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Author Topic: Someone just took a gigantic dump.  (Read 13819 times)
ElectricMucus
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November 15, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
 #161

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz  Roll Eyes

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November 15, 2011, 09:52:01 PM
 #162

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz  Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

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November 15, 2011, 09:57:39 PM
 #163

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz  Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

I am actually amazed there hasn't been more speculation on that. It was one of the first things that popped into my head: 'wow, bitcoinica is making a fucking killing off this; i wonder if they had a hand in it.'

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November 15, 2011, 10:00:47 PM
 #164

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz  Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

Idk you mean he is gambling with peoples coins? Or that the mechanism was programmed to channel shorts in this fashion?
What would be the benefit of that? In that case I don't think that that many shorts have accumulated in such a brief period of time.

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November 15, 2011, 10:04:13 PM
 #165

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz  Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

Idk you mean he is gambling with peoples coins? Or that the mechanism was programmed to channel shorts in this fashion?
What would be the benefit of that? In that case I don't think that that many shorts have accumulated in such a brief period of time.

I mean it looks manual and from what I observed buffering only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time.

What I mean is simple:  Bitcoinica moves a hell of a lot of coins.

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ElectricMucus
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November 15, 2011, 10:07:41 PM
 #166

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 15, 2011, 10:10:27 PM
 #167

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

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November 15, 2011, 10:16:42 PM
 #168

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

I haven't said that, you're right bitcoin is a scammers wet dream.. Anonymity, Privacy, non-reversibility, outside the reach of the legal system... stranger things have happend.

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 15, 2011, 10:23:57 PM
 #169

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

I haven't said that, you're right bitcoin is a scammers wet dream.. Anonymity, Privacy, non-reversibility, outside the reach of the legal system... stranger things have happend.

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

I whole-heartedly agree, but as I said, the FIRST thing to pop into my head was how many were gonna get zhoutonged in the bouncing.

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November 15, 2011, 10:33:50 PM
 #170

Yea that certainly gave him a nice influx. But I know he also lost some during this, there were times were you could buy with a negative spread.
Not enough to klick in time but certainly profitable if you were waiting for the indicators... so there are 2 sides of this.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 15, 2011, 10:47:03 PM
 #171

Yea that certainly gave him a nice influx. But I know he also lost some during this, there were times were you could buy with a negative spread.
Not enough to klick in time but certainly profitable if you were waiting for the indicators... so there are 2 sides of this.

Anyone with a big pile of coins (bitcoinica) can simply manipulate the market to recover whatever losses they saw during their activities.  It would be foolish not to.

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November 16, 2011, 12:33:23 AM
 #172

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

I doubt that whether you have a lot of dollars or a lot of coins to begin with makes any difference if you are going to manipulate the market (long term) to make profit. I don't know how "coins left from the beginning" enters your reasoning here. USD/BTC is a market well known for its volatility (and lack of depth) by pretty much anyone who would be interested in entering such markets.

One thing is for sure, since we can't get rid of those, we need more of them. Smiley
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November 16, 2011, 12:50:10 AM
 #173

One thing is for sure, since we can't get rid of those, we need more of them. Smiley

Ironically true.

I mean it could have been someone with 1/5 of the amount leveraging them on Bitcoinica, that narrows the list of potential suspects down a bit, but still you are right if there is no one who can compete at this level that happens.

But I can't see how the walls factor into this.. It could be someone else but who knows what's in zhoutongs secret sauce...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 17, 2011, 06:58:05 AM
 #174

Did you notice the 20,000 bitcoins being sold in one shot. This was probably why the manipulator pulled out at this point.

That was a buy, not a sell.
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November 17, 2011, 07:47:08 AM
 #175

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

 

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November 17, 2011, 07:52:57 AM
 #176

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

 

Alright you convinced me.  Thanks for setting me straight.  I will take the buywall down ... it should be gone in about 5 minutes.

Thanks again.

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November 17, 2011, 07:57:22 AM
 #177

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

 

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.
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November 17, 2011, 08:02:37 AM
 #178

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

 

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.

As long as people like him continue to try to prop the price, there will be no accurate price discovery. If bitcoin is worth $0.5, SO BE IT. Ok, so then a lot of miners have to liquidate their sunk costs, or at the very least power down.

That's totally fine. The electricity cost per day to secure the bitcoin network is orders of magnitude larger than the commerce value.

Bitcoin can survive with 2 Th/s. We don't need 10 Th/s.

Let bitcoin find its price equilibrium for a new beginning.

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November 17, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
 #179

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

 

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.

As long as people like him continue to try to prop the price, there will be no accurate price discovery. If bitcoin is worth $0.5, SO BE IT. Ok, so then a lot of miners have to liquidate their sunk costs, or at the very least power down.

That's totally fine. The electricity cost per day to secure the bitcoin network is orders of magnitude larger than the commerce value.

Bitcoin can survive with 2 Th/s. We don't need 10 Th/s.

Let bitcoin find its price equilibrium for a new beginning.

Wasn't bitcoinexpress' alleged attack pool up to almost a terahash by his claims? I disagree that it can survive such a dip in network security. I am no expert, but Ars is pushing 895GH/s with 459 users...you can bet your sweet ass that there are 500 people interested in causing trouble should the network become that weak.

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November 17, 2011, 08:13:51 AM
 #180

Quote
Wasn't bitcoinexpress' alleged attack pool up to almost a terahash by his claims? I disagree that it can survive such a dip in network security. I am no expert, but Ars is pushing 895GH/s with 459 users...you can bet your sweet ass that there are 500 people interested in causing trouble should the network become that weak.

You're talking about an attack that has very little value at $0.5. It would take a coordinated attack, and if it's vulnerable then so be it. $20,000 a day to secure a network that has almost no actual traction is ridiculous. It is the reason for the speculating and pyramid. You're also assuming that at $0.5 those miners would be part of a larger pool that could act as a proxy for attacks, and I think at those prices, you'd find that no single pool would have anything more in total network control than they have now, where their relative size stays constant, but where 70% of their members are lost through attrition.

[edit: clarity, grammar, some missing words]

 

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