Do you believe stolen funds should be returned to their owner?

[jhonjhon]

Over $4 billion has been stolen or laundered in the first six months of 2019! This interview with CipherTrace CEO Dave Jevans is really interesting regarding details of the lost and stolen funds.

don't believe the stats that these companies that are doing "blockchain analysis" release. they exaggerate things and most of the times they release fake numbers that don't even make sense.

Totally agree, they tend to do that to somehow let investors or future investors lose faith in blockchain and for them to either sell in panic or not invest instead because of this fake statistics.

Do you get them returned  or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

can you really prove they were "stolen"?
lets say a transaction goes out of your wallet spending all your funds. can you prove that it was a hacker that stole it or was it you who sold those coins and now want to scam the other party by calling it a hack?
you see the problem here?

You have a point, no one can really prove it was stolen, it is so easy to say the coins were stolen when in reality they spend it all but we don’t have a way to track it because when the funds were spent or transferred you can really trace who transferred it and also cannot trace the real person who made the transfer, what we can only do is give them the benefit of the doubt that it was really stolen.

[Theb]

If the stolen funds are somehow retrieved then the regular rule of ownership still applies if they haven't retrieve it though a company is still liable to its investors even if their funds are stolen from them I mean even banks have deposit insurance for their clients just in case a robbery or bankruptcy happens to them. The insurance of course doesn't cover everything there is a certain limit depending on each country or each insurer. And of course crypto exchange doesn't have one as they are not yet particularly covered by that kind of requirement but if the lawmakers decided to do so I believe that crypto exchanges will actually start tightening and improving their securities ones they know they are liable to the potential losses of their users.

[Oilacris]

Do you get them returned  or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

They are lost forever no matter how good they are on tracking into things of lost funds but still its useless.

No keys=No funds and theres no magic on reverting those transactions been done that's why hoping into this
impossible thing will just stress you out.

[Findingnemo]

When something is decentralized there is no way to bring back the lost funds on hacks so the owner will never get any funds from the hacker but we see binace returned lost funds from the pockets when they got hacked so getting refund is owners right but exchanges will decide about that.

[spadormie]

Is this even a question? Morality speaking, IT SHOULD BE RETURNED to the owner. And those thieves should be punished for what they've done.

The challenge here is how to retrieve the funds that were stolen and how to find the person/thieves.

[Iceblast]

Over $4 billion has been stolen or laundered in the first six months of 2019! This interview with CipherTrace CEO Dave Jevans is really interesting regarding details of the lost and stolen funds.

I was surprised to see that ransomware and scams are some of the biggest points of money loss over exchange hacks.

Worth while interview to watch and join in the conversation of what should happen to stolen funds. Do you get them returned  or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

https://blocktv.com/watch/2019-08-22/5d5ea9e847c19-scams-hacks-ransomware-run-amok-in-the-cryptosphere

for funds that have been lost there may be no hope of return, now thieves have taken advantage of the situation and I don't think it is a good thing to hope that the funds will return.

[rodel caling]

Base on simple morality, I'd agree that stolen funds should be returned to the owners. With the rate of thefts in the cryptosphere, security agencies would be interested in tracking these funds. Many crypto users do not like the idea of regulation - I don't too, but this is one of the problems regulation tend solve. We don't have to be nonchalant since we haven't lost any funds to these thefts.

I never think such morality exist by now. They steal our funds in a certain purposes and not by returning it over. We can't expect that we can have it back once it lost, nobody could do that.
In a particular reason why they stole our funds just because we let them to get it. How it sad, we can't get them cause of the anonymity we had in this community. We can only trace the transactions but not the person who make it.

Pretty perfect explanation and sad to admit hurt to heard, but it's comes in the reality the steal funds is very impossible to get back of the owners.
I'll never heard lost or stolen funds are returned it to the owner this issue is very difficult matters if the need to,talk about the honesty amd morality.

[pieppiep]

Is this even a question? Morality speaking, IT SHOULD BE RETURNED to the owner. And those thieves should be punished for what they've done.

The challenge here is how to retrieve the funds that were stolen and how to find the person/thieves.

