BitMEX alternatives?

[jackg]

Hong Kong is now in the legal jurisdiction of China (I think) - the UK returned it to them...

The Chinese government seem very volatile about cryptocurrency markets (sometimes they hate them, then bitmain starts to move and they get worried and bring them back or whatever happened)... I have to sayt my issues with bybit were that it doesn't have the litecoin/bitcoin pair and it's very over advertised to the point where they may find it more profitable to exit scam than people trading (they also don't display the fees they'll charge when you make an order on their site which has started to greatly annoy me).

Bitmex has it's issues, I'm not sure what yours were or if it's just being in the US but sometimes things didn't work properly - you get liquidated too early and whenever you try to put in a trade when it's volatile or even just moving a bit you start to be unable to place orders...

I spotted there was a release of a decentralised leverage trading exchange on this forum but I didn't get chance to take a look at it, it seems that decentralising or adding more servers is the way to go for bitmex so maybe once they've evolved a bit the decentralised exchanges will be better but no one seems to make a DEX mobile app.

[leowonderful]

Slippage is absolutely brutal with Bitmex market stop losses- limit stops almost never work, and even market stops in profit after fees often end up in a loss if price is swinging fast in one direction or the other, unfortunately. Any leveraged trading sites similar to Bitmex including Bybit will likely require KYC for American traders in the future as well, and if you really want to trade on these sites, a VPN's the best way to go. Your ping's generally not increased by a whole lot with VPNs, and a simple Canadian VPN (no Quebec IPs, though) should be enough.

I spotted there was a release of a decentralised leverage trading exchange on this forum but I didn't get chance to take a look at it, it seems that decentralising or adding more servers is the way to go for bitmex so maybe once they've evolved a bit the decentralised exchanges will be better but no one seems to make a DEX mobile app.

Interesting, if you find the link to the exchange you're talking about, it'd be great if you could drop it here but there might be problems with liquidity for the exchange you're talking about initially after launch which could cause problems with trading. Not a big fan of decentralized exchanges as of right now, and most of them don't seem to be very popular but I'm always looking for something new.

[300pips]

BaseFEX:
The chart and the order book is not as good as Deribit and Bybit but seems, like someone said, still acceptable. Wide range of altcoin pairs that I need. What I found I love is, unlike a lot of other exchanges, they don’t ask for your email address before you ask questions in the live chat while I don’t want to be bombarded with junk emails.
To my surprise, THEY HAVE THE CEO ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS IN THE LIVE CHAT. I mean in the crypto space this is damn impressive considering 60% of the time people won’t even know the CEO’s name. In sharp contrast to their competition, Jess has been rather forthcoming about where they base - registered in Seychelles and operate mostly from China. They also claimed they haven’t had any downtimes for two months so let me at least give them the credit that they seem to score high where Bybit and Deribit are lacking.
However, their trading UI has some details that I am not really comfortable with. It seems they are trying to make a more intuitive UI but sometimes the needed intuition does not come naturally. I had to have Jess instructed me on where to set a few things.
I haven’t deposited yet but I will. I plan to see how things go from there. Seems like a legitimate, hard-working, smaller team who are proud of what they do, and how they do it.

Bitmax and a few others:
I need an American-friendly exchange that offers altcoin pairs and high leverages. So I didn’t bother.

[exstasie]

BaseFEX:
The chart and the order book is not as good as Deribit and Bybit but seems, like someone said, still acceptable.

Bitmax and a few others:
I need an American-friendly exchange that offers altcoin pairs and high leverages. So I didn’t bother.

It doesn't seem like BaseFEX is US-friendly either. They might allow US-based IP addresses but this is posted on their registration page:

Currently, BaseFEX does not support users from following regions: United States, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, China, and Crimea.

Back to square one?

Volume on Kumex's XBTUSDM contract isn't great yet, and I think that's their only market for now after launching a few weeks ago. They appear to allow US residents.

[jackg]

I was going to pm as I'm not sure on this one but I was checking cex.io yesterday and they offer up to 10x leverage trading so it might be one to look at (I have no idea if they accept us customers though)...

[iamsether]

Hong Kong is now in the legal jurisdiction of China (I think) - the UK returned it to them...

The Chinese government seem very volatile about cryptocurrency markets (sometimes they hate them, then bitmain starts to move and they get worried and bring them back or whatever happened)... I have to sayt my issues with bybit were that it doesn't have the litecoin/bitcoin pair and it's very over advertised to the point where they may find it more profitable to exit scam than people trading (they also don't display the fees they'll charge when you make an order on their site which has started to greatly annoy me).

