How to 100% Secure Bitcoin from Thieves / Hackers / Government???

[BTCEnthusiast2]

I'm trying to improve/perfect as much as possible the security of my Bitcoin.

My current security is:

1. Use Ledger Nano S to store keys
2. Have 24 word back-up phrase stored in multiple hidden locations that no-one will find
3. Only access my BTC on hard-line internet connection (no wifi to stop hackers intercepting)
4. Only access my BTC on a computer that I rarely use and update the virus software to stop trojan horse/remote access.


I'm wondering a few things though:

1. If the Ledger Nano company goes out of business, where will my keys go? How will I access them?
2. Is there anything else obvious I can/should do to improve this process?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

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[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Mine are:
-I have stored my coins in a 2/2 multi sig wallet. Two keys are in two different device. I printed the keys and stored them in two separate place.
-I have a ledger wallet but I do not use it for bitcoins anymore. I have few alts and I am using the ledger for them

I'm wondering a few things though:

1. If the Ledger Nano company goes out of business, where will my keys go? How will I access them?
2. Is there anything else obvious I can/should do to improve this process?

I think someone with better knowledge will answer this.

[avikz]

Till the time you have your seed words, you are good!! The private keys are actually derived from your seed words. So if Ledger nano s goes out of the business, you can simply use your seed words to restore your wallet in any other wallet service provider that lets you control your private keys.

You can also refer to the below thread,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3345224.0

Hope this helps!

[Lutpin]

1. If the Ledger Nano company goes out of business, where will my keys go? How will I access them?

LedgerWallet (the company) does not have access to your private keys, not now, not ever.
The point of a hardware wallet is that the keys are only stored on that specific piece of hardware, they are not shared, they are not accessible from the outside.

If LedgerWallet (the company) goes out of business, their software companion to the Nano, Ledger Live, would likely stop working.
You would not get any more firmware updates and might not be able to install new currencies on your ledger without some workaround.

However, there are a lot of third party wallets integrating with the Nano, those will continue to work regardless. Electrum would be one that comes to mind for Bitcoin. Mycelium works with the Nano as well, IIRC.
Even if this wasn't an option, you could still use your mnemonic phrase (the 24 words) to restore your private keys in another kind of wallet.
(eg import them into Electrum directly, instead of connecting Electrum to the Nano)

In conclusion: LedgerWallet (the company) going out of business will likely decrease the usability of your Nano, but it will never leave you without access to your funds.

[BTCEnthusiast2]

Thanks for the advice guys, that makes a lot of sense.

[Lanatsa]

I'm wondering a few things though:

1. If the Ledger Nano company goes out of business, where will my keys go? How will I access them?
2. Is there anything else obvious I can/should do to improve this process?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Once you have the keys of your wallet or addresses then it do belong on your forever and no one can take it from you hence Ledger company doesn't hold up
they keys and anytime you can import it on a wallet using up those seeds so this issue wont really be a bothersome incase the company would vanished unexpectedly.
How to secure up your Bitcoin 1005? theres no such thing yet anything do still have the risk on losing.Putting those coins in ledger and keep it away from people awareness is already enough and its up to your diligence on how you would keep up your keys safely without being compromised by other parties.

[DoublerHunter]

Just always put in a safe place your passphrase and password in your LedgerWallet. If you can afford another wallet much better if you split into 2 LedgerWallet. Remember that don't put all your eggs in one basket, you should keep into another one. As of now, that is the best option in storing Bitcoin, so it's our responsibility to keep them in a safe place. Nevertheless, Lutpin has a good suggestion importing to another bitcoin wallet and restore if ever LegerNano company will go out business. We should always be careful always by our fund.

[Harlot]

The Ledger Nano you have brought from them isn't dependent on the company's success financially in fact your Ledger Nano will work independently as long as you have the keys for it. If something like that happens that a hardware wallet is dependent on the company or somehow have access to your wallet nobody will be buying in them in the first place because you are just like storing your cryptocurrencies on an exchange that there is a possibility that it will be lost in the future due to them being hacked or being bankrupt. Only downside is you won't have firmware updates from them since they have shutdown in your scenario but I doubt users even frequently bring up there wallet just to update it.

