It's hard to know who to believe.

[yazher]

I can say that global warming is real. when you are leaving in a tropical country you really feel the changed now. Here in our country, there are only 2 seasons of Sunny and Rainy seasons. Before when it was a Sunny season the only thing will come up to my head is no rain for a couple of months and the heat of the sun will cost the water supply to go below average. But now, Guess what? when Sunny seasons come, the water supply will go to almost nothing we ended up digging well so that we can have access to some water resources. also when its raining the rain is always above average. flooding all the time, this was not the case before though. That's why I think global warming is real it is happening right now.

[stephanirain]

The western world says that the world is warming, and we will all be drowned or cooked in a few years. China says we are about to enter a period of global cooling, and we should prepare for that. China has been forecasting climate change for thousands of years, so we should at least consider their opinion.

The fundamentals of Bitcoin are really strong in the opinion of many people, but others seem to think that it has fallen out of favour, and new regulations will cause a continuance of a drop in its value. I think they may both be right, with a short term drop in price, followed by a new bull run.

The climate change natzis are trying to force through legislation to reduce carbon emissions, but many research scientists seem to be of the opinion that we are in a period of carbon famine, and this is causing desertification.

Statins have been the most profitable of all the manufactured pharmaceuticals, but the side effects seem to far outweigh the very limited benefit to health. All of the raw research data is held by Oxford University, and they are refuse to allow it to be released for public evaluation.

Don't even start me on fractional reserve banking, non-government creation of fiat currencies, derivatives and all the other banking schemes.

What we really need is the release of factual and well researched objective reports, that are not promoting commercial interests, but there isn't much chance of that is there?

China is the last country that I would ask updates about climate change. Their country is one of the top carbon emissions and that is seen by the growing number of factories. It's not just China though; a lot of other countries that are and being urbanized have the largest contribution on the air pollution.
Global warming is real; climate change is REAL. As a Southeast Asian, I observed and experience that typhoons are getting stronger and their occurrences are increasing through the years.

[Carlton Banks]

Here in our country, there are only 2 seasons of Sunny and Rainy seasons. Before when it was a Sunny season the only thing will come up to my head is no rain for a couple of months and the heat of the sun will cost the water supply to go below average. But now, Guess what? when Sunny seasons come, the water supply will go to almost nothing we ended up digging well so that we can have access to some water resources. also when its raining the rain is always above average. flooding all the time, this was not the case before though. That's why I think global warming is real it is happening right now.

Global warming is real; climate change is REAL. As a Southeast Asian, I observed and experience that typhoons are getting stronger and their occurrences are increasing through the years.

so only (small) changes in CO₂ alters rainfall or typhoon intensity?


I put this to you two:

• rainfall patterns have changed before, when CO₂ was not really changing
• typhoon intensity has changed before, again, when CO₂ was not really changing

not only that, but climate scientists are unanimous that CO₂ is not changing at an uncontrolled rate. A change of 0.01% over 200 years is not runaway exponential growth.

[Cnut237]

What we really need is the release of factual and well researched objective reports, that are not promoting commercial interests, but there isn't much chance of that is there?

My approach is to always be skeptical, and whenever I'm assessing the veracity of any claim, the first question I always ask myself is 'what's in it for them?'. In some cases it's obvious - for example climate change deniers who have commercial interests in fossil fuels, but in other cases it can admittedly be very difficult - who funded which "independent" report. However I do think that 'what's in it for them?' is always the most important question to ask. If nothing else, it sets you on the path towards objective truth.

