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Author Topic: Binance Hackers Bombard Chipmixer to Launder at Least 4,836 BTC  (Read 6345 times)
BitHodler
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August 11, 2019, 08:09:35 PM
 #21

Muh, mixers are just stupid. Its only good for criminal use. No decent user needs that at all. U might need to trace back all ur coin txs in case...
I'm not a criminal. I for example use a mixer when I need to make a purchase in Bitcoin and buy these coins through my local exchange. It gives me a peace of mind knowing that it provides me a layer of privacy I didn't have before.

Exchanges increasingly start to look at what you do with your coins after withdrawing them-- their banking partners can demand them to boot you off their platform, and they will definitely not go against that.

An example is Coinbase that has booted hundreds or maybe even thousands of users, all because they withdrew coins to a service their banking partners don't agree with. Mixers come in very handy here.

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August 11, 2019, 09:10:59 PM
 #22

An example is Coinbase that has booted hundreds or maybe even thousands of users, all because they withdrew coins to a service their banking partners don't agree with. Mixers come in very handy here.

Just wait until exchanges decide that mixers are the service they don't agree with and start booting users who use them. You may not be able to trace the coins but you can see that they went through a mixer.

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.
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August 11, 2019, 09:37:13 PM
 #23

An example is Coinbase that has booted hundreds or maybe even thousands of users, all because they withdrew coins to a service their banking partners don't agree with. Mixers come in very handy here.

Just wait until exchanges decide that mixers are the service they don't agree with and start booting users who use them. You may not be able to trace the coins but you can see that they went through a mixer.

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.

So far we have seen two mixing services succumb to the pressure of the government. Of course authorities will do their best to shutdown Chipmixer, however I do believed that Chipmixer is not stupid enough to let that happen to them.

Definitely they have been monitoring everything but I doubt that they would cooperate unless the authorities have all the information that they indeed Chipmixer got all that 4836 BTC and where it went. But if ever Chipmixer's closes, there will be another services that is going to pop, that how businesses evolved.

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BitHodler
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August 11, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
 #24

Just wait until exchanges decide that mixers are the service they don't agree with and start booting users who use them. You may not be able to trace the coins but you can see that they went through a mixer.
That would really suck, and affect the service initially, but I'm sure that mixers will find a way to make their mixing process look more like an organic form of economical activity commonly taking place on the network already.

The thing however is that you can't just ban mixers simply because you can't prove that the coins have gone through a mixer. If you boot someone just based on the assumption that he used a mixer, that's very bad business.

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.
Every mixer is unfortunately a target, but the 'positive' side of all these agencies chasing mixers is that the mixers are pretty much forced to become even more anonymous (relatively speaking) than they already are.

Result is that mixers will be more difficult to shut down and that we as privacy respecting users can still use them to get rid of taint.

BSV is not the real Bcash. Bcash is the real Bcash.
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August 11, 2019, 09:54:30 PM
Merited by gentlemand (1)
 #25

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.

The moment agencies figure out that there is a new mixer in town, they are trying their best to get it to shut down. In other words, agencies of all sorts have been after ChipMixer and other mixers for a long time now. The weakest ones have been taken out unfortunately, where the strongest ones will gain more dominance and thus have more financial resources to not fall victim to governmental raids.

The long term problem I see is that with more advanced tools to their disposal, agencies will be getting better at what they do. They are catching up real fast, while most people here believe governments are still ignorant and don't understand Bitcoin. They just play stupid. They know what's going on.
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August 11, 2019, 10:46:23 PM
 #26

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.

The moment agencies figure out that there is a new mixer in town, they are trying their best to get it to shut down. In other words, agencies of all sorts have been after ChipMixer and other mixers for a long time now. The weakest ones have been taken out unfortunately, where the strongest ones will gain more dominance and thus have more financial resources to not fall victim to governmental raids.

The long term problem I see is that with more advanced tools to their disposal, agencies will be getting better at what they do. They are catching up real fast, while most people here believe governments are still ignorant and don't understand Bitcoin. They just play stupid. They know what's going on.

Very astute deduction. Which is why I don’t send any coins into any mixers.

What will happen is mixers will be considered tainted coins by many different governments.

So it would be very wise to not send a coin into their accounts.

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August 11, 2019, 10:53:24 PM
 #27

Sooner or later some agencies will try to shut down chipmixer. I hope they have a backup plan for that.

