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Carlton Banks
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September 02, 2019, 07:08:32 AM
 #21

7-8 years ago there were password stealers who could bypass Sandboxie and had Anti-Sandbox options, I don't even know what is possible with the technological advancements today. 

as mentioned VM's can have backdoors


My reply came before your assertions:

  • Non-persistant filesystem stops malware from sticking after a reboot

what this means is that malware can do what it likes, because the VM it infects is simply a copy of a template VM that is thrown away every time you shut it down. there's also a system that destroys the user file system on shutdown also.

I've literally spent the last 5-6 years opening 30-100 "Disposable VM's" every time I sit down to use my PC. The hypervisor that shepherds the VMs is very small, and so even though I couldn't and wouldn't scrutinize the code, I can and do compile it, and there are people who can read and understand that codebase because of it's relatively small size.


please don't reply to posts if you're not even going to read them, thank you

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September 02, 2019, 07:43:17 AM
 #22

I personally need AV, I like downloading and installing Windows software needs, if you find a file that is suspected to contain a virus it can be obtained at the same time as carrying it. Windows Defender only cleans viruses, the files will still be there. In addition to being vicious, third-party antivirus usually uses software or game b * jakan and cr * ck as a virus.

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September 02, 2019, 08:29:59 AM
 #23

I don't think the AV is useless because as far as I've seen, the AV help the user to prevent the malware, virus, or even attacking from the other connection. The AV will alert the user to block, scan, or do something related to the current situations. It is up to the user if they want to install any of AV because I am sure that the user will want to protect their computer from something that can damage their computer. When we install Windows 10, the software has Windows Defender that will help the user to protect from the incoming attack, but we need to have the other AV to support and prevent the attacking.

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September 02, 2019, 08:40:04 AM
 #24

In fact AV can really help you not to lose your funds, so my opinion on this is categorical
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September 02, 2019, 10:13:28 AM
 #25

I think any user of internet should have at least some basic protection in terms of antivirus / firewall / antimalware, but most consider it unnecessary. Computers that have no protection will surely become infected over time, no matter how careful the owner is when surfing the internet. Bad things are not only on porn or torrent sites, you can get virus or malware even on this forum if you click on wrong link.

But some people think that using of any antivirus is enough, which is by no means true. In my opinion it is always better to use some reputable software, but most of them are not free, which is also reason enough for some not to use them.

In my 5+ years of using cryptocurrency on Windows OS, I was never get any virus / malware or get hacked, even if I use my PC for torrents, faucets or other potentially dangerous sites. Each attack attempt was successfully stopped by my security software, so for me it would be totally frivolous not to use security software.

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September 02, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
 #26

And of course that they may send info "home", you'll have to live with that. Actually Windows also sends info "home" and if you have Windows, you already live with that.

yep


I've read that some Linux distributions (Mint?) also do that.

yep (Ubuntu does something similar also)


So .. what's the difference? One has to know all the news the sysadmins are reading (and configure accordingly) and then he'll have the safest system.

well, there's Linux users here on this forum. everything you need to know to get started is above: don't use Mint or Ubuntu (or Windows) if you want privacy. Don't use Windows if you want security, online or offline.

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September 02, 2019, 10:07:17 PM
 #27

Well, you have obviously not been the victim of the latest Ransomware viruses that use Bitcoin as a payment option. Our company was targeted for this and all the computers with outdated AV Software got infected and files got encrypted. The other computers with the latest updates are still running without any problem.

A lot of viruses are doing things on your computer, without you even knowing it and it is only when you install a good AV software, that you realize what viruses are running in the background and once you look at the payload description for that viruses, a lot of the weird things that are happening on your computers becomes clear.

We had a bot network running on 100s of computers with outdated AV software and when we manually updated it, the bots was removed  and the users reported back that the computers was much faster than before. <The viruses stopped the automatic updates>  Angry

I agree! We should emphasize the importance of having our antivirus software being updated regularly since "its effectiveness is only as good

as its last update" especially on zero day exploits which is very hard to detect! Nevertheless, we should also take into account the importance

of minimizing "human factors" which greatly contributes the emergence of these types of exploits.