[BitValve]

I'm trying to improve/perfect as much as possible the security of my Bitcoin.

My current security is:

1. Use Ledger Nano S to store keys
2. Have 24 word back-up phrase stored in multiple hidden locations that no-one will find
3. Only access my BTC on hard-line internet connection (no wifi to stop hackers intercepting)
4. Only access my BTC on a computer that I rarely use and update the virus software to stop trojan horse/remote access.


I'm wondering a few things though:

1. If the Ledger Nano company goes out of business, where will my keys go? How will I access them?
2. Is there anything else obvious I can/should do to improve this process?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

1. Im not very familiar about Ledger nano but having used Trezor, the keys are stored internally in the hardware wallet, so even if the Nano company goes out of business the hardware wallet should still work and it will still contain your keys in it. Meaning you will be able to use them normally.
I would also suggest you to buy a second ledger nano, and just leave it somehwere, just in case you lose the main device. Then with your 24word backup you will be able to recover them on the new wallet.

[Carlton Banks]

4. Only access my BTC on a computer that I rarely use and update the virus software to stop trojan horse/remote access.

anti-virus = digital snake oil


real 4. Install secure operating system on computer (i.e. not Windows)
5. Install & configure MAC package (mandatory access control)


step 5 isn't easy, but either you want secure Bitcoins, or you don't

[Ucy]

You could have 3 parts of your keys buried/hidden in different places. It is more like multisig addresses. You could also have multiple addresses for different amounts of Bitcoin, just in case if someone like a kidnapper, who knows you own alot of Bitcoin demands for your private keys or forces you to transfer your Bitcoin to him/her. You could just give him/her the private keys with least amount of Bitcoin.

[lolxxxx]

I really do not know why you guys have that levels of security I had used blockchain.info before but never had any security issues stored a lot of money there but never used anything except 2fa (email and password) that is it.

Actually, you give open holes to hackers otherwise it is not traceable or hackable...

[BitValve]

Apart from all these process of using different wallets for securing the funds you should also have the responsibility that you're a cryptocurrency user. You should not reveal to outsiders that you are a bitcoin user, because in these days of increasing hack and crimes happening to steal bitcoins what we reveal as a pathway and keep on following you.

Totally agree that you shall not really tell anyone your direct involvement with bitcoins.. Especially when the bitcoin price is increasing and its becoming a tp story in the news.

[BitValve]

I really do not know why you guys have that levels of security I had used blockchain.info before but never had any security issues stored a lot of money there but never used anything except 2fa (email and password) that is it.

Actually, you give open holes to hackers otherwise it is not traceable or hackable...

Its not always a good idea to keep your crypto on sites that have your private keys. Its always safer to just have a hardware wallet, or at least have the coins in your own wallet and then only use the online services such as blockchain.info (or why not bitvalve.com) 

[AGD]

100% is not possible as long as computers are involved.

Also if bad people know about you having a lot of Bitcoins, they could use traditional methods, like torturing etc.

[squatter]

My current security is:

1. Use Ledger Nano S to store keys

Consider one thing: Ledger incorporates closed source elements in both the hardware and firmware of their wallets. You are putting a lot of trust into a third party.

I prefer to use a fully open source wallet and a fully air-gapped cold storage solution.

Like AGD mentioned, many people only consider physical key security. They often neglect to secure themselves from the $5 wrench attack. Part of your security model should involve being private and not discussing your cryptocurrency holdings. Greed is a powerful thing.

[lolxxxx]

I really do not know why you guys have that levels of security I had used blockchain.info before but never had any security issues stored a lot of money there but never used anything except 2fa (email and password) that is it.

Actually, you give open holes to hackers otherwise it is not traceable or hackable...

Its not always a good idea to keep your crypto on sites that have your private keys. Its always safer to just have a hardware wallet, or at least have the coins in your own wallet and then only use the online services such as blockchain.info (or why not bitvalve.com) 

But I never had any problem because I have never shared any info with anyother person even didn't tell about single transaction... So I keep my self secure.

