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Author Topic: Bumping changes on some boards  (Read 6406 times)
tranthidung
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September 12, 2019, 04:57:58 PM
 #101

There are dump guys will sell their bumps, as some sold their merits with batches of 25, 50, 100 merits in early days after merit system began. If they are dump enough to sell their merits, their trust, they will be dump enough to sell their bump power.

Honestly, I don't have issues with such bump changes, and I think other good posters don't care. Why they should care about Bump changes while they only posts when they have good things to say?

I do believe that it has at least three main purposes:
- Reduce bumping spam.
- Help healthy topics get into places that belong to them.
- Catch abusers, and somehow eliminate or destroy their accounts.
We might see another type of Appeal: Bump Appeal. Tongue


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September 12, 2019, 05:03:15 PM
 #102

<…>If bumps would be public, it would at least be obvious which accounts are used, and unlike before these changes, bump services can no longer use worthless Newbie accounts. Once caught, they stand to lose their limited supply of accounts that earned Merit.
But there is no real rule to how the bumping power is used. I mean, ethically there is, but distinguishing a "professional paid bumper" from a "I like the topic" bumper type (as in "News: If you like a topic and you see an orange "bump" link, click it. More info.") would be based on quantitative/frequency type analysis to begin with + view of what’s being bumped.

Determining someone as a "professional paid bumper" would be circumstantial or suspected really, with no clear objective delimiter where the balance tips to one side or another. Even if someone is deemed as such, what then? It doesn’t sound like a DT tagging derivate, nor is it banable as per the rules stand.

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September 12, 2019, 05:16:05 PM
 #103

The alt ann board is looking nice! Nice coins on top..
I superbumped a few of em or so that I like and it worked.. I don't know exactly how much bump powers I posses but it's probably a good amount..

An account with good bump power is worth a lot, their is a lot to lose trying to sell bumps, so they will be expensive and rare I think..
It might not be obvious who did the bumping but you will probably be able to tell what threads are getting paid bumps when scammy crap gets on the first page..

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September 12, 2019, 05:19:15 PM
 #104

But there is no real rule to how the bumping power is used. I mean, ethically there is, but distinguishing a "professional paid bumper" from a "I like the topic" bumper type (as in "News: If you like a topic and you see an orange "bump" link, click it. More info.") would be based on quantitative/frequency type analysis to begin with + view of what’s being bumped.

Determining someone as a "professional paid bumper" would be circumstantial or suspected really, with no clear objective delimiter where the balance tips to one side or another. Even if someone is deemed as such, what then? It doesn’t sound like a DT tagging derivate, nor is it banable as per the rules stand.

I can't imagine this being a big business since it requires a steady flow of merits. I think it's fine to keep it hidden from the public. Nobody needs to know which shitcoins I'm bumping to the front page Smiley

I would prefer to have some visibility of my own bump power and super-bumps I've done in the last 30 days and mini-bumps in the last 7 days. No big deal though.

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September 12, 2019, 05:29:20 PM
 #105

<…>
Yes, that was kind of my point. I think it would be better for this info to be kept indoors, as the opposite will inevitably lead to dramas based on subjective terms, with not much room for objectivity as to the intent. The system can always be tweaked later on to allow less number of bumps (i.e. less bump power) if anything weird is detected internally, although, as I said, intent would need to be inferred, and there is no clear path to that.

The numbers I drew-up earlier on in the thread do leave a bit of room for some to make attempt to make some sort of business from this for a potential of a few hundred profiles. It’s more of a technical feasibility that a factual situation I would expect from the majority.

Seeing one’s own bumping power would be nice though I figure, allowing those that intend to use it a better means of (self)control.

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September 12, 2019, 06:20:03 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2019, 06:32:24 PM by johnwhitestar
 #106

Should this implementation work as intended the big projects will be highly favoured and the small coins will be cut out forever, IMHO.
To make things work in a fair manner just make each next post published in the same day having 1/2 bumping power of the previous one: to bump one thread one would need to publish 1 post for the first time, 2 posts for the next time, 4 posts for the third time in the same day and so on.
So to bump a thread just one time each hour one will need to publish 201326604 posts a day.
To bump a thread each 30 minutes during a day one would need to publish 1,407374884×10¹⁴ posts a day.

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September 12, 2019, 06:26:31 PM
 #107

I have a feeling people will be using the bump to their advantage. I feel like it will be the same thing as people selling merits... That or people will be trading both merits or trusts for bumps in a thread.. or as LoyceV said give me $10 and I will bump your thread. Only time will tell. I dont think selling bump power will be a huge issue though. Just because you are first on the list doesnt mean you will benefit from it. Shit projects will still be shit projects. Maybe if you see a shit thread being bumped post in the thread bump abuse or something like that... I wouldnt mind doing that but I worked hard to get where I am I would hate if someone just red trusted me over calling out Bump Abuse. Is there a way we can report bump abuse? Maybe we keep it to where noone knows how much bump power they truly have one day they go to sell some and then they relize they are out which then causes the buyer to leave a red trust  or neutral trust saying they tried to selll some bump power?