The moment agencies figure out that there is a new mixer in town, they are trying their best to get it to shut down. In other words, agencies of all sorts have been after ChipMixer and other mixers for a long time now. The weakest ones have been taken out unfortunately, where the strongest ones will gain more dominance and thus have more financial resources to not fall victim to governmental raids.

The long term problem I see is that with more advanced tools to their disposal, agencies will be getting better at what they do. They are catching up real fast, while most people here believe governments are still ignorant and don't understand Bitcoin. They just play stupid. They know what's going on.

Very astute deduction. Which is why I don’t send any coins into any mixers.

What will happen is mixers will be considered tainted coins by many different governments.

So it would be very wise to not send a coin into their accounts.
That and you're getting flagged for audit if any of them do keep logs and algorithms that get seized as part of a plea deal with the government that takes them down. Seriously even for non malicious reasons I wouldn't use a mixer, you are probably getting tainted coins and exchanges has proven to seize them before on behalf of governments.

Chipmixer might be in the hot seat right now but I guess they are doing some contingencies before their dreaded situation happens. They should know that sooner or later, they will face such situation like this and they should be prepared for it. Now, that they are in the limelight, they should do a swift action on this matter.
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August 11, 2019, 11:11:12 PM
 #28

At least 4,836 Bitcoin (BTC) of stolen from Binance exchange in May 2019 was laundered through crypto mixing service Chipmixer.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-hackers-bombard-chipmixer-to-launder-at-least-4-836-btc


How sure and reliable is this information? With regard to the fact that cointelegraph posted this article doesn't really guarantee that the bitcoins were the ones stolen from binance. I think we should take our time to further analyse this info well before drawing possible conclusions.     
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August 11, 2019, 11:20:08 PM
 #29

At least 4,836 Bitcoin (BTC) of stolen from Binance exchange in May 2019 was laundered through crypto mixing service Chipmixer.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-hackers-bombard-chipmixer-to-launder-at-least-4-836-btc
How sure and reliable is this information? With regard to the fact that cointelegraph posted this article doesn't really guarantee that the bitcoins were the ones stolen from binance. I think we should take our time to further analyse this info well before drawing possible conclusions.      

So do you think that cointelegraph wasn't a reliable source of information?
The news was already on other bitcoin news site.

Try to read this also mate.
https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2019/08/150394-chipmixer-bitcoin-tumbler-used-to-launder-funds-stolen-in-80-million-usd-hack-on-binance/
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August 11, 2019, 11:32:54 PM
 #30

Kind of an abuse of the chipmixer, an attempt to further obscure his identity and we may get stiffer measures from government authorities to attack whatever useful tool they can lay their hands because of abuses like this. It also underscores why the demand for 'virgin bitcoin' has been on the increase in recent months
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August 11, 2019, 11:35:23 PM
 #31

Muh, mixers are just stupid. Its only good for criminal use. No decent user needs that at all. U might need to trace back all ur coin txs in case...
Somehow the main purpose of a chipmixer is being abused here. It may have come useful if one wanted to conceal his identity for legitimate reasons - I know that sounds criminal in many instances but not in all
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August 11, 2019, 11:48:02 PM
 #32

Let's not be so fast to assume facts, and take the PR with a grain of salt. The title and article is structured in a very clickbait like structure, but the true story is far from what is being represented.

Bad news for Chipmixer, they are the only legit established large sized mixer left after the closer of many. This move would certainly bring them in for investigation as it's a criminal case.
This could lead to the end of bitcoin mixing services and enforce more regulations on exchanges and tradings.
Not really. Chipmixer doesn't know anything about the criminals, there is no KYC that is forced upon them and then only thing available to them is the information available on the blockchain.

Most of you are saying it's bad for ChipMixer but I would say the opposite. It's a good opportunity to prove how robust is the mixing process. In the end, it will make ChipMixer's reputation stronger and attract more people who are used to use BTC tumblers.
Such articles are helpful


It will not be first one taken down and organizers get big penalties.  This can happen to anything that have central point of failure. Even cryptocurencies that uses coinjoin to make their transactions opaque.

Big penalties? Have you ever see a mixer webmaster going in a justice court? What the hell are you talking about with Coinjoin
I agree - this will be proof of how solid the service is they are offering, and I doubt anyone in the Chipmixer organization will ever be forced to show up to court.