[franky1]

atmospheric CO₂ has increased from 0.03% to 0.04% over the last 200 years. The increase is 0.01%

The "difference" is 0.01 as you've said. But that's is not how much it's increased. It's increased by 33%. Well.. I guess what I should say is that the percentage increase is 33% which would be more accurate.

just to clear this matter up
33% increase but not a 33% temperature rise
they say average temperature was 15'c now 17'c =13% thus no correlation

the scientific equipment used to measure back to 1820 is not the same equipment method used for 1960+
expect anomalies between datasets using different models

also with oxygen at 780,000ppm and co2 at ~300->400ppm.. co2 is not the worry
nitrogen can change by 27000ppm purely due to if its raining or not.
the difference of rain in of itself can change by a few thousand ppm

and the funny part is. rather than taking a reading of co2 on a sunny day and a rainy day and just recorded the results as is.. after all thats the actual amount of carbon in the air, if it happend to be rainy they take that number and manipulte it into a number that represents a sunny day and just log everything as results from dry days

ok here is a test for you to try to realise how impactful something is.
ok  dry day. go to a city (high carbon) go just outside the city(low carbon) i bet there is not much temperature change
oh yea when in a city dont huddle against a skyscaper building using it as a wind break(intentional varienc). go to the top and then when in country go to a hill at the same altitude so the wind factor is the same (reduce manipulating variance)

ok now try a day where part of the day is sunny and the other part is rainy.. or be in an area of sun and drive to where its rainy. i bet the temperature is more noticable different

yep water in the atmosphere has bigger impact than carbon.

next funny fact. the warmer the temperature gets the more the water is evaporated from lakes/oceans, causing clouds which then cause temperatures to drop. (self fixing mechanism.. nature is good like that)

traffic, modern industry is said to account for just 90ppm change of atmospheric content. yes rain can make the difference of thousands of parts

so lets really concentrate on this carbon thing first
ok so they say todays 17'c average is based on 0.04% instead of previous 15'c of 0.03% 2'c increase for 0.01%
so imagine if 0.09%=12'c increase.
so imagine if 0.9%=120'c increase.
so imagine if 9%=1200'c increase.
so imagine if 90%=12000'c increase.

yet. planets like venus are 95% yet not anywhere near to 12,000'c
and also venus is closer to the sun so less heat lost in space so numbers should be even higher than 12,000'c
sorry but venus is under 500'c

here is a clue to the real climate change
RAIN forests. there are less of them meaning. less what (it begins with R)

same for the poles. snow doesnt miraculously turn up and layer the poles it comes from what.. wait.. no it doesnt magic up from less carbon. it comes from water

the water is the most impactful factor.
carbon emmissions are not that much atmosphere affecting. but water content is.

if you really think that a smoggy city on a dry day is hotter than a beach to such a degree that it makes a rainy day vs sunny day less impactful then here is another test

why isnt it hottest at 9am and 5pm when most commuters are driving to and from work/school. but is hotter/colder depending on if its a clear or rainy day

in short industry emissions is not the cause. its the lack of forests and soil rich in water. to allow for good evaporation.
these days water runs off buildings into gutters and then into drains, instead of evaporating from tree's and fields

most ocean based evaporation form clouds and then rains on the same oceans. thus hardly much lasts long enough to rain on mainlands to affect mainland results so dont try moving the observations that its oceans that cause differentials in mainland temperature studies

here is an analogy for you
co2 experts are saying co2 increased and temperature increase. thus co2 caused temperature
the analogy is that people with lung cancer have more stained teeth. thus stained teeth caused cancer

actual thing is
deforestation/ concreting and draining land of natural wet topsoil caused less water causing higher temperatures
the analogy, smoking ruins the lungs and stains the causing more risk of lung cancer

thats not to say that emissions are not harmful, as they can kill wildlife and harm human health. but thats a debate for biology not climatology

have a nice day

[Soldierswitlittlefaith]

Sunlight is an energy source, and energy cannot be destroyed. This means that the energy used to create electricity is being denied to some other natural process. One needs to determine if that natural process is less beneficial than the electricity we consume. Certainly building a solar farm on arable lane is depriving us of a food source. To compensate for this the farmed land has to be "fed" with fertilisers, and these don't contain the minerals that are essential for healthy humans. To compensate for that, Big Pharma creates artificial products that have serious side effects, and further diminish the health of "civilised" societies. It is obvious that it is a carefully constructed project with the primary aim of increasing the wealth of the rich elite. and damaging the health and finances of the bulk of civilisation.

I agree that batteries, and the misuse of rare earths are another factor to be considered. So is the damage caused by the war machines of the international bullies and slave masters.

@Jet Cash,
"......energy cannot be destroyed....." energy cannot be destroyed.