Yes, it is. It' related to the morality of each people who gets the money. We hope that people are not stolen other people's money because that will be a bad thing and that breaks the law. The risk to do that will cause us to get jail, but that is if we get caught by the police. But I think for people who are stolen other people's money, they will not think to return the money to the owner. We can see the thief in public are that are trying to steal the money and then they are run away from that person because they want to use the money to buy something they want. But that is for an example and related to the cryptocurrency, it is better we are returned the money to the owner.

[breathlessz]

Base on simple morality, I'd agree that stolen funds should be returned to the owners. With the rate of thefts in the cryptosphere, security agencies would be interested in tracking these funds. Many crypto users do not like the idea of regulation - I don't too, but this is one of the problems regulation tend solve. We don't have to be nonchalant since we haven't lost any funds to these thefts.

I never think such morality exist by now. They steal our funds in a certain purposes and not by returning it over. We can't expect that we can have it back once it lost, nobody could do that.
In a particular reason why they stole our funds just because we let them to get it. How it sad, we can't get them cause of the anonymity we had in this community. We can only trace the transactions but not the person who make it.

Pretty perfect explanation and sad to admit hurt to heard, but it's comes in the reality the steal funds is very impossible to get back of the owners.
I'll never heard lost or stolen funds are returned it to the owner this issue is very difficult matters if the need to,talk about the honesty amd morality.

they do it deliberately, so that the value of morality is no longer within the perpetrators. and the difficulty is that we cannot complain to anyone about legal protection. the way to go is to give up. hence how dangerous this is, and usually begins with our own carelessness. therefore keep your concentration, when online, and avoid unclear sites

[matchi2011]

Is this even a question? Morality speaking, IT SHOULD BE RETURNED to the owner. And those thieves should be punished for what they've done.

The challenge here is how to retrieve the funds that were stolen and how to find the person/thieves.

That's a big challenge, trying to recover of punished those people who stole those funds, there's should be a good agencies who can work things out and run after those people/thieves to get them liable and be punished, there's no assurance whether it can be returned to original owners but what's best is to stop them and punished them so the system will go forward and be accepted and adopted without any doubts and worries..

[arpon11]

Over $4 billion has been stolen or laundered in the first six months of 2019! This interview with CipherTrace CEO Dave Jevans is really interesting regarding details of the lost and stolen funds.

I was surprised to see that ransomware and scams are some of the biggest points of money loss over exchange hacks.

Worth while interview to watch and join in the conversation of what should happen to stolen funds. Do you get them returned  or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

https://blocktv.com/watch/2019-08-22/5d5ea9e847c19-scams-hacks-ransomware-run-amok-in-the-cryptosphere

I will not only agree that stolen funds should be returned but I recommend that it should be returned for the interest of Justice and fairness! Because we are having a decentralized system does not mean we should keep our fellow men in poverty by hacking or scamming them. The decentralized(blockchain) has made it difficult for stolen bitcoin and other coins that are being stolen to be recovered as most of this hackers or scammers do transfer the funds to mixers and from there it became difficult to trance.

[slaman29]

I was surprised to see that ransomware and scams are some of the biggest points of money loss over exchange hacks.

I'm not surprised at all to see scams as biggest losing points for exchanges. But ransomware seems to be a big shock to me. I recall reading that ransomware attacks only gain hackers very tiny amounts of funds because not everyone pays up. Those that do can't even afford to pay much.

And it this is about stolen funds why ransom stolen funds? I don't get it at all.

[RealMalatesta]

When something is decentralized there is no way to bring back the lost funds on hacks so the owner will never get any funds from the hacker but we see binace returned lost funds from the pockets when they got hacked so getting refund is owners right but exchanges will decide about that.

The only possible way that it can be refunded back to the owner is when the scammer confession the exchange for which the money was stolen from, and provided they can still recover the money back from the scammer, if they have not spent it on useless things that cannot even be sold for them to recover part, if they can recover the money, then it would be possible to refund it.

Let us imagine that they were able to apprehend the hacker that stole from binance platform, and the money is still with such hacker, binance will be the one to take the money since they had already refunded them, but if they were yet to refund, then binance should be able to know those who were affect that will get part of the recovered money, but this will be on a rare case really.