P.S: So you are marketing your site nice, Why don't you look at my services? maybe I can help you market your site https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1405017

[amyshek1979]

As I remember Ledger is non-custodial so they don't own your keys. If I'm wrong, tell me guys.

[leowonderful]

As I remember Ledger is non-custodial so they don't own your keys. If I'm wrong, tell me guys.

Nope, you're correct. You're the one in charge of your keys if you're using any hardware wallet.

I actually do keep some coins in Blockchain.io and some other wallets for daily use, but I keep the majority of my funds that I'm not actively using in my Ledger Nano S and Trezor devices. You ideally should not be keeping funds long-term on these wallets, but they're just fine if you want a temporary place to keep your coins. At the end of the day, there's really no perfect solution to securely storing your coins, but some are better than others. I like using hardware wallets as they're relatively simple to use and provide decent security.

[cryptokwuk]

As true as 'ledger does not have your keys' may be at this point. Remember that much of their hardware and software is proprietary and closed source. We don't fully know what the software and hardware does or is capable of doing.

[South Park]

I'm trying to improve/perfect as much as possible the security of my Bitcoin.

My current security is:

snip
4. Only access my BTC on a computer that I rarely use and update the virus software to stop trojan horse/remote access.


I'm wondering a few things though:

snip
2. Is there anything else obvious I can/should do to improve this process?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Since you are using an antivirus I suppose that you are using one of the many versions of Windows OS, if you are really serious about securing your bitcoins then you need to use something else, there are simply too many backdoors and it is impossible to completely secure a computer with a Windows OS, it is better that you use one of the many versions of Linux, if you have no experience with Linux then it could take some time to get used to it but it is worth it since you will know the chances of losing your coins to a hacker will be low, also it could be a good idea to encrypt your computer just to be completely sure you are doing everything you can to avoid to lose your coins.

[vintages]

Keeping it safe is possible but nothing is 100% safe in this modern world so don't be too sure, new technologies are proving us wrong everyday.
Even the toughest device can still be cracked down if those hackers are determined to do so. However it's good to know the length you are going to secure your funds.
Though, I personally feel the major threat are the hackers and thieves, less threat might come from the government.

[pooya87]

it may just be me but i consider hardware wallets to only be good for when you have a large amount of bitcoin and also want to spend it regularly. otherwise they are not good for "storage". for that i still prefer cold storage where you choose a medium that is physically disconnected from the internet, and store your wallet/keys there. now that "medium" could be a piece of paper, wood or metal or it could be an operating system installed on a device that has no internet connection ever.

[xanxus.kun]

As true as 'ledger does not have your keys' may be at this point. Remember that much of their hardware and software is proprietary and closed source. We don't fully know what the software and hardware does or is capable of doing.

I totally agree with this one, I'd rather keep it simple save your keys on a small piece of paper. Put in a secured and safe storage. Its not that I can't trust those third party protection but its better to be safe than sorry right?

[ethereumhunter]

First, I would say you're doing good to secure your wallet.

As long as you save 24 word-phrase and have the back-up, you don't have to afraid if somehow the company closes their business because you can transfer it into another device. There are a lot of devices you can use, like for example, you can use electrum in the computer, android phone, or laptop. The other thing you can do is don't tell other people about how much bitcoin or altcoin you have, don't tell them where you store the wallet, and you're good to go.

[Kakmakr]

The hardware manufacturer designed the device to work with other wallet providers, so you only have to use the "seed" that was generated, when you configured the device, to enable you to "import" those coins onto other wallet provider's software. 

You do not have to use your hardware wallet with the software that were provided by the manufacturer, you can use it with other software to access the coins.    If the company goes bankrupt, other software developers will quickly jump at the opportunity to grab that market with all those customers. 

[antisocial77]

Whatever you do there is always a risk.those suggestions are good ofcourse but they only reduce the risk.shortly cyber world will never be %100 secure.

[BitValve]

The hardware manufacturer designed the device to work with other wallet providers, so you only have to use the "seed" that was generated, when you configured the device, to enable you to "import" those coins onto other wallet provider's software. 

