Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[Nemo1024]

You appear to be mixing up Ukraine and Belarus geographically. Belarus is landlocked. Ukraine, though the ports of Odessa and Mariupol, has access to the Black Sea and further to the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean.

It is not only me that is "mixing up". 20th century "mixed up" the people living in those lands something fierce.

First there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_Line .

Then there were some lines in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact .

Then there was plain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_Line .

And then they had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakerzonia .

And I'm most likely missing some other "lines".

It isn't a simple two-side conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

The real solution will have to involve cooperation of all involved peoples: Byelorussians, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians.

Edit: URL markup fixed.

It isn't a simple two-side conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

Well, there is no conflict between "Russia and Ukraine". Russia has no bone with Ukraine (millions of Ukrainians live and work in Russia) and historically these lands were one and the same country. The same applies to Belarus. The "conflict" is rather artificial and one-sided, imposed by the West onto Ukraine so as to damage both Russia and Ukraine.

So in

It is not only me that is "mixing up". 20th century "mixed up" the people living in those lands something fierce.

it's not just the 20th century. Mixing up went for centuries, when Ukraine Russia, Belorus were "just" Russia.

The real solution will have to involve cooperation of all involved peoples: Byelorussians, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians.

Belorus and Russia are already cooperating. Ukraine did too until EU put an ultimatum that Ukraine must choose either EU or Russia, and then unseated the legitimate President, when he saw more potential in continued cooperation with Russia

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[1713577098]

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[galdur]

Well yes, it used to be just one very big Russia and not that terribly long ago. Former parts like the Finns and Poles are talking big now. But they´ll be more polite later when Uncle Sam gives up on its hopeless European adventures.

Map of the Russian Empire in 1914

[Balthazar]

Grand Duchy of Finland and Kingdom of Poland were autonomous units with their own legislatures, governments and constitutions.

It's funny but Grand Duchy of Finland had greater sovereignty as part of Russian Empire than modern Republic of Finland within the EU.

[Nemo1024]

Grand Duchy of Finland and Kingdom of Poland were autonomous units with their own legislatures, governments and constitutions.

It's funny but Grand Duchy of Finland had greater sovereignty as part of Russian Empire than modern Republic of Finland within the EU.

Yes. Russian Empire was, in fact, a for-runner to modern federations.

Attesting to that is the fact that Finland, as a par of the Russian Empire, had its own mint and own coin line:
http://www.suomenrahapaja.fi/eng/about_money/the_history_of_finnish_money

In December 1859 the Finnish Senate petitioned the Tsar for permission for the country’s own unit of currency noting that the rouble was too large a unit of currency for a poor country such as Finland. The advantages of a smaller unit of currency were understood in St Petersburg and the Senate was charged with examining the matter in greater detail. At a full session of the Senate on March 10th 1860 a decision was made to propose as a unit of currency the markka, which would be a quarter of the value of the rouble and which would be divided into 100 penni. Based on this proposal Tsar Alexander II gave his approval to the new unit of currency on April 4th 1860.

Having it's own monetary policy is usually what defines a sovereign state. Finns forgot that now, falling for almost a century of anti-Russian propaganda.

[galdur]

Who knows, maybe they still harbor dreams of Karelia, especially after having their heads screwed with for years by Americans, Brits and (again) Germans

[Nemo1024]

I don't read Western MSM, and every time I take a sample, I see no reason to start... Saw yesterday in a Norwegian tabloid a hit-piece on Putin, where Russians were presented as a miserable, pitiful, oppressed lot under the dictate of "da evil Putin" who allegedly sends those poor Russians to a war they don't want. And the authour of the article was a 20-something "journalist". It was disgusting...
Well, the only truth in that article was that Russians don't want war, and that's why Russia/Putin stayed out of the Ukrainian conflict however hard the West tried to draw Russia into it, but that's something no one bothers to mention. If the reality does not match the desired state, report a different "reality".


News from Donbass.

Ukro-Nazis exchanged/released some POWs from Donetsk yesterday. The youngest of them is a boy of 16. He was 15 when he was taken prisoner. Despicable.