Bitmex has it's issues, I'm not sure what yours were or if it's just being in the US but sometimes things didn't work properly - you get liquidated too early and whenever you try to put in a trade when it's volatile or even just moving a bit you start to be unable to place orders...

I spotted there was a release of a decentralised leverage trading exchange on this forum but I didn't get chance to take a look at it, it seems that decentralising or adding more servers is the way to go for bitmex so maybe once they've evolved a bit the decentralised exchanges will be better but no one seems to make a DEX mobile app.

1. HK is its own jurisdiction and bybit does not base in HK either. Bybit primarily base in Shanghai, China, according to my linkedin research.

2. This convenient ‘Chinese government volitable about crypto’ excuse is completely out of touch with reality whatsoever. These days the Chinese authority sees cryptocurrencies in a positive light.

Many things in China started as a grey area, but once it brings benefits, be it social stability or employment rate, the authority will happily accept it, and even support it. Crypto, as my Chinese friend believes, is getting to this 2nd stage. Don’t you know that the People’s Bank of China has a Digital Currency Research Lab and is about to introduce the first central-bank-backed cryptocurrency?

Even during that 2017 crackdown, many legitimate crypto teams just moved their business registration to somewhere offshore, while the majority of their Chinese operation remained intact. Huobi is still there. OKex is still there. Kucoin is still there. The crypto industry is still there and vividly alive.

3. So why would small-time bybit worry about getting arrested and therefore choose to misrepresent themselves?

It probably has nothing to do with any local regulation, and has everything to do with their real plan. My Chinese friend confirmed bybit has almost zero Chinese customer base, which I also confirmed on Similarweb. Now I feel it all adds up - they are afraid of being prosecuted like some of their exit scam precursors e.g. PlusToken, EtherDelta and HeroChain, if they have many local Chinese victims. So they made the deliberate decision to scam people from other countries that the Chinese authority can not care less lol.

Source:
https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrency-in-china-over-the-counter-under-the-table
https://www.coindesk.com/is-chinas-digital-fiat-a-cryptocurrency-heres-what-we-know

[bitcub]

BaseFEX:
The chart and the order book is not as good as Deribit and Bybit but seems, like someone said, still acceptable.

Bitmax and a few others:
I need an American-friendly exchange that offers altcoin pairs and high leverages. So I didn’t bother.

It doesn't seem like BaseFEX is US-friendly either. They might allow US-based IP addresses but this is posted on their registration page:

Currently, BaseFEX does not support users from following regions: United States, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, China, and Crimea.

Back to square one?

Volume on Kumex's XBTUSDM contract isn't great yet, and I think that's their only market for now after launching a few weeks ago. They appear to allow US residents.

The core of this series of ‘no American allowed’ events is the fact that SEC and CFTC think any futures exchange operating outside US shall not be allowed to accommodate US residents. In their eyes, this market can only be reserved for regulated, taxable US companies such as CBOE. I figure IRS will also have access to all the KYC info as well as all the trading records.

So it is not about who says what in their TOS because under US law they all should ban US traders. They just put things there to please US regulators who are fond of long-arm jurisdiction. However, in reality, they may unspokenly welcome US traders. What really matters here is how much risk they are willing to take, and withstand pressure from US regulators.

I can say from my own experience that BaseFEX doesn’t ban US traders atm regardless of what they say in their TOS, and I learned from friends that KuMEX neither does but liquidity isn't good there. And correction on my previous comment: Deribit now bans US IPs.

[exstasie]

The core of this series of ‘no American allowed’ events is the fact that SEC and CFTC think any futures exchange operating outside US shall not be allowed to accommodate US residents. In their eyes, this market can only be reserved for regulated, taxable US companies such as CBOE. I figure IRS will also have access to all the KYC info as well as all the trading records.

So it is not about who says what in their TOS because under US law they all should ban US traders. They just put things there to please US regulators who are fond of long-arm jurisdiction. However, in reality, they may unspokenly welcome US traders. What really matters here is how much risk they are willing to take, and withstand pressure from US regulators.

I can say from my own experience that BaseFEX doesn’t ban US traders atm regardless of what they say in their TOS, and I learned from friends that KuMEX neither does but liquidity isn't good there. And correction on my previous comment: Deribit now bans US IPs.

No doubt, I've been trading from the US on a number of platforms where I'm technically banned. Bitmex and all these derivatives exchanges know they are tempting the CFTC to crawl up their ass if they aren't careful. In fact, the CFTC is already investigating Bitmex for allowing Americans.

Even those who are tacitly allowing US traders right now should be expected to clamp down more in the future in this environment. I just don't want to get my funds frozen. My biggest worry is that non-KYC exchanges will eventually begin banning VPN usage. That'll be the end of all these shenanigans for us Americans.

