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Author Topic: Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 Installation Help Request for Ubuntu 18 LTS  (Read 134 times)
matrix01
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September 11, 2019, 03:29:24 AM
Merited by LoyceV (4), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #1

Fellow Forum Members,
I have a new Ubuntu 18 LTS installation on my Intel x86 Dell Laptop and my goal is to install Bitcoin Core 0.18.1. Below in BOLD is the X86 64bit tarball file I downloaded from this site: https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/ . Unfortunately, this tarball file includes no Installation README file which would have been very helpful to somebody with weak Ubuntu skills:

bitcoin-0.18.1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz

What is confusing me is how Ubuntu has various methods available to install applications. Therefore, my question is what is the best method to use for installing Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 onto a new Ubuntu LTS system?

Google tells me the command below is used in the Ubuntu Terminal to install an application:

Code:
sudo apt-get install

However, I am not sure what follows after the "install" part. What is the rest of the text I need to include with the command? Do I need to add "bitcoin.qt" somewhere in the command? And what other commands follow the apt-get install command?

Also I am not clear what dependencies Bitcoin Core needs so it installs correctly?

I hope someone in this community can clarify for me correct Bitcoin Core installation with a brief post that outlines the steps on how to do it. I would be very grateful because my Google searches have all resulted in dead ends due to how none of the searches explain it as a Bitcoin Core version 0.18.1 installation onto an Ubuntu 18 LTS system. Thanks in advance.

Additionally, I learned the PPA installation method poses a security risk. So I want to avoid installing Bitcoin Core using the PPA installation method.  Lastly, I have already successfully verified the tarball file keys using the SHA256SUM.asc file and it checks out correctly.


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September 11, 2019, 05:42:07 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #2

Google tells me the command below is used in the Ubuntu Terminal to install an application:

Code:
sudo apt-get install
That is if you are installing it through a PPA (which you prefer not). You would need to add Bitcoin Core's PPA repo and use "sudo apt-get install bitcoin-qt" to install it.

To install through the tar.gz file, follow these instructions: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#linux-instructions

Basically:
Code:
tar xzf bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.1/bin/*

Then run bitcoin-qt to open the GUI.

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September 11, 2019, 09:44:33 AM
 #3

Basically those two commands posted by TryNinja is all you need to install core.


Additionally, I learned the PPA installation method poses a security risk. So I want to avoid installing Bitcoin Core using the PPA installation method.  Lastly, I have already successfully verified the tarball file keys using the SHA256SUM.asc file and it checks out correctly.

Did you check whether the hash of the tarball matches the hash in the file AND whether the hash-file is signed correctly ?
Both steps are necessary to ensure you are installing the original file.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

matrix01
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September 11, 2019, 04:31:43 PM
 #4

Bob123,
Thank you for your post. To answer your question below is the Terminal output I got when I went through the verification process with two changes I made included. The "john@mylaptop" differs and also the "90xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" differs because I don't know if such keys should be posted for the public to see. The 01EA 5486 DE18 A882 D4C2  6845 90C8 019E 36C2 E964 key seems to be posted all over the place so I left that key unchanged. 


Code:
To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>".
See "man sudo_root" for details.

john@mylaptop:~/Downloads$ sha256sum --ignore-missing --check SHA256SUMS.asc
bitcoin-0.18.1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz: OK
sha256sum: WARNING: 20 lines are improperly formatted
john@mylaptop:~/Downloads$ gpg --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 01EA5486DE18A882D4C2684590C8019E36C2E964
gpg: key 90xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: 3 duplicate signatures removed
gpg: key 90xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: 69 signatures not checked due to missing keys
gpg: key 90xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: public key "Wladimir J. van der Laan (Bitcoin Core binary release signing key) <laanwj@gmail.com>" imported
gpg: no ultimately trusted keys found
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:               imported: 1
john@mylaptop:~/Downloads$ gpg --verify SHA256SUMS.asc
gpg: Signature made Fri 09 Aug 2019 03:08:43 AM EDT
gpg:                using RSA key 90xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan (Bitcoin Core binary release signing key) <laanwj@gmail.com>" [unknown]
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg:          There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Primary key fingerprint: 01EA 5486 DE18 A882 D4C2  6845 90C8 019E 36C2 E964
john@mylaptop:~/Downloads$

Am I correct to assume the tarball file I downloaded has not failed the hash matching test based on the line I read below?

Code:
gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan

In short, do I have an authentic legitimate tarball file?  If yes, what line from the Terminal output is that decision based on?