You do not have to use your hardware wallet with the software that were provided by the manufacturer, you can use it with other software to access the coins.    If the company goes bankrupt, other software developers will quickly jump at the opportunity to grab that market with all those customers. 

The seed is actually the 12-24 word seed that you can only use within the hardware device (trezor etc..) in order for the device to recover your funds. Im not sure that you can use these words to recover wallet somewhere else, most probably not. After recovering funds you can then move those funds to any wallet provider software or hardware.

[petrcoin]

We should all be reminded that there is no 100 percent secure system or in this case your Bitcoin holdings and any assumption of its solid

security  would be dangerous and we should always be security conscious and practice those actions mentioned in previous posts. I think

using a hardware wallet would be excellent but I suggest to try to harden your pc security (e.g. use firewalls, antivirus, use VPN, password manager

etc) to make it more harder for intruders to attack your system.

[Lutpin]

The seed is actually the 12-24 word seed that you can only use within the hardware device (trezor etc..) in order for the device to recover your funds. Im not sure that you can use these words to recover wallet somewhere else, most probably not. After recovering funds you can then move those funds to any wallet provider software or hardware.

Technically the 24 words are a mnemonic phrase, from which the seed is created, which then in turn is used to derive a HD wallet from.
Ledger, Trezor and other hardware wallets did not invent the technology that is used to do that, they apply several BIPs in their devices for that.
To list them, there would be:
BIP39 - The wordlists used for mnemonic phrases and how to derive seeds from them.
BIP32 - The method to build HD wallets from a seed.
BIP44 - Extending BIP32 via defined derivation paths.

As you can see, the full path from mnemonic phrase up to the private key/public key pair is done using open source technologies, meaning any other software and hardware wallet can implement the exactly same method.
Such has been done ample times and there is a long list of alternative ways to get to your keys and thus funds in case you lose your device / it becomes unusable.


A few more points of information:

Both the Ledger and the Trezor do use proprietary software, but not in the process of generating keypairs.
slush and stick are co-authors of BIP39 & BIP44, and the founders of SatoshiLabs, the company selling Trezors. So while they created some of the software used, they have made it available to everyone.

[jake zyrus]

I believe you can't secure your bitcoin 100% from them. It is always prone to thieves and hackers as long as it has a value. As long as you monitor and keep them secure, even not with a hundred percent, then you can avoid and lessen the possibility of getting it stolen.

[Aiwei052289]

I only use windows defender anti-virus for my windows PC. Do i need to install a better anti-virus to
prevent my PC from a hacker? btw I also use ledger nano to hodl my coins.

[killat]

Holding your funds in a hardware wallet seems to be the best option for now.

Not sure if it's 100% safe, but I did not hear till now that a hardware wallet to be hacked. However, you should be very careful on how you keep your seed words.

[audaciousbeing]

I only use windows defender anti-virus for my windows PC. Do i need to install a better anti-virus to
prevent my PC from a hacker? btw I also use ledger nano to hodl my coins.

Windows defender to a large extent has been a life saver and I believe its sufficient enough to keep your system safe except its a targeted attack. Also, you might want to install another one if you feel that would give you peace of mind but be careful on the exact one you patronising so you don't bring in issue for yourself in a willingly manner.

Aside from the suggestions on the right way to keep funds safe, I think another way is to do right especially on the part of government. File your returns if needed, pay your tax as at when due and government would be the least of your headaches.

[BitValve]

The seed is actually the 12-24 word seed that you can only use within the hardware device (trezor etc..) in order for the device to recover your funds. Im not sure that you can use these words to recover wallet somewhere else, most probably not. After recovering funds you can then move those funds to any wallet provider software or hardware.

Technically the 24 words are a mnemonic phrase, from which the seed is created, which then in turn is used to derive a HD wallet from.
Ledger, Trezor and other hardware wallets did not invent the technology that is used to do that, they apply several BIPs in their devices for that.
To list them, there would be:
BIP39 - The wordlists used for mnemonic phrases and how to derive seeds from them.
BIP32 - The method to build HD wallets from a seed.
BIP44 - Extending BIP32 via defined derivation paths.

