Taxless society idea

[STT]

tax is the spirit of a country,

Honest business, production and enterprise is the spirit of a country.   The money paid to the paperwork of various laws that charge whether you did anything incorrect or not, this is not productive or the definition of a nation.     Mutual benefit from society through trade and shared costs doesn't have to be anything to do with a centralised government.   Switzerland probably has the best idea on this as they split government up more locally, people are not administered remotely by people they will never be close in any possible contact.

   The OP idea isn't even new, the idea of taxing a population by undermining diluting constantly the unit of currency goes all the way back to the Roman empire and it made slaves of their people.   Even the citizens who formerly fought to become part of the empire now were trapped by enforced laws of a remote and unfair empire.   People should never be forced to use one particular currency, that is what gives the game away if there remains any confusion when large government issues no choice or freedom of movement personally, financially to organise as an individual then the person or citizen no longer exists.

Everytime I see a thread anywhere by people saying why haven't wages kept up with costs, we're poorer now in our skilled employment then decades ago; the reason is the money that became worthless.   We still use all the major currencies but they are cents on the dollar compared to their former value, thats why your wages don't go as far and costs outweigh wage growth so some people are actually struggling while being fully employed; in a rich country in peacetime that should not be happening.

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[bananacue]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

[gabmen]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

[makolz26]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

We have nothing to control regarding our government as they are the ones controlling the fund of the country, they are the one controlling the citizens, and it is very hard to find a leader which is loyal and has integrity to do what is right to protect and serve their country righteously. Having a taxless society is not the solution but it depends on us how we will choose the right leader.

[GideonGono]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

That’s the challenging part really. Since taxes are needed to run a country and provide opportunities to the people then I also do believe that it is impossible for a taxless society to foster. It would eventually weaken the security and the welfare of the people. The thing about choosing a leader is that these politicians would try to sell themselves with good promises but when put on the post they would not be able to uphold it. And sometimes to select a leader is quiet limited like in the US where there are only two partylist and two running president and you would have no choice but to choose which is less worse than the other.

[darkangel11]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

[DaftAjax]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

Because 300 years ago, the Kingdom does not provide incentives to its citizens and employees (no healthcare to the majority of citizens, the security sucks, etc.). We can all agree that taxes are running the government now, without it the "system" would probably collapse, along with the country as a whole. Another thing, the government tax that much because back then the labor, the employment, the businesses aren't as prosperous as the present. And I should also include that, Fiat money is getting worse and worse in exchange for whatever it's worth for products and services.

They can say that they can tax the "rich people" but still gets away with it.

[atjiat]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

I think that in this case we are talking about the freedom of each person in the literal and figurative sense, and not about taxes.  In my opinion, it is thanks to taxes that all states exist, and not just the state administration apparatus.  All that you said primarily depends on the government, which is elected by the people themselves and therefore whom we have chosen, so will be the decisions of the chosen "Servants of the People."  Nevertheless, I would significantly reduce the tax burden on ordinary citizens, and would increase taxes for all sorts of businesses, where billionaires are born every year.

[darkangel11]

Because 300 years ago, the Kingdom does not provide incentives to its citizens and employees (no healthcare to the majority of citizens, the security sucks, etc.). We can all agree that taxes are running the government now, without it the "system" would probably collapse, along with the country as a whole.

Healthcare is covered by healthcare tax. I'm talking about income tax.

It would have to cut spending but it wouldn't collapse. Back in the Roman days being an MP was an honour. They weren't getting crazy wages 3 times higher than average citizen. A US senator gets $174,000 a year. That's 14,5 k a month while you're working your ass off in a corporation to get $2k. 5k a month is already a very good wage and those leeches are getting raises! They used to get 150k a year but that wasn't enough, now they're getting 174.  It's the same everywhere.

In the EU MPs are getting €8k a month! In most parts of the eu the average is 2k and if you're getting 3k you're considered wealthy. They are getting 8, because their hard work of rising their hand and speaking their mind once in a while is worth more than that of a surgeon or a pilot.

Another thing, the government tax that much because back then the labor, the employment, the businesses aren't as prosperous as the present. And I should also include that, Fiat money is getting worse and worse in exchange for whatever it's worth for products and services.

They can say that they can tax the "rich people" but still gets away with it.

The work of a man was always paid accordingly and you might think the businesses weren't big back then because there was no industry and everything was being built by hand, but people had nice businesses, but making simple things like candles, wine, furnaces, bells. It doesn't matter how big their companies were they were always paid for their time.

