Bakkt

[fillippone]

OK. This is time for when BAKKT was founded. Yesterdays volume was almost as much as highest weekly volume so far.

https://twitter.com/BakktBot/status/1288463064115949571


$137 million vs  $146 million at second week of this year.   This week will be a record by far.

Quick question, how much of that was actual bitcoin changing hands?

Bakkt future are physically settled, so volumes are literally the measure of daily “bitcoin changing hands”.
Instead “Open Interest” are the number of Bitcoin That will exchange hands at the expiry of the future.

You can learn more here:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC futures but were afraid to ask!

Hope it helps.

[1714671184]

1714671184

[Hueristic]

OK. This is time for when BAKKT was founded. Yesterdays volume was almost as much as highest weekly volume so far.

https://twitter.com/BakktBot/status/1288463064115949571


$137 million vs  $146 million at second week of this year.   This week will be a record by far.

Quick question, how much of that was actual bitcoin changing hands?

Bakkt future are physically settled, so volumes are literally the measure of daily “bitcoin changing hands”.
Instead “Open Interest” are the number of Bitcoin That will exchange hands at the expiry of the future.

You can learn more here:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC futures but were afraid to ask!

Hope it helps.

Thats not true those settled coins are not changing hands on the chain.

If you think they are then please feel free to show me the addressees.

[fillippone]

OK. This is time for when BAKKT was founded. Yesterdays volume was almost as much as highest weekly volume so far.

https://twitter.com/BakktBot/status/1288463064115949571


$137 million vs  $146 million at second week of this year.   This week will be a record by far.

Quick question, how much of that was actual bitcoin changing hands?

Bakkt future are physically settled, so volumes are literally the measure of daily “bitcoin changing hands”.
Instead “Open Interest” are the number of Bitcoin That will exchange hands at the expiry of the future.

You can learn more here:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC futures but were afraid to ask!

Hope it helps.

Thats not true those settled coins are not changing hands on the chain.

If you think they are then please feel free to show me the addressees.

The futue volmume don't move bitcoin on the chain.
Open Interest will eventually move bitcoins at the expiry of the future. With a proper on chain transaction.
Bakkt physical futures deliver bitcoin to the BAKKT digital wharehouse, the digital custodian for bitcoins to be settled on future expiries at Bakkt:

The launch of the Bakkt Warehouse, our regulated custodian and part of Bakkt Trust Company, allows for the safe, secure storage of bitcoin. It represents a milestone as we prepare for the launch of the Bakkt Bitcoin Daily and Monthly Futures contracts on ICE Futures U.S. The Bakkt Warehouse was built using the same institutional grade infrastructure, operational controls, and security protections that support the world’s most actively traded markets, including the New York Stock Exchange, and was designed to meet the highest standards of compliance and oversight.

https://www.bakkt.com/blog/institutional/the-bakkt-warehouse-is-open-for-business

Regarding the addresses, I don't know them, but of course we are speaking of real bitcoins traded on the blockchain.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Funny that this thread was bumped today, because I was just thinking about Bakkt yesterday and how there hasn't been much discussion about it in quite a long time.  There was so much anticipation prior to its launch, and then once it opened up for business, things seemed to have gone flat.

I always thought futures contracts were settled in cash rather than the underlying asset--in fact, I'm almost certain that's the case with typical commodities.  And I figured the same would be true with Bakkt and the bitcoin futures contracts it offers.  The whole thing with futures markets is that you're betting on the price of a certain commodity, usually as a hedge, and traders normally don't want to take possession of barrels of oil or pork bellies or whatever.

I'm somewhat curious about this, and I'll read the link fillippone provided, but I still think these institutional investors that use Bakkt aren't looking to buy or sell bitcoin outright--and if that's the case I wouldn't imagine there's much bitcoin changing hands.

[fillippone]

I always thought futures contracts were settled in cash rather than the underlying asset--in fact, I'm almost certain that's the case with typical commodities.