As you can see, the full path from mnemonic phrase up to the private key/public key pair is done using open source technologies, meaning any other software and hardware wallet can implement the exactly same method.
Such has been done ample times and there is a long list of alternative ways to get to your keys and thus funds in case you lose your device / it becomes unusable.


A few more points of information:

Both the Ledger and the Trezor do use proprietary software, but not in the process of generating keypairs.
slush and stick are co-authors of BIP39 & BIP44, and the founders of SatoshiLabs, the company selling Trezors. So while they created some of the software used, they have made it available to everyone.

Okay thats interesting info, that i did not have right in my head. Thanks for for clarifying it, Lutpin.

[BitValve]

I only use windows defender anti-virus for my windows PC. Do i need to install a better anti-virus to
prevent my PC from a hacker? btw I also use ledger nano to hodl my coins.

Ledger Nano and/or Trezor is a good choice ( please read the replies above). Windows are not very "keen" to protect you from "hackers" and/or viruses and i think that Windows Defender is not a good choice for AV. Why dont you download some of the Free Antiviruses available like AVG/Avast etc ?

[barbara44]

I think that you are still good with your forms of securing your account, but that number 2 is what I personally would not do, because it is not everyone that can be as careful as you, and storing your words in multiple places will surely expose you to the risk of being hacked easily because no matter what, those keys will be there for the next 10 years, and within that space of time, you would have done so many things that may even make you forget one or two places where you have kept the words.

My best bet for anything wallet, is just for you to write it out and then store it in your back, then you probably create just an email that you will never share with anyone or any site for people to know it exist, then you keep the words in there, I think two places is much more than enough.

[Duzter]

I don't have much of funds, upon the same I never consider the security to be a big threat. Most of my funds were in exchanges, gambling websites and online exchanges. Maybe this seems completely insecure, but this is far better to stay away from governments. Also I never reveal to an outsider that I'm cryptocurrency user which might create some threat for me from thieves.

[kecha1]

Make no mistake. Do not share your personal information with strangers. Do not make suspicious transactions.

[Nnuego]

100% is not possible as long as computers are involved.

Also if bad people know about you having a lot of Bitcoins, they could use traditional methods, like torturing etc.

The safest way then is never to tell anybody about the amount of bitcoin you have. Never disclose to anyone you're investing in bitcoin cos everyone is a suspect. Nobody to trust in terms of money issues. It's better to play safe and wise and in your dealings

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I haven't tried real crypto wallet like ledger nano but i have seen my friend using trezor is that the same thing? I am still using the application wallet on mobile and secure devices that I have never used for browsing. so I think saving on a secure device and never being used to browse something weird or suspicious I think our wallet can be safe.

[Leyss]

It seems to me that whatever we do in cryptocurrency, and one hundred percent we won’t be able to secure ourselves from thieves and hackers. This will be an almost eternal confrontation and an eternal problem for cryptocurrency users. The measures taken, of course, can greatly increase our chances, however, confidence can only be when we put our cryptocurrency in cold storage and do not connect to the Internet.
Now there is information that soon it will be possible to conduct transactions offline, however, this will still require improvements and will create other difficulties and problems for us.

[crzy]

Hard wallet is the best, especially the new ledger where you don’t need to connect your ledger manually. Hackers will have a hard time to hack you, not unless you mistakenly save the details of your wallet on a not safe place. Ledger wallet is the best hard wallet for me, they work smoothly. 

[buwaytress]

Hard wallet is the best, especially the new ledger where you don’t need to connect your ledger manually. Hackers will have a hard time to hack you, not unless you mistakenly save the details of your wallet on a not safe place. Ledger wallet is the best hard wallet for me, they work smoothly. 

There are a number of new hardware wallets all trying to prevent this: online connection. It doesn't get very much secure than that but if you don't practise basic security then you could be vulnerable at other points without even getting to the stage of external hackers. For example, is your device itself compromised from within?

Do you store the keys securely and independently from the wallet? Won't help if you still keep the private key in an email somewhere!