Kumex has definitely been disappointing. Hopefully they (and Kucoin) see an influx of volume when Binance formally bans US traders next month, but I'm not sure whether that'll really happen.

[cryptoadvocate]

Bybit is superior to Bitmex in a lot of ways (order submission, customer support, etc.) though if your main purpose is to avoid the region ban, not going to make any difference.

I believe Kraken offers margin trading for US residents, no? Bitmax is worth a shot as well, though hasn't been around as long so doesn't have quite the same track record.

[exstasie]

I believe Kraken offers margin trading for US residents, no?

Leverage is capped at 5x and requires KYC. It's the best "legit" option we have, but it's no replacement for Bitmex or Deribit.

Bitmax is worth a shot as well, though hasn't been around as long so doesn't have quite the same track record.

It looks like the maximum leverage is 10x (which is okay for me) but liquidity is really bad. Check out this wick down to the $8,000s a few days ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178197.0

I wouldn't recommend margin trading with such thin order books. Same problem at Kumex......only safe for really small positions.

[Harlot]

The crypto exchange you are looking for is non-existent in your case. That's why we are already seeing a lot of crypto exchanges pulling out of their U.S. operations as they are not allowed to operate their exchange internationally without the U.S. approving it like Binance voluntarily suspending their operations in that country, the ones who are cleared to run their operations in the U.S. are required to ask KYC from their clients as part of their requirements issued by the SEC. It's either sacrifice your non KYC requirement or don't really be involve in leverage trading at all.

[cryptoadvocate]

I believe Kraken offers margin trading for US residents, no?

Leverage is capped at 5x and requires KYC. It's the best "legit" option we have, but it's no replacement for Bitmex or Deribit.

Bitmax is worth a shot as well, though hasn't been around as long so doesn't have quite the same track record.

It looks like the maximum leverage is 10x (which is okay for me) but liquidity is really bad. Check out this wick down to the $8,000s a few days ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178197.0

I wouldn't recommend margin trading with such thin order books. Same problem at Kumex......only safe for really small positions.

Agreed, but at this point the options are:

1) Go with Kraken, do KYC
2) Use a VPN, use Bitmex or ByBit
3) The only alternatives are less established which by default means order books are going to be thinner

[iamsether]

Bybit is superior to Bitmex in a lot of ways (order submission, customer support, etc.) though if your main purpose is to avoid the region ban, not going to make any difference.

I believe Kraken offers margin trading for US residents, no? Bitmax is worth a shot as well, though hasn't been around as long so doesn't have quite the same track record.

2) Use a VPN, use Bitmex or ByBit

Paid shill alert. 'cryptoadvocate' consciously embedded a bybit referral link while bashing other exchanges and intentionally neglecting Deribit that has much better track record and thicker order book. That ‘pkoz6’ in the link is probably his/her bybit id.
Bybit should be called shill-bit instead.

[FlipPoint]

What do you think of this exchange - bitfinex? Can this be used as an alternative that the topic starter is looking for? Here https://revain.org/exchanges/bitfinex in the reviews write that KYC is not required, if prefer cryptocurrency trading. Is this really so? It is difficult to find exchanges without KYC or there are restrictions on the deposit now.

[exstasie]

What do you think of this exchange - bitfinex? Can this be used as an alternative that the topic starter is looking for? Here in the reviews write that KYC is not required, if prefer cryptocurrency trading. Is this really so? It is difficult to find exchanges without KYC or there are restrictions on the deposit now.

This is their FAQ about verification: https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003424209-Verification-Frequently-Asked-Questions

If you deposit/withdraw crypto only, you can trade and lend without KYC. If you deposit/withdraw fiat money (or stablecoins like USDT), KYC is required. Keep this little tidbit in mind though:

However, as per our Terms of Service, we reserve the right to ask for KYC information at any point in time if your account activity raises flags.

They began exercising that right earlier this year so be careful!
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/by15zs/bitfinex_is_locking_accounts/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/bzeh9t/warning_bitfinex_kyc_scam_is_in_full_play/

[300pips]

They began exercising that right earlier this year so be careful!
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/by15zs/bitfinex_is_locking_accounts/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/bzeh9t/warning_bitfinex_kyc_scam_is_in_full_play/

Thanks a lot. 3.3x is way below my range of needs so never considered Bitfinex in the first place. So was Binance.

Update regarding my experience on BaseFEX:
I have been trading there for a week. With $700 BTC deposit, I ended up $1600 BTC in my balance before my withdrawal yesterday. I trade exclusively on their BTC pairs.

