Public online auction for confiscated BTC tomorrow 25 Sep 2019

[buwaytress]

On behalf of the UK government: https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?salecode=192398
GBP 500 deposit, passport/ID verification, proof of address, and you can bid on lots starting at 0.25 BTC.

No reserves, no limits.

I've always wondered how much people buy crypto at auctions for, and why police didn't simply just sell them. After 15% commission, the bitcoin must be going for max 80% of average price. Anyone know any info on this?

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

Anyone interested?

[1715499520]

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[1715499520]

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[1715499520]

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[GreatArkansas]

No reserves, no limits.

Is that 'no limits' on how much you gonna buy bitcoin? If yes, how come that it can be no limits?
I'm still confused how the online auction for confiscated BITCOIN will go, how they can create their own price?
They will based on the current price of Bitcoin or much lower on it? Because if you will just buying on the action and if you compare that on the price of Bitcoin now, if your total costs buying on auction is much higher compare on just buying on some exchanges, then it's useless.

[muslol67]

GBP 500 deposit, passport/ID verification, proof of address, and you can bid on lots starting at 0.25 BTC.

no exchange does not want so much at the same time. And while the price for the purchase is visible to everyone ...

Moreover, data such as KYC is requested by a country. Interesting.
I think only UK citizens can participate?

[Jet Cash]

Transaction Fees: The winning bidder of each Lot will be responsible for all respective blockchain fees, including but not necessarily limited to transaction fees. These are fees that are set by the blockchain and are out of Wilsons Auctions control.

This looks like a bit of an open ended charge. Obviously the "blockchain" doesn't set the fees, but the wallet provider that is holding the funds does. There is probably no incentive to minimise this.

I'm not sure that crypto is subject to VAT, but the auctioneer's fee will be, and this may include a buyer's premium. A quick look at the terms didn't provide much clarity. My feeling is that the smaller lots will be over priced, and the larger lots will provide the bargains. If the sales are run through existing exchanges, rather than P2P transactions, then it may affect the price of Bitcoin, so the best deals may result from normal dealing through your favourite exchange. Wilson's have conducted crypto auctions in the past, so it will be interesting to read the various analysis papers that will be produced after the auctions.

[HeRetiK]

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

There's also a Lot at 0.1028 BSV maybe just go for that one!

Any sources on where these coins came from? Have there been any major Darknet market busts in the UK lately? Or are we looking at the Queen's secret stash and she's become tired of hodling?

[gentlemand]

no exchange does not want so much at the same time. And while the price for the purchase is visible to everyone ...

Moreover, data such as KYC is requested by a country. Interesting.
I think only UK citizens can participate?

Apart from the deposit thing that's exactly how exchanges should operate, but don't.

I can buy millions of pounds in stocks and all I need is photographic ID and proof of address. Try putting 20 grand through Bitstamp and wait for them to demand the right to crawl up your anus and live inside your mind for six months.

I'm still confused how the online auction for confiscated BITCOIN will go, how they can create their own price?
They will based on the current price of Bitcoin or much lower on it? Because if you will just buying on the action and if you compare that on the price of Bitcoin now, if your total costs buying on auction is much higher compare on just buying on some exchanges, then it's useless.

It's a government commissioned auction. They won't pay any attention to the Bitcoin market. It's down to whoever turns up to bid to set the price. They might get lucky, they might all ruin each other. It's not anyone's problem but theirs.

[Juggy777]

On behalf of the UK government: https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?salecode=192398
GBP 500 deposit, passport/ID verification, proof of address, and you can bid on lots starting at 0.25 BTC.

No reserves, no limits.

I've always wondered how much people buy crypto at auctions for, and why police didn't simply just sell them. After 15% commission, the bitcoin must be going for max 80% of average price. Anyone know any info on this?

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

Anyone interested?

I would never participate in any government auctions relating to bitcoins because it’ll lead them to me, and they can ask me to pay taxes on my existing bitcoins or even charge me retrospectively for my transactions. Also their terms are unfair to the buyers as they’re selling it above market rates, only a fool will want to buy from them.

[diazepam666]

Are you part of this auction team from UK?

Why is that only available for UK citizens? If there is any options to all people participating on it, you may share it to auctions board. Here is the auction board link, it will be helpful for right people looking for this info.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=73.0

[gentlemand]

Are you part of this auction team from UK?

