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Author Topic: Gear Pricing just becomes more irrational then ever  (Read 889 times)
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sidehack
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August 23, 2019, 07:11:20 PM
 #41

You never did send me your thoughts on that S9 hack either.

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August 24, 2019, 12:26:52 AM
Last edit: August 24, 2019, 03:38:24 AM by frodocooper
 #42

My apologies guys I've been swamped the last couple weeks it seems. Wife started teaching first year and kid goes to school in a different town while we have 1 car atm so I have from 8:30-3pm to make my money , things have been slow for me on bct and BTC in general.

I think your venture sounds awesome!  And if you flat rate them in USA, you'll be on top fast and should snowball from there (at least I hope) I think we can all agree that we need a true fair asic manufacturer. 8TH at 500watts is nice and should give a nice edge.  Being in the states (made or remade in USA) automatically saves us so much money too. 1/2 price shipping and no taxation besides state . I remember you said you broke a leg and got the design/build 606 expedited , seems like when you have downtime the community benefits well. (Stay in good health) with that being said how can we help expedite this process?
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August 24, 2019, 01:53:59 AM
Merited by philipma1957 (2), HagssFIN (2), frodocooper (2), WhyFhy (1)
 #43

At the risk of venturing further off topic...

Right now there's not much to do to help. I'm waiting for the ASIC supplier to get back to me about whether or not I'll get access. If that happens, I figure on starting a hardware dev thread and keeping everyone posted, keeping interest and visibility up, so the source can see clearly that there is plenty of support for the products and they stay feeling good about their decision.

Right now I don't want to say too much, because if that source falls through I have to double back and do something else instead. Cart and horse and all that.

Should probably stop there for now and let this thread get back on topic. I'll let everyone know when there's anything worth knowing.

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nuanicaj
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August 26, 2019, 02:57:44 PM
 #44

The Russians that made the board with Bitfury is listing on their site are stating $3 a chip, maybe you can get a better price from them in bulk.
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August 27, 2019, 05:30:22 PM
 #45

Still pretty high but we have access to 40 units of M20S for September $3795.

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August 27, 2019, 07:22:42 PM
 #46

Still pretty high but we have access to 40 units of M20S for September $3795.

These can be had early september at $3100
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August 27, 2019, 07:29:21 PM
 #47

These can be had early september at $3100

Where? Links would be nice as I haven't seen anything near that price. Closest I saw was 3950 shipping within 10 days.

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August 27, 2019, 09:40:18 PM
Last edit: August 28, 2019, 03:34:10 AM by frodocooper
 #48

Possible a reseller who pre ordered the initial September batch has a lower price. This is a bargained price for available units at current market rate.

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August 27, 2019, 10:37:59 PM
Last edit: August 28, 2019, 03:34:25 AM by frodocooper
 #49

Nah the late Aug batch was delayed so it is now early september and thats the pre order I purchased bought two one at $2984 shipped and another $3084 shipped.
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August 27, 2019, 10:46:49 PM
 #50

Still pretty high but we have access to 40 units of M20S for September $3795.

does this include all import taxes?

This is a secondary account .
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August 28, 2019, 12:53:54 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2019, 04:23:08 AM by frodocooper
 #51

does this include all import taxes?

No, unfortunately.

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philipma1957
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August 28, 2019, 04:56:03 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2019, 04:23:51 AM by frodocooper
 #52

too bad  so 3795 x 1.276 = 4842  to a legit usa buyer.

jeesh lets say they come sept 1 vs sept 30

and they do 68th at 3350 watts.

about 80 kwatts a day

at 1 cent power that is  80 cents
at 2 cent power that is 1.60
at 3 cent power that is 2.40
at 4 cent power that is 3.20
at 5 cent power that is 4.00
at 6 cent power that is 4.80

68 x .00002416 = 0.00164288 btc or 17 a day - 4 = 13 a day

4842/13 = 372 days  So I am still facing gear that is cost prohibited

but even in china  it would be 3900/13 = 300 days at 5 cent  and

3900/14.6 = 267 days at 3 cent.  this is a hard sell.

5 s9's are 1700  do 70 th or  0.0016912 btc a day  or 17.28 usd a day and burn 156 kwatts at 3 cents that is 4.68

so 17.28-4.68 = 12.60 a day

so 1700/12.60 = 135 days.       and only 1700 out of pocket vs 3900.

I just don't see the pricing as working.

I have handled all this gear.  it all breaks down at about 10% a year.

I hate having so much idle power  only 110 of 150 kwatts filled. But  companies are holding the line at over priced items.