Do you still believe this principle?

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

[Soldierswitlittlefaith]

ahh, they should have predicted the outburst of nCOV in 2020!
 Atleast, this would have help countries that would have to love to sell the nCOV medication(s) to other countries at a high rate prepare in advance.

[Jet Cash]

Energy cannot be destroyed, you can only change its form.

Water vapour, ie. clouds etc. is the greatest cause of global warming by a long way. Reducing carbon starves the tress and vegetation of its life breath. As a result of this, it has to open its pores as it gasps for breath, this releases water vapour into the atmosphere, and it has to be replaced from the soil. We need to increase CO2 to increase trees and vegetation, and to preserve the water in the ground.

We are entering a new solar minimum, and sea ice is increasing - that is the true change to our climate.

We need more cows and ruminants to rebuild the mineral content in the soil as well. The only reason they fart is because they are fed animal based protein created by Big Pharma.

[Carlton Banks]

Water vapour, ie. clouds etc. is the greatest cause of global warming by a long way.

you've not once provided even a shred of evidence for this claim, despite how often you repeat it

Reducing carbon starves the tress and vegetation of its life breath. As a result of this, it has to open its pores as it gasps for breath, this releases water vapour into the atmosphere, and it has to be replaced from the soil. We need to increase CO2 to increase trees and vegetation, and to preserve the water in the ground.

that all sounds like total nonsense, Jetcash

We are entering a new soar minimum, and sea ice is increasing - that is the true change to our climate.

I'm slightly skeptical about both of these claims, and I'm not a climate change alarmist by any stretch

We need more cows and ruminants to rebuild the mineral content in the soil as well. The only reason they fart is because they are fed animal based protein created by Big Pharma.

provide evidence for these sensational claims. I expect you cannot link to anything credible (which isn't an endorsement of "Big Pharma" or "Big Agriculture")

[franky1]

tre's have an important part for lung health.. but so does for instance filling old quarries with water and turning them into algea /seaweed ponds/farms

as oppose to drylands and concrete cities dont help water to evaporate.

and sorry jetcash but more water in the air is better.. it will cool the land and reflect the sun off the land
(more rainbows the better)
not sure why you think that less carbon=trees sucking up more water from soil and releasing it from pores as being a problem.

any way.
each region of the planet should adopt different tactics
cities should have carbon absorbers(lung health) and mist makers(temperature control).

use old rock/mineral quarry's as premade potential lakes and water life based farming
woodland should not just be cut and move on. but cut and replanted.

vegetable farms can become efficient greenhouses using solar and finely tuned red blue LED lights. maximising yields for less costs and because its in sealed greenhouses no pesticides or herbicide risks.

water ways to reintroduce muscles and oysters and clams to clean water and also use water surface skimmer machines/nets to get some of the plastics out the water without hooking fish up.

stop building houses/buildings at costal edges /floodlands

use snow making machines/misters near the poles
..
the whole 'just plant tree's' is a weak effort

..
as for the extent of things like 'water level rising'..
its happened many times before

heck people think the flood in new orleans is climate change.. no the reason thousands of homes got flooded is because they buiid cheap houses on swamp land for the poor people like the ethnic community.

if you live in an area where an old house is built on stilts.. expect to experience some flooding in your life time no matter what the climate change reasons are

[amishmanish]

Ahh...What a thread this was. Me and Carlton started with discussions on environmental costs of Solar power plants vs Fossil-fired power plants, the economic implications of Kyoto protocol and climate accords, the possibility of powerful petroleum lobbies being the driving force to push through such legislation.
It was all going fine. How the hell did we get hung up on 0.01%...LOL..Ohh yeah, it was Banks' fault.. (Told ya, Banks are the worst)

All in all, this was indeed a good discussion on climate change although the original question is about "Who to trust?" That important philosophical debate is getting sidelined due to petty arguments over climate change.

I love Jet Cash's theories though. When it comes to climate change, he is the in-house conspiracy theorist's theorist. It was amusing to see the "Cows farting Methane into atmosphere" argument coming up..Haha, gotta love all you crazy people here.