Why is that only available for UK citizens? If there is any options to all people participating on it, you may share it to auctions board. Here is the auction board link, it will be helpful for right people looking for this info.

According to this press release from last year - https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/news/wilsons-auctions-hitting-a-global-audience/

"Whilst we are firmly physical auctioneers, our auctions are all live online these days, and we frequently have specialist auction events, so our customers can come from anywhere in the world."

But there's no country option on their register page so I'm not sure what's what.  

I really doubt it's worth bothering because of the 15% buyers' premium and it's likely there'll be VAT on that 15%. I'll bet many of the marks who get excited and bid will forget about that little detail.

[buwaytress]

Far as I can tell, it is open to public but I didn't look in detail if this is restricted to UK. The press release stated "online global audience". I imagine it is judging from the simple form.

Also from the PR, it is from:
"Eastern Region Special Operations Unit (ERSOU) having been seized from a criminal who illegally supplied online personal data and hacking services in exchange for thousands of pounds worth of cryptocurrency."

And yeah proof and address and ID is enough, seems fair to me and as gentlemand points out should be the extent of what an exchange asks for.

Crazy bid for 0.1 bsv and 0.03 eth too. Should have lumped the lots but I guess they wanna try get lucky.

Also, didn't post in auctions as this is just news of an auction and link to it.

[gentlemand]

Crazy bid for 0.1 bsv

About nine quid?

I occasionally observe liquidation auctions and the odd government one and the prices are often totally ludicrous. People seem to get into their mind that because it's an auction it's a bargain no matter what and all reason goes out the window.

A big camera chain sold thousands of items of stock through a place like this when they went down. Almost every item was 10-50% more than brand new and that's without the premium.

I'm interested to see how this one pans out. I get the feeling it might not attract the hard nosed crowd that the US Marshals auctions did. It might be all overexcited grannies. Maybe Craigy can claim the market has declared BSV is worth £10,000 when that 0.1 is mistakenly bought.

I like the PR cheese though.

[Mbitr]

I think this auction is available to a worldwide audience. After doing a bit of research, they did an auction in January of this year, details -

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/news/wilsons-auctions-launches-uk-s-first-seized-cryptocurrency-auction/

I can’t believe they know much about crypto currencies , but it will be interesting to see what happens and if anyone on the forum gets involved, please let us know how your experience was.

[Lucius]

Also from the PR, it is from:
"Eastern Region Special Operations Unit (ERSOU) having been seized from a criminal who illegally supplied online personal data and hacking services in exchange for thousands of pounds worth of cryptocurrency."

So it's dirty crypto, what attitude the exchange offices will have if we send them such coins? Maybe the UK government should issue a certificate with them as well "marked as criminal coins - now cleaned by UK government"

No doubt there will be interested buyers, especially if it is an international auction. This type of sales may also be a good promotion for Bitcoin, it shows that there is some value in crypto and that even governments know they can make money from trading Bitcoins. It would be interesting to know how long these coins were in possession of ERSOU.

[DeathAngel]

I like the PR cheese though.

Look at the guy on the right, jerk looks like something out of Lord Of The Rings.

[Lizzylove1]

I hope the government is not trying to obtain bitcoin traders and see how to monitor them for strict tax payment? If they are really serious, they should look for a trusted exchange to conduct this, they may want to restrict any nationality of their choice if they dime it fit. 

[gentlemand]

I hope the government is not trying to obtain bitcoin traders and see how to monitor them for strict tax payment? If they are really serious, they should look for a trusted exchange to conduct this, they may want to restrict any nationality of their choice if they dime it fit. 

No way will the government go anywhere near any piece of crap exchange. All they want to do is sell something. They'll use the same routes they've always used. If people want it they'll show up and pay just like everything else. It certainly has no shortage of publicity now.

[Tonteus]

Not heard about this, thank you for information

[Kakmakr]

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

There's also a Lot at 0.1028 BSV maybe just go for that one!

Any sources on where these coins came from? Have there been any major Darknet market busts in the UK lately? Or are we looking at the Queen's secret stash and she's become tired of hodling?