The liquidity is way better than I thought. I can have my orders fulfilled or taken most of the time. I also began to develop some familiarity with their interface that I had criticized about. Their API is neat and comprehensive, pretty easy to integrate with my tools.

I trade a lot during the period of volatility. Some exchanges of even longer history often have the server overwhelmed(such as BitMEX) or error out(such as Deribit as I heard) during these times. BaseFEX is an exception, as I hoped, not much difference when the volume is up. I was told by the support that their backend is built and maintained by some former Huobi and OKEX engineers so I guess it's worth the trading fees I pay. I know it could be just that they haven't got to the overwhelming volume yet, but from where I can see they still have a long way to go to get there so I say this smoothness will be pretty much the case for a year or so.

I also got the feeling that they don't do inside jobs, at least not at this moment. I mean BitMEX is known for counter trading traders even though they never admitted it but they make you 'Order Submission Error' when you are close to liquidation. BaseFEX has very similar liquidation and ADL policies, BUT, a HUGE BUT here, no 'Order Submission Error' when I closed my position right before liquidation.
I also don't think they have insider traders that feeling I always got on BitMEX.

I'd also like to comment on BaseFEX's app. It is very fast and neatly designed! It is very useful and offers the same features as the desktop version. I mean I don't trade on app in general, but it is nice that I can manually close a position to prevent liquidation when I am outside.

I feel I am converted. Seriously considering relocating parts of my trading activities to BaseFEX.

Hopefully they justify my trust.

 

[exstasie]

Update regarding my experience on BaseFEX:
I have been trading there for a week. With $700 BTC deposit, I ended up $1600 BTC in my balance before my withdrawal yesterday. I trade exclusively on their BTC pairs.

The liquidity is way better than I thought. I can have my orders fulfilled or taken most of the time. I also began to develop some familiarity with their interface that I had criticized about. Their API is neat and comprehensive, pretty easy to integrate with my tools.

I trade a lot during the period of volatility. Some exchanges of even longer history often have the server overwhelmed(such as BitMEX) or error out(such as Deribit as I heard) during these times. BaseFEX is an exception, as I hoped, not much difference when the volume is up. I was told by the support that their backend is built and maintained by some former Huobi and OKEX engineers so I guess it's worth the trading fees I pay.

You're in the US, right? I assume you are trading through VPN? Sounds like there were no issues with getting your IP address flagged by BaseFEX, or server lag?

Let us know if you run into any concerns/problems. I'm all about having more options as far as trading platforms. Their fees aren't quite as competitive as Bitmex, but if the UI and order matching engine is decent then I'm interested. Bitmex server performance under load is disappointing, and now that the US authorities are digging into them, they are getting less attractive.

[300pips]

You're in the US, right? I assume you are trading through VPN? Sounds like there were no issues with getting your IP address flagged by BaseFEX, or server lag?

Let us know if you run into any concerns/problems. I'm all about having more options as far as trading platforms. Their fees aren't quite as competitive as Bitmex, but if the UI and order matching engine is decent then I'm interested. Bitmex server performance under load is disappointing, and now that the US authorities are digging into them, they are getting less attractive.

No I have been using US IP addresses all along and nothing bad happened. The response time has been fast for both desktop and app.
I think either they don't do anything special to US IP addresses, or they simply don't tag IP locations. My best guess is, as a China-based exchange, they might simply be less concerned about CFTC investigations.
Their engine is definitely strong. As for the interface, different people have different views. For me it took me time to get used to but once I got there, it turned out to be efficient.

[yangongear]

BitMEX has banned all US residents so I am looking for alternatives that allow high leverages and require no KYC. Thoughts?

I think OKEx is suitable for you. You just need to pass KYC1 which is very simple (only provide your name and ID number), then you can try Perpeptual Swap with 100x leverage. They currently is top 2 exchange, and high volume trading. They have a complete Futures trading system, you should try it

[exstasie]

BitMEX has banned all US residents so I am looking for alternatives that allow high leverages and require no KYC. Thoughts?

I think OKEx is suitable for you. You just need to pass KYC1 which is very simple (only provide your name and ID number), then you can try Perpeptual Swap with 100x leverage. They currently is top 2 exchange, and high volume trading. They have a complete Futures trading system, you should try it

OKEx banned US residents too. Level 1 verification requires your nationality and passport number, which means providing fake information......no thanks. I've also heard some reports of OKEx/Okcoin users being forced to complete Level 2 verification. Plus the liquidity isn't even that good; OKEx is notorious for fake volume.

My preference is for a derivatives platform that has no established KYC process whatsoever. So Bitmex or Deribit > OKEx.