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September 03, 2019, 08:08:10 AM
 #28

It also depend on the type of antivirus you are talking of, and also depends on the license, if you have been using all these free or cracked license, you cannot expect it to work to optimum as much as the paid one will, and secondly, it also depends on the company and the type of their antivirus that you seek for.

There are some antivirus that are specially designed for some specific things which covers some of the things that would have helped you as someone who uses a crypto wallet and also does cryptocurrency things on the laptop, I am not saying they were specially made, but they still covers it also. I have been using avast antivirus on my hp laptop for a very long time now and has not had issues of virus or malwares, although I use apple laptop for my crypto stuff, which you know apple is still quite safer.

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September 03, 2019, 08:20:04 AM
 #29

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

If he is comfortable using a computer with all his wallet on it, then it's up to him, but it's not recommended we have studies that anti-virus has a huge purpose and it's a must if you have your own computer, but if you have a depfeeze install, and you are not putting any software on your computer, then it's up to you.

It's about preferences on how you surf online and how you use your computer, be sure you are educated enough not to use an anti virus.



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September 03, 2019, 09:00:54 AM
 #30

Antivirus program is a category of program created to prevent, identify and eliminate malware infections on specific computing systems, networks which systems.

 Antivirus program, initially developed to identify and eliminate viruses from computer systems, could also defend against a multitude of threats, including some other kinds of malicious software program, like keyloggers, adware, spyware, rootkits, worms, Trojan horses, browser hijackers, ransomware and botnets.

How antivirus software functions Antivirus software generally costs like a background procedure, checking computers, mobile devices or servers to identify and limit the spread of malware. Lots of antivirus programs include real time risk detection and safeguards to guard against prospective vulnerabilities as they occur, and also system goes through that monitor product and system files searching for potential consequences.

Antivirus software typically performs these basic functions:

Specific files or scanning sites for noted malicious patterns indicating the existence of malicious software;
Allowing users to plan scans so that they run automatically;
Allowing users to begin new resulting scans at any time; and also Removing any malicious software program it detects. Some antivirus programs do it instantly in the record, while others notify owners of infection and get them in case they wish to thoroughly clean the files.
To scan systems totally, antivirus software should typically be provided privileged access to the whole program. This helps make antivirus software itself a frequent target for attackers, along with scientists have discovered remote code delivery along with other professional vulnerabilities in antivirus software solutions in the recent past.

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September 03, 2019, 09:44:02 AM
 #31

Are there any linux distro where antivirus might be necessary?

difficult to see why. if there was, best advice would be don't use that distro, it must be insecure in some important way


As long as you use common security sense (always update OS, double-check links, don't use superuser account for daily usage, etc.)

lol, all of which are the opposite of typical way of using Windows

  • never update OS (as it breaks things and takes hours)
  • click on anything ("but what if I win the top prize?" Roll Eyes)
  • always use Administrator for everything ("I always get 'adminstrator needed' boxes stopping me doing stuff, so if I always need admin, I just use it for everything" :FACEPALM:)

in fairness, Mac users are arguably worse, as at least some Windows users are more cautious, because they know how flaky it can be. Mac user are like Volvo drivers; they think that because they've got the safest thing around, that means they can do the dumbest things with zero consequences

Vires in numeris
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September 03, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
 #32

I don't think the AV is useless because as far as I've seen, the AV help the user to prevent the malware, virus, or even attacking from the other connection. The AV will alert the user to block, scan, or do something related to the current situations. It is up to the user if they want to install any of AV because I am sure that the user will want to protect their computer from something that can damage their computer. When we install Windows 10, the software has Windows Defender that will help the user to protect from the incoming attack, but we need to have the other AV to support and prevent the attacking.