Additionally, does my tarball file not failing this hash matching mean using the PPA installation method is now risk free?
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September 11, 2019, 04:39:33 PM
 #5

Google tells me the command below is used in the Ubuntu Terminal to install an application:

Code:
sudo apt-get install
That is if you are installing it through a PPA (which you prefer not). You would need to add Bitcoin Core's PPA repo and use "sudo apt-get install bitcoin-qt" to install it.

To install through the tar.gz file, follow these instructions: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#linux-instructions

Basically:
Code:
tar xzf bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.1/bin/*

Then run bitcoin-qt to open the GUI.

TryNinja,
Thank you for your post. I have reviewed the link. I have the tarball file located on my Ubuntu 18 desktop. When I select it and right mouse click there is an "Extract File" command which extracts the tarball file content. Am I correct to assume this eliminates the need to use the command shown below?

Code:
tar xzf bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz


Also in the instruction from your link I do you understand the purpose of the "-m 0755" text included in the command shown below?

Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*

Lastly, if I remember correctly there is a BIN folder and inside that BIN folder there are six files. Where is the DEB file located? I compare the DEB file to the EXE file used in Windows10 world to install an application. Shouldn't I be using a DEB file to install this application? This is one aspect that has me confused.  Lastly, can you share any knowledge you may have regarding dependency files Bitcoin Core needs to install correctly?  Or does Ubuntu 18 already have all dependent files Bitcoin Core needs?  Thanks for your help with this matter. 



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September 11, 2019, 05:22:14 PM
 #6

TryNinja,
Thank you for your post. I have reviewed the link. I have the tarball file located on my Ubuntu 18 desktop. When I select it and right mouse click there is an "Extract File" command which extracts the tarball file content. Am I correct to assume this eliminates the need to use the command shown below?

Code:
tar xzf bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
Yes. This command extracts the tar.gz file (notice the folder in the same directory).

Quote
Also in the instruction from your link I do you understand the purpose of the "-m 0755" text included in the command shown below?

Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*
I’m not super familiar with this command in specific, but AFAIK this sets the permission of the rules to be executed and read.

Quote
Lastly, if I remember correctly there is a BIN folder and inside that BIN folder there are six files. Where is the DEB file located? I compare the DEB file to the EXE file used in Windows10 world to install an application. Shouldn't I be using a DEB file to install this application? This is one aspect that has me confused.
This command already “installs” the software by moving the right files to an accessible folder. There is no .deb file. I even believe that running the bitcoin-qt file in the extracted folder should work.

Quote
Lastly, can you share any knowledge you may have regarding dependency files Bitcoin Core needs to install correctly? 
Or does Ubuntu 18 already have all dependent files Bitcoin Core needs?  Thanks for your help with this matter. 
I believe it already has what it needs. In any case, an error will show up, then we can debug it.

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September 11, 2019, 05:42:45 PM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #7

Am I correct to assume the tarball file I downloaded has not failed the hash matching test based on the line I read below?

Code:
gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan

The line saying that the hash matches was this one:


Code:
john@mylaptop:~/Downloads$ sha256sum --ignore-missing --check SHA256SUMS.asc
bitcoin-0.18.1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz: OK



In short, do I have an authentic legitimate tarball file?  If yes, what line from the Terminal output is that decision based on?

Yes.
The line from above says that:

Code:
gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan



Additionally, does my tarball file not failing this hash matching mean using the PPA installation method is now risk free?

No.
What you have done is:
Downloaded tarball -> verified it.
This means you are now free to safely install it.

If you however use the PPA method, you are adding a private repository to your list of repositories.
Then, if you'd do apt-get install .., you would be downloading the files again from this repository.

In your case, just untar the files and install them. You verified them.

Please note that the PPA method isn't unsafe per se.
But since you already downloaded and verified the tarball, stick with that would be my suggestion.

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September 11, 2019, 05:46:33 PM
 #8

Also in the instruction from your link I do you understand the purpose of the "-m 0755" text included in the command shown below?

Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*

-m is used to configure permission of the installed application. 0755 (in order) means :
0 : AFAIK it's indication whether it's directory or file, CMIIW
7 : Full permission (read, write, execute) for current user (root)
5 : Read and execute permission for group
5 : Read and execute permission for other user & group

Shouldn't I be using a DEB file to install this application? This is one aspect that has me confused.  Lastly, can you share any knowledge you may have regarding dependency files Bitcoin Core needs to install correctly?  Or does Ubuntu 18 already have all dependent files Bitcoin Core needs?  Thanks for your help with this matter. 

