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Author Topic: How scalable is Blockchain in terms of size/speed?  (Read 448 times)
cuttie018
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August 29, 2019, 04:35:53 PM
 #1

I wonder, how scalable is the Blockchain in terms of size of data. It grows every day and the speed of data processing on the server side must inevitably go down. Am I right? Where can I read about this? I'm sure there was some analysis done already. Thanks!
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August 29, 2019, 05:31:12 PM
 #2

Why do you believe that the increase in size of Blockchain can cut down its data processing speed? It has been witnessed that whenever the size has increased, the community have always come up with some solution every time and dealt with the issues. Those were the times when it was possible that the speed of data processing may have gone down due to blockage in mempool, but this is not the case any more. People are using different nature of technology i.e.; SegWit and helping the network save both energy and data consumption whereas going up with the speeds it is achieving at a daily pace.

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August 29, 2019, 05:48:48 PM
 #3

* Speed of data processing depends on how many transaction broadcasted/created while your node is running
* There's no correlation between blockchain size with data processing speed since "old" transaction/block already verified.
* There's no thing such as "server side", unless you meant "full node client"

But in general, that depends on how much trade-off (initial hardware cost, cost to run full node, IBD time, etc.) is acceptable.

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August 30, 2019, 02:50:18 AM
 #4

Blockchains do not scale on-chain globally, decentralized ones at least (and that is, the Bitcoin blockchain, the rest aren't decentralized). In order to keep the whole thing from collapsing upon itself, there's a fee market. If you want prioritize your transaction, pay an higher fee.

With clever tricks like segwit you can keep squeezing on-chain transactions in for cheaper prices, but the future is second layer scaling. You cannot exponentially keep raising the blocksize, it has to be lineal growth so it's predictable, beside the fact that the game theory doesn't allow you to hardfork every time someone feels like "we need to scale".
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August 30, 2019, 04:23:57 AM
 #5

Blockchains do not scale on-chain globally, decentralized ones at least (and that is, the Bitcoin blockchain, the rest aren't decentralized). In order to keep the whole thing from collapsing upon itself, there's a fee market. If you want prioritize your transaction, pay an higher fee.

With clever tricks like segwit you can keep squeezing on-chain transactions in for cheaper prices, but the future is second layer scaling. You cannot exponentially keep raising the blocksize, it has to be lineal growth so it's predictable, beside the fact that the game theory doesn't allow you to hardfork every time someone feels like "we need to scale".


Segwit is a joke, and secondary solutions are just that secondary,
if the primary onchain jams up the secondary will also fail.  Tongue

The Future will require a larger blocksize or a faster blocktime, deny it all you like.
When transactions fees start exceeding $20 and it takes days to complete a transaction,
there will be an outrage demanding a hard fork or everyone will just move to another coin that provides onchain scaling.

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August 30, 2019, 07:29:56 AM
 #6


I wonder, how scalable is the Blockchain in terms of size of data.


A blockchain that's merely a chain of blocks running in a datacenter might be very scalable, and very fast. Like Paypal.

Quote

It grows every day and the speed of data processing on the server side must inevitably go down.


That's the cost the server should bear.

Quote

Am I right? Where can I read about this? I'm sure there was some analysis done already. Thanks!


If asking about Bitcoin, I believe the question should be, "what's the maximum block size can the network bear today, without centralizing the network? - If a hard fork was a non-issue."




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September 09, 2019, 01:07:54 AM
 #7

Blockchains do not scale on-chain globally, decentralized ones at least (and that is, the Bitcoin blockchain, the rest aren't decentralized). In order to keep the whole thing from collapsing upon itself, there's a fee market. If you want prioritize your transaction, pay an higher fee.

With clever tricks like segwit you can keep squeezing on-chain transactions in for cheaper prices, but the future is second layer scaling. You cannot exponentially keep raising the blocksize, it has to be lineal growth so it's predictable, beside the fact that the game theory doesn't allow you to hardfork every time someone feels like "we need to scale".