CyberBerkut published a document from the notebook of MinJustice of Ukraine, which details instructions on which TV/Radio channels to ban and which grounds can be given to deny people entry into Ukraine. Having on your person a photo camera/memory cards, notebook or other gadgets are grounds enough to deny you entry. ythis efefctively blocks entry to all - no "just" Russian - journalists:

http://www.cyber-berkut.ru/main/20150709_00.php

[galdur]

State Dept, Pentagon Split on Claims of Russia as ‘Existential Threat’

Kerry Rejects Marine Commandant's Claims About Russia
by Jason Ditz, July 10, 2015

The State Department today issued a statement publicly disputing comments by Marine Commandant and Joint Chiefs of Staff nominee General Joe Dunford, who yesterday declared Russia an “existential threat” to the United States.

“The secretary doesn’t agree with the assessment that Russia is an existential threat to the United States, nor China, quite frankly,” spokesman Mark Toner insisted during the daily State Department press briefing. He went on to say that the US and Russia have “disagreements” but that isn’t the same thing.

Gen. Dunford made the claims in testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, labeling Russia an existential threat because of “recent actions” in Ukraine. He went on to list the top threats as Russia, China, North Korea, and ISIS “in that order.”

While officials often rail on about “Russian aggression” because they are backing opposite sides in the Ukrainian Civil War, it is noteworthy that the State Department still felt it worth disputing the presumptive new military chief’s assessment of them, and may suggest a significant split on US policy toward the Russians.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/07/10/state-dept-pentagon-split-on-claims-of-russia-as-existential-threat/

[galdur]

Putin sounds upbeat.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday that there were more chances for Ukraine crisis to be successfully resolved rather than for it to fail.

He also said efforts to resolve the crisis have been hindered by Kiev's reluctance to directly negotiate with the rebels in east Ukraine. (Reuters)

[bryant.coleman]

Who knows, maybe they still harbor dreams of Karelia, especially after having their heads screwed with for years by Americans, Brits and (again) Germans

If they try to regain Karelia, then they will even lose the parts of South-West Karelia which they currently control. Finland is having a population of around 5 million, and the strength of their army is just around 8,000 (1% of that of Russia). And additionally, they are not a part of the NATO, so NATO won't support them if they provoke Russia in to a war.

[galdur]

Who knows, maybe they still harbor dreams of Karelia, especially after having their heads screwed with for years by Americans, Brits and (again) Germans

If they try to regain Karelia, then they will even lose the parts of South-West Karelia which they currently control. Finland is having a population of around 5 million, and the strength of their army is just around 8,000 (1% of that of Russia). And additionally, they are not a part of the NATO, so NATO won't support them if they provoke Russia in to a war.

Yeah, yeah but perhaps they hope to get some benefits and handouts from hanging out with the expected winning side - like their blunder in 1941. They clearly listen to certifiable maniacs in the west so nothing can be ruled out.

The plan is to crash Russia and then divide it into smaller and manageable units without any power and suitable for exploitation by the corporate owners of said maniacs. It´s understandable that morons here and there fall for such pipe dreams. How many lies can you allow yourself to believe before you belong to the lie...

[galdur]

Ukraine | Why Bandera Have the Largest Geo-Political Voice in EU

By George Eliason

OpEdNews Op Eds 8/1/2014 at 12:00:55

Part I of the Series- Bandera -- Into The House of Lector

Today with the support of Europe, Australia, Canada, the US directly, NGOs, the IMF and UN indirectly; Kiev enjoys an unparalleled geopolitical position. Whatever lie it tells is the new truth.

Commentators have been scrambling to make sense of this, and of how Nazism could have popped up so boldly with the support of the free Western World. We're told it only plays a small part in what is going on in Ukraine, but history is often stranger than fiction and in this case fiction is the story you have been told. Ukraine is a paradox: There has never been a democratic oriented government in Kiev and democratic protests were the ruse to get Western support.