.deb is just one way to install application on linux

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September 12, 2019, 08:23:34 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #9

-m is used to configure permission of the installed application. 0755 (in order) means :
0 : AFAIK it's indication whether it's directory or file, CMIIW
~snip~

0755 is the octal notation of the permissions.
And the first 0 means that there is no sticky-bit set. If you'd want to set the sticky-bit, you would have to add 1 to the first number,  so 1755(in octal notation only; in decimal, you'd do chmod +t).

Whether a file is a directory, socket, etc.. is seen with ls -l at the first character of the permissions (d, s, ..), but they are not set using the first digit of the octal notation  Cheesy

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September 15, 2019, 04:21:56 AM
 #10



Fellow forum members,
Thank you to all for your postings. I am still trying to figure out how to correctly install Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 onto a new Ubuntu 18 LTS installation. In an effort to understand, I have watched the "How to install Bitcoin Core wallet in any Linux distribution" YouTube video in the link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-L5hsoUes&app=desktop

The instructor in the video does the following steps:

1. Extracts the tarball file onto the desktop.
2. From the BIN folder he drags the Bitcoin.qt file over to the desktop.
3. He creates a new Bitcoin folder on desktop.
4. He moves the Bitcoin.qt file inside to the Bitcoin folder.
5. He moves the Bitcoin folder to the Home folder.
6. He opens the Terminal and uses the "cd" command to move to where the Bitcoin.qt file is at.
7. He uses the "ls" command to confirm the "bitcoin.qt" file is there.
8. He makes it executable by using this command: "chmod +x bitcoin.qt"
9. Then he launches the wallet by using this command: "./bitcoin.qt"

Can anyone in this community please help me with the following:

a). I followed these steps to the letter on my new Ubuntu 18 LTS system and it does not work.
    Is this installation method the YouTube video covers compatible on Ubuntu 18? Is it suppose to work?
b). Why does the YouTube instructor use the command below:
Code:
chmod +x bitcoin.qt
and not the command below mentioned in: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#linux-instructions and shown below:
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*

c). I do not understand why the YouTube instructor does not move the other files in the BIN folder to the newly created Bitcoin folder mentioned in Step 3? Why does only the "bitcoin.qt" get moved to the HOME folder inside a folder named "bitcoin" and the other files in the BIN folder get left behind?  I find this confusing and I hope somebody can clarify it.

d). Can anyone please post the correct steps everyone needs to follow if the goal is to correctly install Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 onto a new Ubuntu 18 LTS installation. I just need it explained as steps because that will help me a lot. Therefore, I hope somebody can post numbered steps so everyone needing to perform this task can benefit. 

e). Lastly, from what I have learned so far there are three ways to install Bitcoin Core:
For example:
#1 You can download a source tarball and install it manually.
#2 You can download a .deb file and install it manually, using dpkg or the Software Centre.
#3 You can find a PPA or a third-party repository, and install it from there.
Which of the three methods listed above is the YouTube instructor using? 


Thank you very much in advance for any postings.
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September 15, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
 #11

a). I followed these steps to the letter on my new Ubuntu 18 LTS system and it does not work.
    Is this installation method the YouTube video covers compatible on Ubuntu 18? Is it suppose to work?
It should.

b). Why does the YouTube instructor use the command below:
Code:
chmod +x bitcoin.qt
and not the command below mentioned in: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#linux-instructions and shown below:
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*
The command that the youtuber used makes the .qt an executable, which is what is necessary to run it with "./bitcoin-qt" but only from the folder. The command that you mentioned installs it in the bin using 755 file-perms and should enable you to start it with "bitcoin-qt" from anywhere. Pay attention to the difference: notice the missing "./" and the later option letting you start it up from anywhere.

c). I do not understand why the YouTube instructor does not move the other files in the BIN folder to the newly created Bitcoin folder mentioned in Step 3? Why does only the "bitcoin.qt" get moved to the HOME folder inside a folder named "bitcoin" and the other files in the BIN folder get left behind?  I find this confusing and I hope somebody can clarify it.
Move only the things that you want to use. If you want to use the wallet with a GUI, then only move and run Bitcoin-qt.

d). Can anyone please post the correct steps everyone needs to follow if the goal is to correctly install Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 onto a new Ubuntu 18 LTS installation. I just need it explained as steps because that will help me a lot. Therefore, I hope somebody can post numbered steps so everyone needing to perform this task can benefit.  
No.

e). Lastly, from what I have learned so far there are three ways to install Bitcoin Core:
For example:
#1 You can download a source tarball and install it manually.
#2 You can download a .deb file and install it manually, using dpkg or the Software Centre.
#3 You can find a PPA or a third-party repository, and install it from there.
Which of the three methods listed above is the YouTube instructor using?  
#1.