I think I have explained in my futures thread I have already linked above: BAKKT futures are a first in bitcoin futures because they settle physically.
Contrary to what you said, usually commodity futures settle physical: the infamous negative spike in oil futures a few months ago was also due to the fact that the "tanks'' in Cushing OK, where the futures has to be delivered, were already almost full, so there was no way to do de delivery. Coffee, copper and other commodities have their own  physically settled futures.
Of course in the realm of cryptos the delivery itself has a novelty to be managed, so this is why BAKKT futures are so important.
Regarding the "bitcoin exchanging hands", I might have misunderstood. Anyway when dealing with futures, bitcoin exchanges only at the expiration of the future, with the final settlement of the Open Interest.

I think it is natural this thread was bumped again after BAKKT broke twice in two days his ATH on Traded volume:

Tuesday's Bakkt Bitcoin Monthly Futures:

Chart with upwards trend Traded contracts: 12214 ($137.83 million, +42%)  (New ATH Rocket)
Rocket All time high: 12214 (7/28/2020)
Money bag Open interest: $14.43 million (+83%)

Did I help you by crunching data? Send me some sats: https://tippin.me/@BakktBot

https://twitter.com/BakktBot/status/1288359322318245888?s=20

[exstasie]

I think it is natural this thread was bumped again after BAKKT broke twice in two days his ATH on Traded volume:

Highest volume on Coinbase Pro in 2.5 months too.

Volume tends to confirm trend breakouts. For me, these instances of high volume indicate that bullish continuation is likely. Bulls are in control. Unless an obvious failure below $10K occurs in the next couple days, I expect bulls to keep pushing higher to $12K+.

[Hueristic]

This explains it pretty well. It was sold as physically settled bitcoin contract when in reality it is a wash traded in house settled token setup.

As the name suggest, Bakkt is supposed to be a physically backed futures contract settled in actual Bitcoin (rather than cash like CME futures).

Bakkt is not actually backed by Bitcoin

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

So, what are the real numbers?

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

It should be called Bakkt Casino as that is exactly what it is, with the only winners being the house.

[fillippone]

<...>
So, what are the real numbers?

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

It should be called Bakkt Casino as that is exactly what it is, with the only winners being the house.

No conspiracy theory here. What you are looking at is the difference between future volumes and futures open interest at settlement. You are basically comparing the 137 usd millions daily volumes with the 14 millions of open interest at maturity date. Be aware that this is something common to every future in every asset class: I haven’t any statistic here ready available, but for every future the daily volumes are a double digit multiple of final settlements (this is particularly true for commodities like oil). Also rolling maturities is a common practice, when only the first future is liquid.

[exstasie]

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

So, what are the real numbers?

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

Wall Street came to speculate. What were you expecting?

This is how it is in traditional commodities markets too. Traders have no interest in physical settlement, and that's who generates the majority of volume. They roll over contracts to maintain their positions while avoiding settlement costs and fees.

[Hueristic]

<...>
So, what are the real numbers?

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

It should be called Bakkt Casino as that is exactly what it is, with the only winners being the house.

No conspiracy theory here. What you are looking at is the difference between future volumes and futures open interest at settlement. You are basically comparing the 137 usd millions daily volumes with the 14 millions of open interest at maturity date. Be aware that this is something common to every future in every asset class: I haven’t any statistic here ready available, but for every future the daily volumes are a double digit multiple of final settlements (this is particularly true for commodities like oil). Also rolling maturities is a common practice, when only the first future is liquid.

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

So, what are the real numbers?

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

Wall Street came to speculate. What were you expecting?

This is how it is in traditional commodities markets too. Traders have no interest in physical settlement, and that's who generates the majority of volume. They roll over contracts to maintain their positions while avoiding settlement costs and fees.

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

[fillippone]

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

I give a different interpretation to the above sentence. First of all, yes for sure there is no leverage or margin trading on BAKKT, I mean, no more than it is normal with a future. But what the above sentences mean is that at the delivery the bitcoin is fully collateralised, as the buyer and the seller have both posted initial margin upon trade inception, and then they have regulated variation margin on a daily basis according to the daily settlement of the future. This means at expiry the seller of the contract has already paid the payoff of the future. This means it is fully collateralised.