I do like the idea though. I just hope people use it like they are suppose to. Use it for good not evil!

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September 12, 2019, 06:31:41 PM
 #108

Should this implementation work as intended the big projects will be highly favoured and the small coins will be cut out forever, IMHO.

As if they were not "cut out" before - by shitbumping threads making a mockery of the frontpage.

You can still promote your project any way you want, including a sig campaign right here on the forum. At least now if you can get your project to the frontpage it's likely to stay there for more than 3 minutes.

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September 12, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
 #109

Should this implementation work as intended the big projects will be highly favoured and the small coins will be cut out forever, IMHO.

As if they were not "cut out" before - by shitbumping threads making a mockery of the frontpage.

You can still promote your project any way you want, including a sig campaign right here on the forum. At least now if you can get your project to the frontpage it's likely to stay there for more than 3 minutes.

For instance I'm working on promoting SLM as you can see.
I publish one post a day with something I consider interesting.
I was getting something like 100 people a day visiting the thread now I have 5.
So it doesn't make sense for me to write anything interesting on this forum, not in the appropriate section at least.
I can make valid contributions to the other threads to promote my signature, but it doesn't work that well.

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September 12, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
 #110

I can make valid contributions to the other threads to promote my signature, but it doesn't work that well.

If you make valuable contributions elsewhere in the forum and earn merits - your own bumps to your thread will have more weight.

If you just post in other threads trying to get views for your signature - it might backfire.

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September 12, 2019, 06:40:14 PM
 #111

Great solution.

Yeah good solution but it was difficult to understand.
I had to read the whole OP post 3 times and then i could understand how this new bump thing work.

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September 12, 2019, 06:51:19 PM
 #112

~snip~
I would be more happy if bump scores or any kind of proof that you bump a topic would remain private indefinitely since people will just take advantage of it just like whaf they did with the merit system. And you are right allowing a public data on this kind of system would just give members a chance to sell it as some kind of service just like what some other redditors are doing now on selling their upvotes.
This works both way: even without showing who bumped a topic, someone could still sell a bumping service. For example, someone could say: "Pay me $10 now and you'll see the topic bumped within 2 minutes". That would be enough evidence for the buyer to know the seller can deliver, while there's no evidence for spam-hunters to identify which accounts are being used.
Like what theymos said there is no guarantee that the topic will move up to the top spot when a user bumps their topic since it only affects the bump score, so if a bump seller just bumps a thread and it doesn't move up then there is no proof that a bump really happened.

If bumps would be public, it would at least be obvious which accounts are used, and unlike before these changes, bump services can no longer use worthless Newbie accounts. Once caught, they stand to lose their limited supply of accounts that earned Merit.

This would be the main benefit if the bump score became public in these sections, but how do we suppose to catch them? What can convince a DT member if a user just bumps a thread without any evidence that a sale even happened? Members right now doing illicit activities are also selling their merit sales outside the forum already and its already hard on catching them because of it. Now the ones who are selling merits will also have another mode of earning ones they try to monetize bumping as a service.

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September 12, 2019, 06:59:25 PM
 #113

Great changes! Hopefully it will cut back the 'paid bumpers' and signature shitposters.

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September 12, 2019, 07:07:08 PM
 #114

I can make valid contributions to the other threads to promote my signature, but it doesn't work that well.

If you make valuable contributions elsewhere in the forum and earn merits - your own bumps to your thread will have more weight.

If you just post in other threads trying to get views for your signature - it might backfire.

Unfortunately in my experience getting merits has nothing to do with good content.
And in the mean time this bumping system kills every initiative that is not promoted by big guys.

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September 12, 2019, 07:22:44 PM
 #115

Should this implementation work as intended the big projects will be highly favoured and the small coins will be cut out forever, IMHO.

As if they were not "cut out" before - by shitbumping threads making a mockery of the frontpage.

You can still promote your project any way you want, including a sig campaign right here on the forum. At least now if you can get your project to the frontpage it's likely to stay there for more than 3 minutes.

For instance I'm working on promoting SLM as you can see.
I publish one post a day with something I consider interesting.
I was getting something like 100 people a day visiting the thread now I have 5.
So it doesn't make sense for me to write anything interesting on this forum, not in the appropriate section at least.
I can make valid contributions to the other threads to promote my signature, but it doesn't work that well.


Sadly that does seem to be one of the downsides to the whole new bump system. If any initiative as you put is not pushed by prominent users then others might get left behind.