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September 15, 2019, 09:07:52 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #12

e). Lastly, from what I have learned so far there are three ways to install Bitcoin Core:
For example:
#1 You can download a source tarball and install it manually.
#2 You can download a .deb file and install it manually, using dpkg or the Software Centre.
#3 You can find a PPA or a third-party repository, and install it from there.
Which of the three methods listed above is the YouTube instructor using?  

your temperament towards learning linux will decide which of the above you'll prefer.


  • if you want to know what''s going on, what to do, and why, choose #1. This puts you in a good position if #2 or #3 doesn't work for some reason, you may know enough to fix it yourself
  • If you want it working 5 minutes ago, and don't care how it happens choose #2. #3 is pretty close to #2. If something goes wrong, you'll wait for someone else to fix it

note that sometimes when you choose #2 or #3, the person who makes the .deb files or maintains the PPA is just an unpaid volunteer, which means they might have higher priorities in life, and that means that they literally might never fix it. which leads you back to #1 Cheesy (specifically, the person maintaining the Bitcoin PPA has been very reliable though)

Vires in numeris
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Today at 04:45:18 AM
Last edit: Today at 04:55:22 AM by matrix01
 #13

Fellow Forum Members,
I believe the jigsaw puzzle pieces are coming together. All I need is a few more questions answered. I would be very grateful if anyone in the community can clarify the following:

The two YouTubers below cover what I am guessing is a manual tarball installation method. However, I do not understand this variant method and would like to know if it is yet another way one can install Bitcoin Core:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PPsRowfJKA   (1:16 minute into the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQnAsn-Ib6Y   (7:21 minute into the video)

From what I gather both YouTuber's installation method involve using the Terminal commands shown below for the purpose of compiling tarball source files:
Code:
./configure
make
make install

Below is my rough outline of the 14 steps (as I understand it) for installing a Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 tarball file manually. As Step 2 mentions I am using a x86 tarball file because my laptop has an Intel X86 CPU. Since the two conform to X86 architecture does that mean I do not need to concern myself with any installation method involving the need to compile source tarball files? In other words, do the three Terminal commands shown above apply to my installation scenario?

Or does correctly installing Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 require I use the three Terminal commands shown above?

Or am I correct to think the Terminal command shown below in Step 8 does the same thing the three Terminal commands shown above do? In other words, is the Terminal command shown in Step 8 also doing compiling of the source Bitcoin Core 0.18.1 tarball file?


************************************************************************************************************************
NEWBIE ATTEMPT AT OUTLINING STEPS TO MANUALLY INSTALL BITCOIN CORE TARBALL FILE
(Feedback on the steps below will be greatly appreciated)

1. Go to either https://bitcoin.org/en/download or https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/ to download tarball file.

2. Download "bitcoin-0.18.1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz" package if using an Intel x86 Dell laptop with Ubuntu 18 LTS installed.

3. Verify the downloaded tarball file for release signatures. The tarball file is valid if this message: "gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan" appears in the Terminal as output.

4. Move the tarball file out of the Download folder and over to the desktop.
 
5. Right mouse click on the tarball file icon and select "Extract Here" command. The
Code:
tar xzf bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
command delivers the same result the "Extract Here" command delivers. However, using the menu command is easier for Ubuntu newbies.

6. New folder appears on Desktop named: "bitcoin-0.18.1-x86_64-linux-gnu". Open it and drill down to the BIN folder where inside this folder you will see the six files bulleted below:
  • bitcoin-cli
  • bitcoind
  • bitcoin-qt
  • bitcoin-tx
  • bitcoin-wallet
  • test_bitcoin

7. Open Terminal window inside the BIN folder.

8. Use sudo to run commands as ROOT, use the following command line: 
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*


9. In order to use Bitcoin Core GUI, you will need several libraries installed. All of them should be available in all major recently-released Linux distributions, but they may not be installed on your computer yet. To determine whether you’re missing any libraries, open a terminal (if you haven’t already) and run the command
Code:
/usr/local/bin/bitcoin-qt
to start Bitcoin Core GUI.

10. If all the required libraries are installed, Bitcoin Core will start. If a required library is missing, an error message similar to the following message will be displayed:
Code:
/usr/local/bin/bitcoin-qt: error while loading shared libraries: libQtGui.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

11. Search your distribution’s package database for the missing file missing and install package containing that file. Then re-run
Code:
/usr/local/bin/bitcoin-qt
to see if it’s missing another file. Repeat until Bitcoin Core GUI starts.

