Using Locktime for inheritance planning, backups or gifts

[LoyceV]

I think you may have to set up a separate set of funds for each time-frame as I have a feeling that wallets are swept clean when this process is done.

You can use the same wallet, as long as it has multiple inputs and you use only one at a time.
You can't create a Locktime transaction for funds that haven't arrived in a change address yet.

[SatsLife]

TL;DR
~snip~

Excellent thread.

I was looking for more information on how to lock up Bitcoin for the long-term.

I have the unfortunately habit of selling at the very bottom, only to regret it several months (or even years) later.

Time to forcefully put an end to my misery!

you will find this interesting then... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228739.0

[Timelord2067]

Can anyone help?

Do I then send funds to 36aGPF8dhu9Wg8RDtSRUpuiNzLA9UaNXSZ until the 5^th of November this year and then go to the URL and click "verify"?

Is it just that simple, or, am I missing something? (Thanks for this titbit of information)

the "verify" button is simply translating the script into human readable form which is what you can do on your own too. the first 5 bytes (04+e0b3a25f) is your epoch time in little endian for which is Wednesday, November 4, 2020 2:00:00 PM GMT (yes that is a bug in coinb.in that uses your local time instead of converting it). the next two are OP_CLV and OP_DROP and the next 34 bytes are your public key and finally the OP_CHECKSIG.

the problem you may face is for spending this since there is no easy way of doing it as far as i can tell.

Am I doing something wrong?

http://coinb.in/?verify=04e0b3a25fb1752102614dc59a3f561b47337e192c439850e7b6d36e357e1c883756168ef11ba3f960ac#verify

Code:

04e0b3a25f - b1 - 752102614dc59a3f561b47337e192c4398 - 50e7b6d36e357e1c883756168ef11ba3f960ac

the next two are OP_CLV and OP_DROP

I'm guessing "the next two" aren't one character long each?

The submit button also doesn't work.  (I've tried it with a date that's already come and gone)


I can broadcast a Raw transaction, that's ok, I'm just stuck working out which part is the actual transaction.

Thanks.

[pooya87]

Code:

04e0b3a25f - b1 - 752102614dc59a3f561b47337e192c4398 - 50e7b6d36e357e1c883756168ef11ba3f960ac

the next two are OP_CLV and OP_DROP

I'm guessing "the next two" aren't one character long each?

the text inside the code tags is written in hexadecimal encoding (aka base-16) and in this encoding each 2 characters represent 1 byte. for example 1 = 0x01, 255=0xff
in bitcoin scripts each OP code is 1 byte, so each one of those two (OP_CLV and OP_DROP) that are also 1 byte take up two characters: 0xb1 and 0x75 respectively.

[Jet Cash]

Surely if the lock down was any use, then you wouldn't need to bother with inheritance planning.

[Timelord2067]

Surely if the lock down was any use, then you wouldn't need to bother with inheritance planning.

You can use the time to plan your getaway, your diversion and a place to stash your funds while in lock-down.  There are plenty of movies where the criminals plan their next heist while in lock-up, come out then go back into lock-up.

[LoyceV]

@Jet Cash: I created this topic long before any lockdown. With or without lockdown, roughly 150,000 people per day die.

[erikoy]

Wow, this is a sort of a good way in making bitcoin as a wealth pass it to the next generation until such time that they will be allow to use or spend it.

Bitcoin is one good digital currency and I do believe that it will be adapted to the community over a period of time. This may not going to happen fast but at least it is already making their way for community adaptation. Bitcoin will be useful than any other currencies in the world.

Transferring money outside the country will be easy in a decentralized manner same as making payments and using it to buy products and services. This is an all in one digital cryptocurrency.

[Gotumoot]

I never knew that we could create a transaction right now and would take place in the future.
I think I really need to try it out to save money since I always end up spending the extra money that I have maybe this could be the answer for me to finally be able to save money.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I had heard about locktime before, but never took a look into it. This is actually a pretty nice solution to the inheritance of bitcoins. Still though, the receiving addresses of the signed transaction must remain on a safe place all that time. Thus, the people that will inherit the bitcoins must be fully informed of what it is.

Once again, bitcoin proved that you don't need a third party for another financial procedure!

[DYING_S0UL]

One month bump

One month bump

Bump into 2022.

Bump into 2023!

Bump into 2024 (almost)

Isn't there a simple version? I could just divide the seeds or private keys into three or four different parts. Then assume I have 2–3 children. They all get a piece of my private keys. And I keep one or two parts in my will. I could make multiple wills; when a specific will is valid, the other will is valid after some days.

Of course, there is a risk if they expose the private keys before my death. I never had or used any will. So I don't know if they are secure or not. Whether they can be manipulated or not. So I don't know if this method is practical or not.

I hope you will shine some light on it. Disadvantage & disadvantage of using a will.

[LoyceV]

Isn't there a simple version?
~
Of course, there is a risk if they expose the private keys before my death.

You said it That's the risk you should avoid.

I never had or used any will. So I don't know if they are secure or not.