From the late 1980's to Ukraine's independence in 1991, the Bandera world leaders looked at Ukraine sensing independence would soon happen. Their greatest concern in the run up to freedom was that there were no Nazis in Ukraine, or more precisely only a few, located around the Bandera capital of Lviv, with no political power. From 1991, with the help of the US and EU they have been preparing to change that fact radically. The paradox is that modern Ukraine's Nazi governments have always been active on the world stage. The only form of government the modern Ukrainian state has ever known has been the worlds longest continuing and most extreme ultra nationalist government the planet has ever seen. ..... tons more....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Ukraine--Why-Bandera-Have-by-George-Eliason-Communism_Extreme_Hitler_Ideology-140801-8.html




United without Hitler
(image by V Kontakte)   DMCA

[Nemo1024]

The plan is to crash Russia and then divide it into smaller and manageable units without any power and suitable for exploitation by the corporate owners of said maniacs. It´s understandable that morons here and there fall for such pipe dreams. How many lies can you allow yourself to believe before you belong to the lie...

And that plan was in place and hasn't really changed for centuries.

- Before the 1812 campaign against Russia, Napoleon was presented with plans on how to split up Russia, designed by Polish General Sokolnitskij.

- Before the 1941 campaign, Hitler was presented with the draft for plan Barbarossa. (Interestingly, initially Poland aimed to be an ally of Germany and a beneficiary of the division of Russia, though it didn't work out for them again) There we can read:

http://warmech.ru/1941war/40a.html

Chief of Staff OKW operational management after the relevant changes returned the presented presented to him in December 18, 1940 by the Department of "Defense of the country," the draft of a document "Guidance on specific issues of directive number 21 (version of the plan "Barbarossa")," making a postscript that this project can be reported to Fuhrer after processing in accordance with the following of his position:

    The next war will be not only an armed struggle, but at the same time a struggle between two worldviews. To win this war in an environment where the enemy has a vast territory, it is not enough to break the armed forces, the territory should be divided into several states, led by their own governments, with which we could conclude separate peace treaties.

    The creation of such governments requires a great political skill and well-designed development of common principles.

    Every revolution of large scale brings to life phenomena that can not simply be set aside. Socialist ideas in today's Russia are already impossible to eradicate. These ideas can serve as a basis for the political creation of new states and governments. Jewish-Bolshevik intelligentsia, representing the oppressors of the people, should be removed from the scene. Former bourgeois-aristocratic intelligentsia, even if it still exists, especially among immigrants, should also not be allowed to power. It is not accepted by the Russian people and, moreover, it is hostile towards the German nation. This is particularly noticeable in the former Baltic States. In addition, in no case should we allow the replacement of the Bolshevik state by a nationalistic Russia, which eventually (as evidenced by the history) will once again confront Germany.

    Our task lies in the fact that as soon as possible and with the least expenditure of the military effort, we must create those dependent upon us socialist state.

    This task is so difficult that it cannot be solved by army alone.

03/30/1941 of ... 11.00. Big meeting with the Fuehrer. An almost 2.5 hour-long speech...

    The struggle between the two ideologies ... The great danger of communism for the future. We should proceed from the principle of soldier partnership. Communists have never been and will never be our friends. It's about the struggle until annihilation. If we do not look at it like that, even if we beat the enemy, after 30 years communist danger will arise again. We conduct this war, not in order to preserve his opponent.

   The future political map of Russia: North Russia belongs to Finland, protectorates in the Baltic States to Ukraine and Belarus.

    The fight against Russia: the destruction of Bolshevik commissars and the Communist intelligentsia. The new states must be socialist, but without its own intelligentsia. It should not be allowed to form a new intelligentsia. It will be enough here with only a primitive socialist intelligentsia. We should fight against the poison of demoralization. This is not a question of Military Justice. Commanders of units must know the purpose of this war. They need to lead in the fight... to keep troops permanently in their hands. He shall give his orders, taking into account the mood of the troops.

    The war is sharply different from the war in the West. In the East cruelty it is good for the future. Commanders have to make sacrifices and to overcome their hesitation ...

We know how the above ended.