12. You will be prompted to choose a directory to store the Bitcoin block chain and your wallet. Unless you have a separate partition or drive you want to use, click Ok to use the default.

13. Bitcoin Core GUI will begin to download the block chain. This step will take at least several days, and it may take much more time on a slow Internet connection or with a slow computer. During the download, Bitcoin Core will use a significant part of your connection bandwidth. You can stop Bitcoin Core at any time by closing it; it will resume from the point where it stopped the next time you start it.

14. After download is complete, you may use Bitcoin Core as your wallet or you can just let it run to help support the Bitcoin network.

************************************************************************************************************************

Additionally, I would be very grateful if anybody in this community can review the 14 steps (as I understand them) shown above. Please let me know if I need to make any corrections to any of the steps. As for now, I have these questions:

Step 7 - I mention the Terminal window needs to be opened in the BIN folder. Is that correct? I ask because Step 8 mentions to run the command as ROOT. Does that mean having the Terminal window pointing to the BIN folder the wrong location? In other words, what does the ROOT path look like and doesn't the
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*
command correctly work from a BIN folder location in the Terminal window?  In short, please clarify what is meant by "ROOT".

Step 10 & 11 are about required libraries. Can anyone let me know if I should expect my Ubuntu 18.04 LTS installation to be missing any dependent files Bitcoin Core needs to install correctly? Should I expect any of the problems mentioned in Steps 10 and 11?

As for the PPA installation method I agree with what Colton says about it. I want to learn what is going on. However, I am glad I have learned the three Terminal commands shown below are the ones associated to the PPA installation method:
Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install bitcoin-qt

Thank you very much in advance for any postings. As I mentioned, in the beginning I feel the jigsaw puzzle pieces coming together. My hope is the postings that follow this posting of mine will help me in see the big picture.


Carlton Banks
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Today at 08:30:07 AM
Last edit: Today at 08:43:56 AM by Carlton Banks
 #14

3. Verify the downloaded tarball file for release signatures. The tarball file is valid if this message: "gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan" appears in the Terminal as output.

no

you should verify the file Wladimir signs. But that's a short list of SHA256 hashes of the files, not the archive files with the Bitcoin executables (i.e. the tarball).




so

3a.
Code:
gpg verify SHA256SUMS.asc

(gpg: Good signature from "Wladimir J. van der Laan is, as you say, a successful result)

a SHA256SUMS.asc file is on the Downloads page at https://bitcoincore.org for every release.


3b.
Code:
sha256sum bitcoin-0.18.0-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz

the output from 3b. is a string of letters and numbers, that is the hash of the tarball. In the SHA256SUMS.asc file, there will be a line corresponding to the tarball file you have, with the hash Wladimir got for the same tarball. If it's the same hash, then you have a strong guarantee that you have an identical tarball to Wladimir's (assuming you have his real key, and that no-one stole Wladimir's signing key, and also hacked both bitcoin.org and bitcoincore.org...)


Step 7 - I mention the Terminal window needs to be opened in the BIN folder. Is that correct? I ask because Step 8 mentions to run the command as ROOT. Does that mean having the Terminal window pointing to the BIN folder the wrong location? In other words, what does the ROOT path look like and doesn't the
Code:
sudo install -m 0755 -o root -g root -t /usr/local/bin bitcoin-0.18.0/bin/*
command correctly work from a BIN folder location in the Terminal window?  In short, please clarify what is meant by "ROOT".

"run as root" means you are using the user called "root" to do the command. using "sudo" before any command does this (it breaks down as superuser do, root is the superuser)


10. If all the required libraries are installed, Bitcoin Core will start. If a required library is missing, an error message similar to the following message will be displayed:
Step 10 & 11 are about required libraries. Can anyone let me know if I should expect my Ubuntu 18.04 LTS installation to be missing any dependent files Bitcoin Core needs to install correctly? Should I expect any of the problems mentioned in Steps 10 and 11?

no need to worry, all the external stuff Bitcoin needs to run is in the Bitcoin executable. There will never be a "missing library" error, it has everything in needs in a rucksack on it's back Wink


you make it seem more complicated than it is, you missed out step 2b: scratch your nose while downloading, or 13c: grab a coffee & watch the blockchain verifying till you get bored Cheesy

also, these steps work on any linux, there's nothing Ubuntu specific in your guide, Linux has worked as above for ~30 years. Maybe consider altering your thread title, it'd help more people that way

Vires in numeris
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