Segwit is a joke, and secondary solutions are just that secondary,
if the primary onchain jams up the secondary will also fail.  Tongue

The Future will require a larger blocksize or a faster blocktime, deny it all you like.
When transactions fees start exceeding $20 and it takes days to complete a transaction,
there will be an outrage demanding a hard fork or everyone will just move to another coin that provides onchain scaling.


Precisely, the reason you guarantee the primary doesn't fall is by protocol solidification, derived from a de-facto reached decentralization which Only Bitcoin has reached, organically (no other way). You build on top of this, so if what you build falls, you have a place to fall back. Granted, the impact on price and hashrate would be felt, however, Bitcoin would outlive a fatal second layer error/exploit, as well as a fatal segwit error/exploit. This requires many years of studying Bitcoin and understanding the fine layers of game theory around it. By the time you reach this point, you may have lost half of your BTC stack in a variety of shitcoins which promised you to solve whatever you considered to be problem but proven to be a solution in practice.
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September 12, 2019, 06:46:28 AM
 #8

Scalability has a capacity to change in size and scale by measuring the ability of a process, network, software, or organization to grow and manage increased demand. Blockchain is a potential technology that disrupts and improvises industries and traditionally centralized systems. Blockchain technology scale and processes transactions at speed, way above its alternatives with enhanced capabilities.
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September 12, 2019, 08:11:33 AM
 #9

I wonder, how scalable is the Blockchain in terms of size of data. It grows every day and the speed of data processing on the server side must inevitably go down. Am I right? Where can I read about this? I'm sure there was some analysis done already. Thanks!

The size of the blockchain itself has no effect on the future transaction processing speed.

With p2p databases (no matter if blockchain, distributed hash tables or dynamo) one generally distinguishes between vertical and horizontal scaling.

Horizontal scaling means adding more nodes. Since in a blockchain network every transaction has to be processed by every node, there is no added value.
Vertical scaling means a larger maximum block size. This would increase the throughput, but at the same time the blockchain would quickly increase in size.
(and a larger blockchain usually implies a more centralized system)

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September 14, 2019, 08:35:37 AM
 #10

Newbies should start reading/learning about what's important about Bitcoin, its blockchain, and learn why the decisions taken by the Core developers is the better path. Security, decentralization, censorship-resistance, and finality.


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September 19, 2019, 07:59:10 PM
 #11

the decisions taken by the Core developers...
vs
....censorship-resistance

and yet core are the censors....
just look at how many bips and idea's they have censored
just look at how many dev teams they threw out the community

you have certainly drunk the core koolaid

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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September 20, 2019, 04:22:37 AM
 #12

Newbies should start reading/learning about what's important about Bitcoin, its blockchain, and learn why the decisions taken by the Core developers is the better path. Security, decentralization, censorship-resistance, and finality.

Security= 4 mining pool operators
decentralization = 4 mining pools with over 51%   of all Hashrate , all the time
censorship-resistance = btc to fiat gateways are regulated by the Government in many countries
Miners energy usage is regulated by these same governments, miners will comply or have their power turned off.
finality= core devs sold out bitcoin to the Bankers LN secondary network

That about sums it up.  Smiley

Newbies should realize wind_fury is a core dev butt monkey with no intellect of his own.


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September 20, 2019, 06:40:42 AM
 #13

the decisions taken by the Core developers...
vs
....censorship-resistance

and yet core are the censors....
just look at how many bips and idea's they have censored
just look at how many dev teams they threw out the community

you have certainly drunk the core koolaid


Censorship-resistance, and security of Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency through decentralization, and your complaints about a group of developers who reject some "ideas" are two different things.

Why? You want me to drink the Roger Ver kool aid?


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September 20, 2019, 10:54:12 AM
 #14

Censorship-resistance, and security of Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency through decentralization, and your complaints about a group of developers who reject some "ideas" are two different things.