Interestingly, 1941 and "Barbarossa" was "only" a military continuation of an assault on Russia that was conducted during the colour revolution and the coup d'etat of 1917, when large parts of Russia were successfully split off. Russia cannot be conquered by the armed forces, but it can be severely wounded from within.

The other such strike happened in the Wild 90's by the hands of the US puppets Yeltsin and Gorby.

Now look at the proposition of division of Russia in the rhetoric of another Polish descendant, now serving US (instead of Napoleonic France) - Zbigniew Brzezinski. You'll see a lot of similarities... And Poland again is used as a convenient launching pad... they never learn.

And something like this was planned with Khodorkovskij, only it didn't work out.

Now plans a'brewing for another attempt at colour revolution in Russia and removal of Putin. And, as US Secretary of Defence said so precisely, the sanctions against Russia will be there until Russian Federation is broken up into pieces:

Negotiations to remove Putin. Evgeny Fedorov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCyUZjGV3Zg

PS: An interesting twist regarding Crimea. Napoleon planned to turn it into "another Riviera". Hitler envisaged it as the prime resort for the heads of the "Third Reich". USA had designs for it as a large NATO military base in the Black Sea...

[galdur]

Yes Nemo. Of course German industry has been slobbering in their dreams of a "New Czechia" in the Donbass for years. The German vassal state of the U.S. actively supported former pres. Yuschenko even after he made Nazi crap like Bandera and Shukhevych "Heroes of the Ukraine". This did not impede Berlin's support at all. Whores are always flexible to any situation and position they have to be in.

[Nemo1024]

Speaking about Nazi crap... Right Sector started fighting in the Western Ukraine - near the Trans-Carpathia town of Mukachevo, where they used mortars against police forces, all the while SBU asking Right Sector to put down their weapons nicely, please, be nice guys...
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126281216.html

Right Sector now threatens to set up several block posts around Kiev, and in the Western Ukraine, and  send fighters into Kiev itself, using their "reserves which are currently in training" without distupting those that currently murder people in Donbass:
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126274549.html

Ukrainian Internal Ministry explained that Right Sector opened lethal fire first:
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126287850.html

Meanwhile, some light relief. Ukrainian Consule to Turkey arraived to a sports occasion, wearing a T-shirt depicting Putin with a writing "Politeness is our everything":
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126275797.html

[galdur]

Speaking about Nazi crap... Right Sector started fighting in the Western Ukraine - near the Trans-Carpathia town of Mukachevo, where they used mortars against police forces:
http://news.rambler.ru/world/30748636/?track=topic_topnews2

Right Sector now threatens to set up several block posts around Kiev, and in the Western Ukraine, and  send fighters into Kiev itself, using their "reserves which are currently in training" without distupting those that currently murder people in Donbass:
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126274549.html

Meanwhile, some light relief. Ukrainian Consule to Turkey arraived to a sports occasion, wearing a T-shirt depicting Putin with a writing "Politeness is our everything":
http://ria.ru/world/20150712/1126275797.html

Wasn´t Insane McCain in the Ukraine conferring with his nazi pals what a week, ten days ago? Maybe there´s a connection, wouldn´t be too awfully surprised. That fruitcake is always crazy for death and destruction as is well known.

[chopstick]

2,500 Azov troops are supposedly training in Colorado, USA..

http://novorossia.today/obama-moves-2-500-feared-ukrainian-nazi-fighters-to-colorado-for-reasons-unknown/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Balthazar]

Unfortunately, she's a bad girl and works for Kolomoyski. It seems that he ordered her to say the truth in order to make Porky's position weaker.

But you're right, she's interesting person.

LOL, is that so? Then she must be a prostitute too, only higher price...

But really, Kiev is tops in prostitution. The best to get one is near the gates of that college near that park in Shevchenko prospekt... no need to go to the clubs or escort agencies... the students are really kind and cheap...


BTW, after the Maidan, the girls must be way cheaper now. The economy is imploding. More than a couple of years ago, I got mine free but my 60-ear old uncle got his for $15 & they looked like a teenage version of the MP....