We need to give it time to see how it plays out.

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September 12, 2019, 07:40:00 PM
 #116

Unfortunately in my experience getting merits has nothing to do with good content.

That's a statement which can only come from someone who has received a total of one (in numbers: 1) merit.



And in the mean time this bumping system kills every initiative that is not promoted by big guys.

Let me rephrase this:
[..] this bumping system kills every scam promoted by newbies.

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September 12, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2019, 08:36:28 PM by johnwhitestar
 #117

Should this implementation work as intended the big projects will be highly favoured and the small coins will be cut out forever, IMHO.

As if they were not "cut out" before - by shitbumping threads making a mockery of the frontpage.

You can still promote your project any way you want, including a sig campaign right here on the forum. At least now if you can get your project to the frontpage it's likely to stay there for more than 3 minutes.

For instance I'm working on promoting SLM as you can see.
I publish one post a day with something I consider interesting.
I was getting something like 100 people a day visiting the thread now I have 5.
So it doesn't make sense for me to write anything interesting on this forum, not in the appropriate section at least.
I can make valid contributions to the other threads to promote my signature, but it doesn't work that well.


Sadly that does seem to be one of the downsides to the whole new bump system. If any initiative as you put is not pushed by prominent users then others might get left behind.

We need to give it time to see how it plays out.
By other hand just consider one of the most important functions of bitcointalk.org for the cryptoworld: The new currencies announcements.
Let assume me, with other people here, are about to create some interesting new currency.
The 99% of the founders try any kind of tricks to get an important piece of cake before anybody else, the typical solution is the premine. In the early days the premine was a no-no, now it's almost accepted as an inevitable evil, but still there are many trying to make their currency and their acting appear fair.
So they try any kind of tricks.
I gathered a very large collection of this cases, the most funny ones are publishing announcement on the New Year's Eve, publishing the announcement on some unknown site pretending there are many people interested in crypto there, not mentioning the launch date and so on.
With this new anti-bumping feature the "fairness" of new currency is almost automatic.
Let me explain it better.
So me and other people here are working on the new currency and of course (I'm ironic here) we want to get the biggest piece of cake possible before anyone else.
We don't need to hide anything, we can publish our announcement months before the launch because we won't bump it and everybody that will suddenly come across our announcement won't bump it either, because he'll want his part of a cake too, so why should he advertise the announcement to the others?
The above seems to me another use case of the forum that is not coming out well from the anti-bumping feature.

Unfortunately in my experience getting merits has nothing to do with good content.

That's a statement which can only come from someone who has received a total of one (in numbers: 1) merit.

It can appear like that, but it's not so. I think I know how to earn merits without manipulating others into and without buying them, but consider one who has some ideas that are too new and people will need many time to get used to. He will get basically no merits.

And in the mean time this bumping system kills every initiative that is not promoted by big guys.

Let me rephrase this:
[..] this bumping system kills every scam promoted by newbies.
That's the positive aspect of this bumping system, but it will also hurt the action of people that have been in crypto for many years and that have something to say which is not just promoting the first 10-20 coins.
How many bumps can receive Etherium? And how many bumps can receive some small fair coin whose developers are working hard?

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September 12, 2019, 08:02:45 PM
 #118

By other hand just consider one of the most important functions of bitcointalk.org for the cryptoworld: The new currencies announcements.

I don't think so. It's Bitcointalk, not Anntalk, and really - how many "new currencies" could we possibly need.

The handful of alts that home some sort of value or meaning will nicely fit on the first page of the ANN board and the rest of them won't be missed if they move down to page 6+ or disappear altogether.

Edit: and there you go, multiposting right here in this thread. Have some shame.

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September 12, 2019, 08:03:15 PM
 #119

By other hand just consider one of the most important functions of bitcointalk.org for the cryptoworld: The new currencies announcements.

Take a look at the url, bitcointalk.org. I wouldn't mind if Theymos decided to remove the entire Altcoin section, would definitely save a lot of mindless spam.

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johnwhitestar
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September 12, 2019, 08:07:12 PM
 #120

By other hand just consider one of the most important functions of bitcointalk.org for the cryptoworld: The new currencies announcements.

I don't think so. It's Bitcointalk, not Anntalk, and really - how many "new currencies" could we possibly need.

The handful of alts that home some sort of value or meaning will nicely fit on the first page of the ANN board and the rest of them won't be missed if they move down to page 6+ or disappear altogether.

Edit: and there you go, multiposting right here in this thread. Have some shame.

I'm very ashamed that I'm answering to each post that is being answered to me.
And yes we have something like 5000 cryptocurrencies out there that are not solving anything at the moment.
So we should expect one that will begin finally solving something.

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