Why? You want me to drink the Roger Ver kool aid?

1. by a group even being able to reject an idea before the whole community get to try it. is censorship
2. by a group being able to ban other teams off the network because they dont agree, is censorship
3. by you thinking that a person thats not core hugging must be opposition, is censorship
sorry but i dont follow ver.. but i do love how you show your colours of your desire for censorship by trying to say anyone that doesnt love core must be in some other group.
in bitcoin there should not be one controling implementation/group. there should be no banning other idea's off the network before new rules even get a chance of find consensus.. purely to push through one groups goals without opposition

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September 20, 2019, 11:21:24 AM
 #15

Blockchains do not scale. If you want to keep them decentralized (which I think is the whole point of even having a blockchain to begin with).

You can scale them by building layers on top of the base blockchain, which is very similar to how traditional payment rails work.

So side chains or solutions like the Lightning Network are the way of scaling blockchains, without actually scaling the base layer.

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September 20, 2019, 02:20:56 PM
 #16

Newbies should start reading/learning about what's important about Bitcoin, its blockchain, and learn why the decisions taken by the Core developers is the better path. Security, decentralization, censorship-resistance, and finality.

Despite the development side going fairly well in my opinion over the years. You shouldn't blindly follow anyone, and should always be looking to challenge, and better a system such as Bitcoin. They aren't always going to be making the right decisions for Bitcoin as I think that's somewhat impossible. Fortunately, the consensus usually picks a fairly good option, but maybe not always the best.

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September 20, 2019, 03:23:37 PM
 #17

Blockchains do not scale. If you want to keep them decentralized (which I think is the whole point of even having a blockchain to begin with).

You can scale them by building layers on top of the base blockchain, which is very similar to how traditional payment rails work.

So side chains or solutions like the Lightning Network are the way of scaling blockchains, without actually scaling the base layer.

Every Blockchain but bitcoin scales.
They increase blocksize or have a faster blockspeed.

Layers/side chains is a cop-out by people whose only real motive is to add a fractional reserve banking network to replace the original.
The direct opposite of satoshi original vision of removing middle men.

The fact is LN hubs will uses modern computers which transacts in seconds,
while bitcoin nodes will use outdated technology, which is too pathetic to keep up.  Tongue
How fucking lame are people to believe that stupidity.

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September 20, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
 #18

people say it cant scale due to storage(facepalm)

in the 1990's kodak said digital photography wont scale because a floppy disk is only 1.4mb
today, digital media smaller then the size of a postage stamp(24x physical size smaller then floppy)

and each microxd stores 1,024,000mb


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September 20, 2019, 05:59:10 PM
 #19

I definitely agree with Franky that storage in the future isn't going to be an issue. Storage continues to get better (bigger), faster, and cheaper. A few years ago a terabyte cost a lot of money when they first got released, but we are seeing them reduce to almost nothing these days, and everyone even older people who don't use computers that often have 1TB hard drives. At the moment, we don't see storage becoming a problem, and the evolution of storage isn't showing any indications that its going to slow down.

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September 20, 2019, 07:04:46 PM
 #20

Newbies should start reading/learning about what's important about Bitcoin, its blockchain, and learn why the decisions taken by the Core developers is the better path. Security, decentralization, censorship-resistance, and finality.

While i agree with most of Core developers/contributor decision, that doesn't mean you should agree to them blindly or don't see other side of story/perspective.

people say it cant scale due to storage(facepalm)
--snip--

Good point @franky1, storage capacity has never been problem when we're talking about hardware limitation. The only valid concern about storage is storage speed (random read/write), HDD has been proven :
1. Slowing down IBD (Initial Block Download)
2. Can't keep up when the Blockchain/Cryptocurrency network is very active. For example, you must use SSD to run Electrun full/archival node.

Even so, SSD price continually dropped in past few years. You could get 1TB only with $100 and with same cost, you only get 4TB of HDD (which have far slower random read/write speed).

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