[Oneandpure]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

I think that in this case we are talking about the freedom of each person in the literal and figurative sense, and not about taxes.  In my opinion, it is thanks to taxes that all states exist, and not just the state administration apparatus.  All that you said primarily depends on the government, which is elected by the people themselves and therefore whom we have chosen, so will be the decisions of the chosen "Servants of the People."  Nevertheless, I would significantly reduce the tax burden on ordinary citizens, and would increase taxes for all sorts of businesses, where billionaires are born every year.

Bitcoin become good source income for government if allowed as legal currency payment with tax way system, I think when government have adopt bitcoin as legal payment there are many way to help country for increase economic become better, but government still not have good way how to adopt bitcoin and how to get tax way by bitcoin become legal currency payment for the future.

[deisik]

At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist

I don't know about 300 years ago but in the Medieval Europe (more specifically, in England) you had to pay a certain amount of gold coin irrespective of your income. In other words, even if you had no income, you still had got to pay a tax. It was called a poll tax, otherwise known as head tax, since it was levied as a fixed sum on every person. And if you couldn't pay this tax, you had your property confiscated and yourself turned into a beggar. It was a pretty ruthless system for simple folks which had been causing social unrest and rebellions

So much for 10-20% of your income

[Vishnu.Reang]

A taxless society is only possible if we expect no spending from the government. Also, all the government employees need to be volunteers (including administrators, policemen, soldiers, teachers.etc). And do you think that it is practical? It is possible to eradicate income tax and take care of the government expenses using the indirect taxes (GST, VAT.etc). But at present, I don't think that it is possible to eliminate all types of tax. 

[int03h]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.
Paying taxes helps contribute everyone's money to create the society you live in today.
The economy of a country is being effectively spent and regulated by the state. The capitalist will become monopoly because there is no state control. The capitalists will find a way to make more money. The most disadvantageous one is us. The idea of ​​a country without taxes is crazy. People are not as good as you think.

[abhiseshakana]

A taxless society is only possible if we expect no spending from the government. Also, all the government employees need to be volunteers (including administrators, policemen, soldiers, teachers.etc). And do you think that it is practical? It is possible to eradicate income tax and take care of the government expenses using the indirect taxes (GST, VAT.etc). But at present, I don't think that it is possible to eliminate all types of tax. 

The state was created to provide basic services to society. In providing services, of course, the state requires funds for its operations. To support the state budget, the government usually relies on income from taxes and foreign debt. if the state cannot collect taxes and owe debts, the state must do business to meet the state budget.

The first condition for tax-exempt people is the availability of basic services for the community equally and without inequality. The second country must be a business entity for its services. If the state is not allowed to collect taxes, it means that citizens must work together to finance the country's interests. Taken an example of the construction of irrigation channels in the village using mutual funds from residents.

The loss of state revenues from taxes must be covered by increased non-tax revenues and mutual assistance funds from citizens.

[Sithara007]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

[ampu]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary.
No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary.

[deisik]

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary

You seem to have messed up with quoting

So I fixed it for you in my reply and advise you to do the same in yours lest you should be accused for plagiarizing your own comment. Regarding the poor and the homeless, the solution seems to be straightforward and kind of intuitive. It is these unlucky ones which should provide these services (some part thereof). Obviously, not the high-end services which require skill and expertise, but simple and easy ones. The problem solved

It fact, this is pretty much how it happens now. The rich pay the taxes, and through these taxes the lowest strata of society get their support and sustenance. In this way, the removal of taxes could actually make the lives of these people better by encouraging them to be productive and useful to the society as a whole (instead of being parasites)

[Vishnu.Reang]

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary

You seem to have messed up with quoting

So I fixed it for you in my reply and advise you to do the same in yours lest you should be accused for plagiarizing your own comment. Regarding the poor and the homeless, the solution seems to be straightforward and kind of intuitive. It is these unlucky ones which should provide these services (some part thereof). Obviously, not the high-end services which require skill and expertise, but simple and easy ones. The problem solved

You are absolutely right. The so called "poor and homeless" can't expect the more well off citizens to take care of them for eternity. Eventually, they need to contribute to the society in some form. They can provide manpower for various infra-structure projects, such as the construction of roads, bridges, railway lines.etc, or they can contribute in the law enforcement department.

[Spaffin]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

[DaftAjax]

I'm talking about income tax.

The work of a man was always paid accordingly and you might think the businesses weren't big back then because there was no industry and everything was being built by hand, but people had nice businesses, but making simple things like candles, wine, furnaces, bells. It doesn't matter how big their companies were they were always paid for their time.

If so, what I'm pointing out really is the "amount", well, not literally the amount being paid but the number of things to work on. As you mentioned, back then it's only as simple as weaving, making wine (tho there still is), but what my point is, it's not the same as now.

I guess what I really want to point out is that there are many things to consider now, compared to back then.