AV is not useless. In fact for Windows is a must. But you have to keep it updated all the time otherwise is useless. Many people are not experts for cyber security, don't know what they can or can't to do protect themselves and AV could help them to protect computer or other device.
To ny opinion AV is necessary for mobile phones too, maybe even more than for computers but many people are not aware of that.

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September 03, 2019, 10:18:44 AM
 #33

So .. what's the difference? One has to know all the news the sysadmins are reading (and configure accordingly) and then he'll have the safest system.

well, there's Linux users here on this forum. everything you need to know to get started is above: don't use Mint or Ubuntu (or Windows) if you want privacy. Don't use Windows if you want security, online or offline.

Most have troubles understanding all those details. For example I needed a good number of hours to understand how Tails work and see how to upgrade and use Electrum there, although I had Bitcointalk and web search. Most don't do that and many are not as technical as you'd expect.

Also, since OP started the discussion about antiviruses, he's clearly using Windows and is not afraid (or doesn't know or doesn't care) of the information leak implied by that.
While I agree that some distros of Linux are better on privacy than the rest and I agree that this kind of information has to be spread, this doesn't answer to the initial question.

So for Windows (obviously), the normal "mortals" are better if they use antivirus (actually complete security solution nowadays) and also keep offline the coins intended for HODL.

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September 03, 2019, 10:24:38 AM
 #34

I am using Windows 10 with Windows Defender
Like additional protection i use VirusTotal and CCleaner to clean cookies and registry
Defender is enough for me.Avast is to heavy
But i am not loading everything to my laptop and i am very careful in a case of crypto related sites
I am also using proton vpn. I am never opening internet without proton

 
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September 03, 2019, 12:37:01 PM
 #35

If he is comfortable using a computer with all his wallet on it, then it's up to him, but it's not recommended we have studies that anti-virus has a huge purpose and it's a must if you have your own computer

I can understand why he is comfortable using his PC without anti virus software. I am not using one either.
But the difference is that we aren't using windows.

If you are using windows/MAC you need some anti virus. And even with, it doesn't protect you from anything else than the most dumb and already well known malware.



I am also using proton vpn. I am never opening internet without proton

So.. you are sharing all your details and all of your privacy with proton ? A company which makes money with your information.
Are you located in such a highly critical country that you'd rather trust a company (which makes money with information) than your ISP ??

Most people use VPN's for the wrong purpose, and you might be one of them. Take a look here.

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September 03, 2019, 12:52:32 PM
 #36

surfing internet without antivirus nowadays is madness
it is not useless , they form the first line defense versus the "homegrown" hackers and simple attacks
when you are targeted , antiviruses won't save you , but for an average user its a must
you can argue that many of them , especially the free ones , are taking money to blacklist sites , using other av databases , working for the government agencies and so on
nevertheless I have been using antiviruses since the first days of my internet surfing .. .career and never regret it
all of the crypto users should have one installed , IMHO , well the Windows users for sure

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September 03, 2019, 02:15:43 PM
 #37

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

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September 03, 2019, 02:29:35 PM
 #38

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

yes , you can try Free Kaspersky , it detects hidden miners well
alternatively , if your laptop is infected already , I suggest dr.Web Cure it!
https://free.drweb.ru/download+cureit+free/
and then polishing it off with Malware bytes:
https://www.malwarebytes.com/mwb-download/

if you have suspicious files on your laptop that you do not know the origin of , you can send them to be checked here:
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
also working for url you want to check without visiting first


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September 03, 2019, 02:56:29 PM
 #39

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

You can try to download and burn any of the rescue CDs made by the known antivirus companies. Just google for kaspersky rescue or avast rescue or whichever you prefer.
After burning the CD, boot from it and scan/disinfect. That should do quite a good job in most cases.

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September 05, 2019, 02:58:14 PM
 #40

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

You can try to download and burn any of the rescue CDs made by the known antivirus companies. Just google for kaspersky rescue or avast rescue or whichever you prefer.
After burning the CD, boot from it and scan/disinfect. That should do quite a good job in most cases.
Do you claim that scanning for miners is possible only if you boot using an external source?

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