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August 11, 2019, 11:52:17 PM
 #33

If Chipmixer operates the way they claim, they don't have more data about the hacker than can already be extracted from blockchain analysis.
yes, there should be no usable data left in ChipMixer system to link the ins and outs
but ChipMixer system possibly still maintain all previous deposit addresses (HD wallet)
and it can be used as proof that chipmixer did receive those hacked coins

Most of you are saying it's bad for ChipMixer but I would say the opposite. It's a good opportunity to prove how robust is the mixing process. In the end, it will make ChipMixer's reputation stronger and attract more people who are used to use BTC tumblers.
Chipmixer might be in the hot seat right now ...
I agree, for now it certainly draws heat to ChipMixer and may reduce its users
but in a few months if nothing happens to them, this would boost ChipMixer's reputation

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August 12, 2019, 01:17:48 AM
 #34

This is bad for Chipmixer.  If the authority decided to investigate on this and targeted Chipmixer to shutdown regardless of the investigation, they can easily do it since they have a proof in their hand that a mixing service had been used to launder a hacked BTC.  I wonder why Chipmixer did not suspend those transactions.., Did they failed to track that those BTC were hacked?
I can only speculate that maybe they did not know that the coins did come from the Binance hack. Or they wittingly know it but just decided to mix it anyways, at the end of the end its all business.

Bad news for Chipmixer, they are the only legit established large sized mixer left after the closer of many. This move would certainly bring them in for investigation as it's a criminal case.
This could lead to the end of bitcoin mixing services and enforce more regulations on exchanges and tradings.
What do you mean by the 'only' one legit mixer? There are still a lot of tumbling services around. But I would have to agree that it bring attention to them that could affect their services negatively. If they are going to be investigated, what will they give to the agencies? They don't back up any logs for that matter  Plus they give you fresh new mint coins as well (as far as I know.)

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August 12, 2019, 02:25:52 AM
 #35

If Chipmixer operates the way they claim, they don't have more data about the hacker than can already be extracted from blockchain analysis.
yes, there should be no usable data left in ChipMixer system to link the ins and outs
but ChipMixer system possibly still maintain all previous deposit addresses (HD wallet)
and it can be used as proof that chipmixer did receive those hacked coins
The only information Chipmixer has are the input addresses, which isn't a lot of information, and due to the large transaction size, it'll likely be found out anyway by the authorities. The bigger the amount is you are trying to mix, the easier it is to track.

I agree, for now it certainly draws heat to ChipMixer and may reduce its users
but in a few months if nothing happens to them, this would boost ChipMixer's reputation
Let's see what happens to them, they haven't been shut down when the other 2 large mixers got shut down, so I doubt they will face anything bad from the authorities. This will just showcase their strengths.

This is bad for Chipmixer.  If the authority decided to investigate on this and targeted Chipmixer to shutdown regardless of the investigation, they can easily do it since they have a proof in their hand that a mixing service had been used to launder a hacked BTC.  I wonder why Chipmixer did not suspend those transactions.., Did they failed to track that those BTC were hacked?
I can only speculate that maybe they did not know that the coins did come from the Binance hack. Or they wittingly know it but just decided to mix it anyways, at the end of the end its all business.

Bad news for Chipmixer, they are the only legit established large sized mixer left after the closer of many. This move would certainly bring them in for investigation as it's a criminal case.
This could lead to the end of bitcoin mixing services and enforce more regulations on exchanges and tradings.
What do you mean by the 'only' one legit mixer? There are still a lot of tumbling services around. But I would have to agree that it bring attention to them that could affect their services negatively. If they are going to be investigated, what will they give to the agencies? They don't back up any logs for that matter  Plus they give you fresh new mint coins as well (as far as I know.)

I doubt they monitor their transactions all the time and would be able to know the coins are from the Binance hack. Chipmixer is the most popular mixer now, and it'll be a shame for them to shut down - other mixers are still fairly new or just don't work as well as Chipmixer.

Smiley
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August 12, 2019, 02:51:31 AM
 #36

Indeed, for sure Chipmixer will cooperate to the authority to trace the hacker.  I believe Chipmixer will protect their name and will have a wise decision regarding this incident.  Mixing service have records of their transaction though they keep it private.

Chipmixer is in a bad spot right now, if they give the data to authorities, they will lose some customers, both criminals and just people who don't trust governments. If they don't cooperate, they will risk getting closed, and they will have reputation of a service that launders dirty money, and some users might be scared that the coins that they get will be tainted.

