-backed quantum computing research push
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-germany/ibm-fraunhofer-partner-on-german-backed-quantum-computing-research-push-idUSKCN1VV20A

FULLY CONTROLLABLE AND HIGHLY STABLE 10-QUBIT CHIP PAVES WAY FOR LARGER QUANTUM PROCESSOR
https://www.quantaneo.com/Fully-controllable-and-highly-stable-10-qubit-chip-paves-way-for-larger-quantum-processor_a223.html

Imec and NUS to collaborate on chip-based quantum cryptography technology
https://www.imec-int.com/en/articles/imec-and-nus-to-collaborate-on-chip-based-quantum-cryptography-technology
Although one might argue that such a large-scale quantum computer is still some time away, the situation is nevertheless an urgent one..

Move your coins from old addresses to make them quantum secure.
'Shalecoins', coins with no owner ' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be 'fracked'..


Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active.
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September 13, 2019, 04:22:50 PM
 #37

First, nobody knows when a quantum computer will be released and also nobody know how Bitcoin will look like when this is gonna happen.

I think it's way to early to think about this right now. If a quantum computer will go live, imagine that all the other payment systems (banks, PayPal etc) will be affected,  not only Btc.

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September 15, 2019, 05:30:33 AM
 #38

We cannot know about technologies that will be invented in the future. Satoshi Nakamoto did not even know what will happen to cryptocurrency in twenty years, whether it will be applied to this time in the world by people, or not. He said that in twenty years there will be either a lot of transactions in bitcoins, or there will be no transactions. Therefore, even if he could hear about the possible developments of quantum computers, however, he could not know their details, just as we do not know to this day.

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September 17, 2019, 02:13:06 PM
 #39

Don't worry about Bitcoin, a small niche. The world will have BIGGER problems to worry about with the arrival of quantum computers. Hahaha.

The world will be able to fix the quantum issue and implement a quantum secure mode through rewinding, freezing, correcting accounts. But Bitcoin can't and that will lead to forks. We already have two main post quantum 'forks':

1. The original chain with all the coins. The 'shalecoins', https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 coins with no owner, will have new owners as it will be able to move these coins.
The original chain will remain the strongest chain. If some groups can reproduce the privatekeys of 'shalecoins', coins with no owner https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0, it's their reward. They are trying to build a computer in the near future, that wouldn't be built so fast without that incentive. That opportunity accelerates the technology. If there are still some BTC owners -incl. Satoshi- with old addresses and remove their coins now, they will be secure. So it's a fair game. And nobody can change that game: Bitcoin rewards the best technology.

The Bitcoin network is a pure competition network. Only the best technology will be successful here and make it secure. A Bitcoin fork without the old coins would be like another s**tcoin, because it would avoid real competition.

2. A fork without old coins which could be transferred by quantum computers.
(For example: Burn Satoshis coins to end the threat of prices crashing - Paxful Founder https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5177563.0)

Both chains will be upgraded to quantum secure.
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September 17, 2019, 03:48:04 PM
 #40

I believe that he has not literally known about quantum to be specific but Satoshi knew that in future computer like this will be created and might exist

Satoshi is an IT and ofcourse being a computer expert he learn that people mind will progress more in future so by all means he think of quantum existence in the next years (or e we don’t know yet if he has contribution on this creation no body else can answer )

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