I watched a new documentary on UK law enforcement and the most expensive items they auctioned on that auction was bitcoins that were recovered. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-49342397   I cannot remember what it was called, but they found it in a drug dealers house with a lot of other expensive items. <watches & shoes and jackets etc.>

We cannot deny that bitcoins are slowly but surely attracting a lot of bad elements, because of it's anonymity features. I hope a hoarder will buy these coins and not someone that is just going to buy it and immediately sell it for a profit.  

See there are some Alt coins too... <ZCash>

[gentlemand]

Look at the guy on the right, jerk looks like something out of Lord Of The Rings.

He might well be reading this. You just needlessly hurt his feelings.

We cannot deny that bitcoins are slowly but surely attracting a lot of bad elements, because of it's anonymity features. I hope a hoarder will buy these coins and not someone that is just going to buy it and immediately sell it for a profit.  

My guess is that there won't be any short term profit in this. It's going to be bid up beyond the market cost because some won't be thinking about the buyer's premium and others won't bother to check the current market price.

That 0.1 BSV is already only a quid or two off market value with the premium included.

The median on the front page is about £4300 for each bitcoin another 23 hours or so to go.

[virasisog]

I think this auction is available to a worldwide audience. After doing a bit of research, they did an auction in January of this year, details -

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/news/wilsons-auctions-launches-uk-s-first-seized-cryptocurrency-auction/

I can’t believe they know much about crypto currencies , but it will be interesting to see what happens and if anyone on the forum gets involved, please let us know how your experience was.

This is the first time i heard something like this, and as i read the article this is a first also in UK
But having this auction happen by the authorities obviously is catching the attention of their locals and international as well

[gentlemand]

That 0.1 BSV is now £99. 1 whole BSV bought in a real market is £68.

Do you think they'll let me make a late entry on there with what I've got left of it?

For the alts at least there may well be some highly comical prices.

[kryptqnick]

The auction sounds very weird to me. I understand that since Bitcoin is not legal tender in Great Britain, it's probably not as strange to the officials, but I see it as an attempt of selling money at a different price. Imagine if they confiscated 500 EUR and then made an auction in USD to see who is willing to pay how much for it. It's ridiculous, Bitcoin has its market price and it should not be worth way more or way less. And all those formal requirements don't make the auction particularly attractive. Not to mention that it kind of does not feel right to receive the very same money that criminals use. I mean, of course, we can receive and send this money without knowing it but buying it knowing for sure about the dirty transaction history is not something I'd do.

[gentlemand]

The auction sounds very weird to me. I understand that since Bitcoin is not legal tender in Great Britain, it's probably not as strange to the officials, but I see it as an attempt of selling money at a different price. Imagine if they confiscated 500 EUR and then made an auction in USD to see who is willing to pay how much for it. It's ridiculous, Bitcoin has its market price and it should not be worth way more or way less.

Eh?

It's just the same as every other public auction. They farm it out to the auction house and receive whatever money they get. That's how it is for anything they recover from criminals.

If buyers are stupid enough to pay more than the market rate then no one's stopping them and no one's forcing them. It's entirely their fault for bidding. The government won't care.

[coolcoinz]

Look at the guy on the right, jerk looks like something out of Lord Of The Rings.

He might well be reading this. You just needlessly hurt his feelings.

He might be right in a way. Many actors (including some of the hobbits) in LOTR were British.

I hate the word "confiscated". It has this "legally stolen" vibe.

Usually, coins bought at auctions fetch higher prices than the current exchange rate. People who buy in bulk usually don't care. I mean yesterday we were at 9k now were at 8 so what's the real price? Somewhere in between? If I had the money to buy 10 BTC right now I probably wouldn't care if I were to buy them at 8.5 or 9k USD. At some point in time, be it a month or a year, it's going to be worth more than 10k. Poor people are just unable to freeze money for so long, but for the rich it's just another chess piece on the board. 

[audaciousbeing]

On behalf of the UK government: https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?salecode=192398
GBP 500 deposit, passport/ID verification, proof of address, and you can bid on lots starting at 0.25 BTC.

No reserves, no limits.

I've always wondered how much people buy crypto at auctions for, and why police didn't simply just sell them. After 15% commission, the bitcoin must be going for max 80% of average price. Anyone know any info on this?

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

Anyone interested?