[milewilda]

When something is decentralized there is no way to bring back the lost funds on hacks so the owner will never get any funds from the hacker but we see binace returned lost funds from the pockets when they got hacked so getting refund is owners right but exchanges will decide about that.

The only possible way that it can be refunded back to the owner is when the scammer confession the exchange for which the money was stolen from, and provided they can still recover the money back from the scammer, if they have not spent it on useless things that cannot even be sold for them to recover part, if they can recover the money, then it would be possible to refund it.

Let us imagine that they were able to apprehend the hacker that stole from binance platform, and the money is still with such hacker, binance will be the one to take the money since they had already refunded them, but if they were yet to refund, then binance should be able to know those who were affect that will get part of the recovered money, but this will be on a rare case really.

You dont know what you saying,right? No hacker would lost up his mind to give those funds back.Usually exchangers would really took up the responsibility on refunding or compensating those affected users since they do know that their reputation is at stake.Just like what happened on binance, they use up that safu funds and cover up those loses and those are directly from their own pockets.You do have the info that they had able to retrieve on whats being lost to them?

[el kaka22]

That brings in a lot of questions with it, how do you propose that "stolen" is calculated, I mean who will decide if something is stolen or deservedly given? Maybe one person bought a product using bitcoin and then they used the product but didn't like it, they want to return and get the money back but the company doesn't have that type of policy, whatever you bought has no return, what are we going to do in that case?

Do we claim it is stolen because the person who bought it doesn't like it anymore? I don't think so. That is why I think best case scenario here is not to touch the currently running system. Does it have downside to it? Sure it does, but that doesn't mean you have to really overhaul the whole system just because some people were idiots enough to get scammed.

[TIDOVEE]

since it is 'stolen funds' it is not lost, it is kept and shouldn't be stolen forever. it can never be supported by law and it must have been to the detriment of certain people.
it should be given to the owners. if it is be lost to hackers, there is very little or nothing that can be done about that, everyone will silently bear the pain and let go.

[irsykes]

If people asked like that, their answer must be stolend funds should be returned to their owner. But my question is how, like in bitcoin wallet that is anonym, not talk about exchanges because we can know if address is from exchanges. And maybe if law enforcer who ask to the exchanges like who is own the address, maybe they can tell it. But if personal wallet, maybe can returned to that wallet itself. Luck for who not mix it yet because it is easy to trace which wallet is be source of transaction.

[danherbias07]

They should give it back, but how?

Let us make Binance as an example. You could trade with them, deposit and withdraw for a limit of 2 BTC. Let us say many does that to avoid KYC. If a sudden robbery happen inside the company will they be held liable for all this funds?

I dont think so. You avoided the KYC so it is like avoiding the terms and agreement.
Question: Hoe will you prove you really own funds with them?
In other cases, they go through a lot of paperworks and jurisdictions. But giving back those funds to each user will be impossible.

[sana54210]

If they are able to recover the stolen fund, the right thing to do would have actually been to return the stolen fund, but how can they return it when they cannot even trace the owner, except maybe a case is filed with the police showing proof if their stolen funds, then maybe they can use their discretion to pay such person, but if not, the fund might be lost forever and the investor never get the chance of getting the money back again.

Moreover, I think it would even be very difficult to ever recover all those stolen funds, since there is no way there offenders can ever be traced, except maybe they were caught through a physical scam and then probably make a personal confession about it, so those fund would just be in the decentralized system and lost forever.

[carter34]

They should give it back, but how?

Let us make Binance as an example. You could trade with them, deposit and withdraw for a limit of 2 BTC. Let us say many does that to avoid KYC. If a sudden robbery happen inside the company will they be held liable for all this funds?

I dont think so. You avoided the KYC so it is like avoiding the terms and agreement.
Question: Hoe will you prove you really own funds with them?
In other cases, they go through a lot of paperworks and jurisdictions. But giving back those funds to each user will be impossible.

I think that you have a very good point though. It is not only to give it back but it is whether it gets to the actually owner especially with the analysis you gave. If people have decided to boycott 2fas, KYC , how will they show proof in a case like this.
Crypto theft isn't like the physical theft where restoration can merely be done on radio, television by simply showing of identity card and the likes.