Here, you'd have to use a notary. They're supposed to be trusted, but they're also human. And it would be impossible to prove if they used your private key, so I wouldn't risk it.

[apogio]

This is one of the best topics in the forum.

I am wondering if I could use it for emergency reasons.

I am thinking of following the steps below:

1. I have a wallet (let's call it "CLAIRE"), in which I have some UTXOs and I want to send them all in case something happened to me.
2. I will create a wallet using Electrum on Tails on a permanently airgapped pc. Let's call this wallet "STEVE".
    a. I will keep dual backup of the seed phrase.
    b. I will take the first address from the first (default) account of this wallet.
3. I will create and sign a transaction from CLAIRE to STEVE's address (from step 2b). I will add a locktime (let's say 10 years from now - or more).
4. I will export and save the transaction both on paper and digitally.

Now, is the tricky part.

I need to let someone know where to find the seed phrase backup & the transaction.

Thoughts - Questions:
1. I will save the backups in 2 separate places, but in each place I am thinking of leaving both the transaction and the seed phrase, since STEVE is empty and it can't be funded for 10 years.
2. How would I notify the people I want on how to find the backups without exposing the backups to danger?
3. Would you also leave instructions on how to find CLAIRE's seed phrase? It is kind of dangerous, considering that this wallet is already funded.

[LoyceV]

I need to let someone know where to find the seed phrase backup & the transaction.

Thoughts - Questions:
1. I will save the backups in 2 separate places, but in each place I am thinking of leaving both the transaction and the seed phrase, since STEVE is empty and it can't be funded for 10 years.
2. How would I notify the people I want on how to find the backups without exposing the backups to danger?
3. Would you also leave instructions on how to find CLAIRE's seed phrase? It is kind of dangerous, considering that this wallet is already funded.

To be clear: in this scenario you're assuming you're dead, right?

1. That should work, but if the location is compromised and someone gains access, he can patiently wait for the transaction to become valid and take your funds. So if you're still alive, it's best if you move your funds before the locktime expires.
2. This is more of an IRL problem than a Bitcoin problem. How do you usually get notified when someone dies? Someone else will have to take care of it for you.
3. That really depends on your personal situation. A spouse? Yes. A friend? No.

[apogio]

To be clear: in this scenario you're assuming you're dead, right?

Yes! that's the assumption.

1. That should work, but if the location is compromised and someone gains access, he can patiently wait for the transaction to become valid and take your funds. So if you're still alive, it's best if you move your funds before the locktime expires.
2. This is more of an IRL problem than a Bitcoin problem. How do you usually get notified when someone dies? Someone else will have to take care of it for you.
3. That really depends on your personal situation. A spouse? Yes. A friend? No.

If I die, then step (2) will happen.

In step (2), a person I trust will get notified with the necessary instructions and will try to gain access to the backups from step (1). So, they will be able to realise if the keys are compromised.

If they are not compromised, we are good. They can wait and get the money when needed.

If they are compromised, then, I need step (3) in which another (or the same person) will be able to recover my Original seed phrase and just spend the UTXOs, rendering the Locktime transaction invalid.

So again, the problem is:
1. How I would notify my beneficiary about the key and the timelocked transaction.
2. How can I trust someone (and who) with information regarding my original wallet that signed the timelocked transaction.

I sound paranoid, I know, but if I solve those two issues, then I will be very confident and I will beta-test ( ) my inheritance plan.

[LoyceV]

So again, the problem is:
1. How I would notify my beneficiary about the key and the timelocked transaction.

That's what I meant with "an IRL problem". You could setup a death man switch that sends an email if you don't reset the timer, but chances are you're going to forget it somewhere over the next 10 years. Or your system breaks at some point. It's not perfect.
A notary might work, but I wouldn't trust them either. They're great for legal paper work, but with Bitcoin there's no paper trail if they would commit fraud.

2. How can I trust someone (and who) with information regarding my original wallet that signed the timelocked transaction.

That's for you to figure out Who would you trust with $10k in small unmarked bills? Or, if it's $10M we're talking about: who do you trust not to kill you to stop you from resetting the locktime?

I sound paranoid, I know, but if I solve those two issues, then I will be very confident and I will beta-test ( ) my inheritance plan.

I'd start by discussing this with your beneficiary. I assume that's someone you trust, right?

[apogio]

That's what I meant with "an IRL problem". You could setup a death man switch that sends an email if you don't reset the timer, but chances are you're going to forget it somewhere over the next 10 years. Or your system breaks at some point. It's not perfect.
A notary might work, but I wouldn't trust them either. They're great for legal paper work, but with Bitcoin there's no paper trail if they would commit fraud.

Nope, I don't like any of these options for the reasons you have mentionned.

That's for you to figure out Who would you trust with $10k in small unmarked bills? Or, if it's $10M we're talking about: who do you trust not to kill you to stop you from resetting the locktime?

Nobody!

I'd start by discussing this with your beneficiary. I assume that's someone you trust, right?

Well yeah, it's the only reasonable option anyway.


Well it has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's indeed a IRL problem...