Wow, this is another one angle I am reading things would want to understand the rationale because what this means is that they have reduced bitcoin to a commodity and its funny. Just like an event that I have about coins as money in the past which was minted from gold. People then prefer to sell the gold for more money rather than using the coin as money. In this case, I don't see how someone would want to bid higher knowing the current price of btc that can be bought in open market without the hassles of ID and deposit and if bid is low, how someone cannot make immediate profit by selling in the open market. The impact in the market is my concern that the dumping would not further crash the already bleeding price of crypto. But lets look on the bright side as this is publicity in the long run although losses in the short term.

[buwaytress]

About 15 mins to go and the prices for 1 BTC are generally in the GBP 5600 range, which, after the 15% premium comes up to GBP 6440. Cheapest deal on Localbitcoins now is GBP 7100.

It's almost surely the same person probably since 0.5 BTC 2 BTC and 0.25 BTC lots are almost exactly at the same value.

Still, almost 10% discount on current prices. They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

So now I know.

[gentlemand]

About 15 mins to go and the prices for 1 BTC are generally in the GBP 5600 range, which, after the 15% premium comes up to GBP 6440. Cheapest deal on Localbitcoins now is GBP 7100.

It's almost surely the same person probably since 0.5 BTC 2 BTC and 0.25 BTC lots are almost exactly at the same value.

Still, almost 10% discount on current prices. They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

The ones that have finished made £6400 ish for most with premium, with the odd blip. Not bad. I wonder how rapidly you get them. I cannae wait to see what the BSV achieves. Someone's going to outraged.

[Herbert2020]

They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

it has already crashed. i would say they are ultra lucky that it happened and they are buying it at this rate instead of 15-20% higher. so in reality the discount they are getting is about 30% to 45% right now. there is no room left for crash and even if it happens, the price is bound towards $10k+ soon enough. i don't think someone participating in this kind of auction is going to look for quick profit. a short wait and they nearly double their money.

[gentlemand]

Did anyone see what the alts went for? Results aren't available if you weren't there to see the sale end. The Zcash was over market value too but nowhere near the BSV.

[gentlemand]

Report here - https://micky.com.au/uk-police-make-out-like-bandits-in-bitcoin-auction/

7500 bids from across the world and it's saying that on average it achieved above market rates. I don't really recall that being the case but I did miss a few of them as they ended.

[figmentofmyass]

Report here - https://micky.com.au/uk-police-make-out-like-bandits-in-bitcoin-auction/

7500 bids from across the world and it's saying that on average it achieved above market rates.

that doesn't surprise me, even with the 15% commission. i think there are investors willing to pay a significant premium for "government sanctioned" coins. that's certainly the impression i got when draper outbid everyone on every single lot in the first USMS auction---he must have paid a hefty premium.

similar to virgin coins, the fungibility of "government sanctioned" coins is beyond doubt.

[boris2470]

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

[HeRetiK]

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

[gentlemand]

This is different from something like silk road coins with multiple known and tainted addresses from tons of users.

If I remember rightly these were phished coins and few exchanges or law enforcement types will know or care about the addresses.

It's small time stuff.

[yoseph]

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

[HeRetiK]

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

Coins are "dirty" when blockchain-analysis show that they've come from a questionable source (eg. a known darknet marketplace wallet or a scammer's address). That means that if you try to sell these coins at an exchange that follows KYC / AML procedures you run at risk to have your account frozen or to have local law enforcement knocking at your door. You're likely to have to explain the source of funds which might not end well for you (assuming you're connected to the associated crimes).

These coins become "clean" in that you now have a good explanation why these coins are linked to crime -- they were confiscated and you bought them at an auction as officially sanctioned by the government.

Of course that's an oversimplification of a complicated issue (ie. fungibility), but that's the gist of it.

[figmentofmyass]

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

governments are the best damn money launderers on earth---steal a criminal's coins, polish them up, and sell them at a premium. rinse/repeat. the police have turned asset forfeiture into an industry at this point. why not bring it to crypto?

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

if you get coins in a government auction, those coins have been issued a clean bill of health---literally endorsed by the government. compare that with coins freshly withdrawn from a darknet market, which could be flagged by any exchange you send them to.

which coins seem dirty and which ones seem clean?