[exstasie]

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

A promise of full collateralization isn't a promise that every contract bought will be held for physical delivery.

Bakkt can't force traders to take delivery, any more than the ICE can force crude oil traders to take delivery on barrels of oil. That's why the WTI contract went negative a few months ago. Too many speculators trying to roll over with no bid liquidity.

The ability to take physical delivery is extremely important because it allows direct arbitrage to the spot market, even if most contract holders don't exercise the option. This means Bakkt can theoretically affect price discovery where CME cash settled futures really can't.

This is similar to how Tether keeps USDT pegged. Not many people redeem for dollars, but the ability to do so keeps the peg in line through arbitrage.

[Hueristic]

pre-funded



Keep trying to help them weasel out.

[exstasie]

Keep trying to help them weasel out.

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC.

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

[Hueristic]

Keep trying to help them weasel out.

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC.

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

Yup. keep believing wallstreet is not running of the Fed reserve tittties.

they came to scoop off the market cap and shake confidence.

WHY do you think the price hasn'tr gone up in years? You think thats organic or history repeating itself?

'You forget to take into account Knowledge Doubling Curve, everyone knows what bitcoin is now.

EDY: sorry watsted tobigh and misread your relp. thye ARE accumilating as cheaply as possible burning siezed coins and brrr'd fiat and they keep dumping it to shake confidence.


BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

which it stilll is cause they can't jhold the dam back forebver.

fuck u cna spell check i gotta pass out

[exstasie]

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC.

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

Yup. keep believing wallstreet is not running of the Fed reserve tittties.

they came to scoop off the market cap and shake confidence.

WHY do you think the price hasn'tr gone up in years? You think thats organic or history repeating itself?

Why couldn't it be organic? It's only logical that a multi-year bear market might follow a bubble pop.

'You forget to take into account Knowledge Doubling Curve, everyone knows what bitcoin is now.

Everyone knows what Bitcoin is, after 2017. Have they bought in yet?

thye ARE accumilating as cheaply as possible burning siezed coins and brrr'd fiat and they keep dumping it to shake confidence.

You think they are doing it on spot exchanges? They obviously aren't accumulating real BTC on Bakkt, and they can't accumulate real BTC using CME futures.

BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

I buy enough into the anti-fragility narrative that I'm not too worried about it. If Bitcoin was ever going to be successful, it was going to be attacked this way.

[fillippone]

BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

I buy enough into the anti-fragility narrative that I'm not too worried about it. If Bitcoin was ever going to be successful, it was going to be attacked this way.

I really didn't understand the argument here, but I do agree with you: Wall Street came here to speculate, they don't like or hate Bitcoin, they just see it as another source of income for their bankers. Incidentally, also their client could possibly profit from this, but it's not the main purpose of their acting.
IS this attack rogue and facilitated by CB's brr? YEs, of course.
Is that fair? I don't care
Does Bitcoin have to survive this and other attacks to prove himself as a reliable Store of Value, like Gold has proven itself over the last 4,000 years? Of course.

[casperBGD]

^snip
Does Bitcoin have to survive this and other attacks to prove himself as a reliable Store of Value, like Gold has proven itself over the last 4,000 years? Of course.

agree, BTC is a good idea, and also a functional product with limited number of users at the moment, but have to prove on large scale to be taken as one reliable store of value
it is not just, we are taking it for granted, and other should follow suite, no, has to be proven, verified with large number of users

[Febo]

Last weeks volume dwarf all previous weeks. $434 million.  I am sure this and more will be the new normal in 2021.

[exstasie]

Bakkt is not actually backed by Bitcoin

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

It didn't dawn on me until now that these numbers were from last year, shortly after Bakkt launched.

The number of BTC being physically delivered each month has increased an order of magnitude since then. The high so far was 293 BTC in March. Not as bad as we thought:



Maybe Wall Street really is starting to use Bakkt to accumulate.