COuld that be the real reason for the Maidan, to drive down the price more because the Galicians don't have $15?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hkp-jgimaQ

I was right about her, she's just another populist prostitute.

[Nemo1024]

Several materials from Ukraine, Odessa and Donbass in yesterday's edition of the "News of the Week" with Kisiljov (a journalist, who is under Western sanctions for journalism)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik

Heads of DNR address UN to start an international tribunal to try the Kiev coup authorities for their crimes against humanity. As you all know, Kiev passed a law, saying that human rights don't apply to Donbass and people there have no Constitutional rights. The heaps of evidence of Kiev's crimes are mounting - there is a thick binder for EACH DAY of the past year, containing testimonials and documents:

Watch below. There are some strong imagery there. Some parallels to a similar genocide in Rwanda and the trials of the tops from that country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=3415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=3607

An interview with a human rights activist explaining the suffering the "POWs" underwent in Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=3852


And aside. Facebook bans people and censors posts, containing the word "hohol" (a non-derisive term for Ukrainians, also meaning crest and a certain hairstyle.) Many people have surname Hohlov, there is a square, called Hohlovskaja, Pushkin mentions "hohol" in his poems. Interestingly, Facebook allows "moskal" and "kacap" - derisive terms used by Ukrainians for Russians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=4436


From Odessa. Saakashvili is on the official payroll of Washington, getting a salary of $198000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=2521



His primary goals are threefold: 1) Sell three Odessa ports to Americans on the cheap, ensuring a NATO base there (something USA failed to do in Sevastopol, so they targeted another Russian city); 2) Reignite the conflict in Pridniestrovie; 3) Repress any mutiny in Odessa.

Jeffry Piett, US ambassador to Ukraine, announced about it last Monday, from a lawn in Odessa, saying that Odeassa will become a "laboratory for the USA"

Another Georgian, now a citizen of Ukraine, Guladze is working on creation of National Police in Ukraine. Guladze is accused in Georgia of violations of human rights and of use of violence against a peaceful demonstration - something that USA usually screech about, when it suits them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=3131

All Ukrainian soldiers must learn and speak English! Why? Because American generals drill them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=3278

At least some Odessites are protesting with the typical Odessan humour. Just check out the following frame:




And a report about USAid/Soros disruptive NGOs undermining Russia, and how "Maidans" are organised:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=4661

A todo list (images from a French 2007 documentary "Revolution.com or USA-  conquering of the East"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhNDdMulik&feature=player_detailpage#t=5182

[YarkoL]

It's funny but Grand Duchy of Finland had greater sovereignty as part of Russian Empire than modern Republic of Finland within the EU.

True for the most part.
Except towards the end, when Russia started to push more
panslavic policy towards Finland than before.

Who knows, maybe they still harbor dreams of Karelia, especially after having their heads screwed with for years by Americans, Brits and (again) Germans

The question of Karelia was never about re-conquest. It was home to about 45 000
Finns, all who had to leave everything behind them. So naturally many of them still
kept alive the hope of sometime returning. Up to 1990's there was some kind of possibility
of that via peaceful negotiation, but I think that dream is now largely gone.

The area is now mostly inhabited by Russians and in very bad shape, so it would be
just too difficult to rebuild and re-settle.

[Nemo1024]

It's funny but Grand Duchy of Finland had greater sovereignty as part of Russian Empire than modern Republic of Finland within the EU.

True for the most part.
Except towards the end, when Russia started to push more
panslavic policy towards Finland than before.

I wonder if you are repeating one of those myths that were propagated in Finland after Lenin gave it independence and prior to it being used as a pawn by Germany. Because the period that you are talking about is when Finland had its own Senate and its own currency. Once I mentioned Lenin - his act was an act of "thank you" to Finns for giving him shelter from prosecution of the Russian authorities for his state-destructive activities. Much like Khodorkivskij/Gusinskij is finding shelter in Germany and GB today. If Finland wasn't a de-facto independent state, it would not have been able to keep Lenin from the Russian Empire's reach.