I will wait till the inno ships it is due to ship by this Saturday. lets see if they ship on time.

Once that unit arrives I will decide what to do next.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
NotFuzzyWarm
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August 28, 2019, 05:11:15 PM
 #53

So what's wrong with going for the A1041's from Blokforge? Ja not as efficient but -- faster delivery and reasonable pricing per TH. Then there is the side benefit of the individual PSU's not being so damn hungry/fire hazards...

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philipma1957
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August 28, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
 #54

So what's wrong with going for the A1041's from Blokforge? Ja not as efficient but -- faster delivery and reasonable pricing per TH. Then there is the side benefit of the individual PSU's not being so damn hungry/fire hazards...

buysolar has been talking with steve from canaan to get 2 or more 1066 or 1067

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 29, 2019, 08:51:58 AM
 #55

Considering timing the 1066 is a great product to look at.

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August 29, 2019, 03:22:24 PM
 #56

Think things will change much based on a recent BTC price of $9526/coin? I kinda wonder if there is now FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) on the manufacturing side (not charging enough for new gear).
philipma1957
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August 29, 2019, 03:58:24 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2019, 04:31:23 AM by frodocooper
 #57

Well the prices are nuts.

Bitmain  had s17 pros as low as 1750  with under a 1 month wait.
pangolin had m20s as low as 2050 with a 60 day wait.

Everything over that is excess profit taking  on the part of bitmain or  microbt.

Yeah coins  were 4600 when the gear sold at those prices.
Coins are now 9500.

But the diff in april 2019 was  7
the diff is now 10.2

forget trump tax which has simply killed us off in the USA.

take canada 5%  import.      the  s17 pro is now 3950 I saw a listing for it yesterday.

so  9500/4600 x 7/10.2 = 1.417  x 1750 = 2480  asking 3900   that is a flat out gouging of 1420  it is not justified based on coin prices and diff prices.

102 new Antminer S17 for sale in Canada. In Stock. Ready to Ship.

76 are Pro version / 24 are non-Pro version

Price: $3900 USD each

MOQ: 25 unit minimum order quantity...

now the reseller has a tiny broker fee (maybe 100 a unit)  so I don't blame him.

"all prices are out of line. at current coin price and sched diff."

avalon 1066 is fairly decent but s17 and m20s  are jacked way higher then they should be.

Frankly I simply need say this is bad for business.

if you use the 1.41 factor the s17 should be only 2480
the m20s should be only  2850

with  a quick ship in effect.

I am hoping buysolar  gets us a few 1066's

I am hoping my inno t3 50 ships by august 31st.

Any guesses on that shipping on time?  I think not but maybe they surprise me.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 29, 2019, 09:11:53 PM
 #58

I got two m20s for $6140 shipped will be sent early next week no trump tax
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August 29, 2019, 10:18:36 PM
 #59

When did you order them. The discussion here pretty much surrounds what you can currently get, you tend to pop in with half the information. 6140 sounds like a number you might have paid in June.

In regards to the no trumptax, you either aren't having them delivered to the US, or you have made a poor choice in publicly stating you are attempting to circumvent tariffs. Especially considering a few members seem to have been able to dig up most of your personal information that is public.

Considering timing the 1066 is a great product to look at.

These do look like a nice option pricewise. I'm hoping there is a LPM that improves efficiency or that the current numbers are on the high side. Either way it's a piece that would work for me if they are available at the end of October.

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August 30, 2019, 03:31:13 PM
Last edit: August 31, 2019, 10:30:16 AM by frodocooper
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 #60

Checking out bitmain store as I do once in a while, I can agree with philipma1957, the prices are totally nuts.

To me, it seems like bitmain is going the way of big electronics producers and is launching tens of models with a slightly different number and some slightly different specs just to fool you into thinking one of them is a bargain.
What the hell is with those things:

Antminer S9k-13.5TH/s   Hashrate: 13.5TH/s   Shipping date: 20-30, Sep. 2019   $310.00
Antminer S9k-14TH/s      Hashrate: 14TH/s      Shipping in 7                                $464.00
Antminer S9j-14.5TH/s    Hashrate: 14.5TH/s   Shipping in 7                                $479.00

I'm right now looking for 20 minutes at those prices and I really have the impression they are f with us

So if you choose the s9k with 14th which would whip on the 7 you pay 50% more than the s9k with 13.5th that ships barely two weeks after?
Obviously the difference doesn't come from the hashrate since with just 15$ you can get 0.5 th more also on the s9j...

Not even mentioning the s9 se which they claim has new generation chips but the efficiency is all over the place and not matching any other unit.

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