I don't think that they have any real choice here. If the feds are involved, then they need to cooperate with them. Else, they will just get destroyed, like BTC-e and numerous other cryptocurrency ventures. If they could limit the damage, by giving only a part of the information (like past 3 months data), then they may be able to retain a fraction of the user-base. But at the same time, there is no guarantee that the feds will allow Chipmixer to continue its operations, as now it is proven that criminals are making use of its services.

Also, it is quite possible that the feds will push for mandatory KYC verification for the Chipmixer users, which defeats the very purpose of using their services. I am feeling quite skeptical about them, and I have a feeling that they probably won't survive for long (irrespective of whether they are ready to cooperate with the FBI or not). 
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August 12, 2019, 02:53:43 AM
 #37

If we follow Clain’s report on their website (https://blog.clain.io/binance-hack-2019-deep-dive-into-the-money-laundering/) it does talk quite a lot in terms of likelihood. If fact, of the 4836 BTCs it has allegedly identified as being sent to Chipmixer, it only (currently) used a stronger more assertive vocabulary for 183 BTCs, stating that those are “surely” ("certainly", I figure they mean) identified as hacker funds, in contrast with  814 BTCs termed as “likely”.

Semantics is important, and although they may well have a good trail on something, when performing an accusation of this nature it is important to be certain and not likely certain.

Interestingly enough, back in March 2019, Clain studied the hack on a Japanese exchange called Zaif (see https://blog.clain.io/applying-machine-learning-for-thorough-investigation-of-zaif-hack/). Their investigation leads them to believe that, out of the 5957 BTCs stolen, 875 went through Chipmixer’s tumbler, and at least 1549 (mixed or not) ended up in Binance deposit addresses, with amounts below the KYC threshold of 2 BTCs used by Binance for withdrawals...


to be honest this article looks to me like another chain analysis service that is trying to advertise their services and take some customers to make money. otherwise all of their statements on their website looks like pure guesswork which they give validity to by using buzzwords such as "network science" and "machine learning".

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August 12, 2019, 03:04:11 AM
 #38



I am amazed why those hackers decided to use the Chipmixer coin-mixing service when they are aware that the transactions can still be traced. I am hoping that there can be an official investigation to this and something can be done especially in tracking these people who are the real scumbags of this industry. As to Chipmixer, the last among the many, let's hope this can never lead to its own downfall.
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August 12, 2019, 03:17:45 AM
 #39

If we follow Clain’s report on their website (https://blog.clain.io/binance-hack-2019-deep-dive-into-the-money-laundering/) it does talk quite a lot in terms of likelihood. If fact, of the 4836 BTCs it has allegedly identified as being sent to Chipmixer, it only (currently) used a stronger more assertive vocabulary for 183 BTCs, stating that those are “surely” ("certainly", I figure they mean) identified as hacker funds, in contrast with  814 BTCs termed as “likely”.

Semantics is important, and although they may well have a good trail on something, when performing an accusation of this nature it is important to be certain and not likely certain.

Interestingly enough, back in March 2019, Clain studied the hack on a Japanese exchange called Zaif (see https://blog.clain.io/applying-machine-learning-for-thorough-investigation-of-zaif-hack/). Their investigation leads them to believe that, out of the 5957 BTCs stolen, 875 went through Chipmixer’s tumbler, and at least 1549 (mixed or not) ended up in Binance deposit addresses, with amounts below the KYC threshold of 2 BTCs used by Binance for withdrawals...


to be honest this article looks to me like another chain analysis service that is trying to advertise their services and take some customers to make money. otherwise all of their statements on their website looks like pure guesswork which they give validity to by using buzzwords such as "network science" and "machine learning".

This could be the case, we are not sure why they singlehandedly mention chipmixer, hmmm. And probably just promoting their service and what why to shill for your company than mentioning in your investigation one of the best mixing services right now. This could be just a promotion for all we know.

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August 12, 2019, 03:21:50 AM
 #40

This is bad for Chipmixer.  If the authority decided to investigate on this and targeted Chipmixer to shutdown regardless of the investigation, they can easily do it since they have a proof in their hand that a mixing service had been used to launder a hacked BTC.  I wonder why Chipmixer did not suspend those transactions.., Did they failed to track that those BTC were hacked?

That's the purpose (to anonymize transactions) chipmixer is here for, isn't it?

And I doubt, chipmixer would suspend those transactions, since it would go against the purpose it's providing.

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