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Author Topic: Bitcoin Suisse - Physical Bitcoin/Crypto Certificates - Series II  (Read 1173 times)
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September 27, 2019, 11:48:46 PM
 #21

I have forgotten, BTC, BCH, BSV, XCHF, ETH and XTZ certificates are on sale. gn.

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September 27, 2019, 11:59:11 PM
 #22

Good to know. But i have yet to hear a response from anyone at all.....i even pointed them back here to reply to questions!

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September 28, 2019, 12:26:45 AM
 #23

Those paper bills looks beautiful, but I have few questions:

- What is minimal denomination we can choose for BTC and ETH?

- How do you send certificates to other countries and is it safe?

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September 28, 2019, 01:17:59 AM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #24

This overall thread is pretty fucking sad. Where is the OP?  Roll Eyes Tongue
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September 30, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
 #25

Hi everyone,

Misunderstanding from me.
Indeed, Bitcoin certificates with a generic nomination means, instead of 1 BTC (for example) => "BTC" in every corner."
Only the specific amount is missing on the corners.

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October 01, 2019, 12:28:29 PM
Last edit: October 03, 2019, 03:55:51 PM by BitcoinSuisseAG
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #26

Thank you for the interest & feedback to everyone. We'd like to address the various questions, one by one:

>>Are there any country restrictions for ordering the loaded BTC notes?

Bitcoin Suisse is unfortunately prevented from onboarding as clients, US citizens, green card holders, or residents of the United States of America, due to FATCA regulation.
We also had for the same reason, technical issues with sending text messages as part of the onboarding, to US clients.


Those US customers who tried to onboard but were prevented, we will contact by email today.

>>Can  you please publish on how many notes of each denomination will be issued?

We have updated the certificate page (https://www.bitcoinsuisse.com/crypto-certificates/) with production numbers for Series II (just under 18'000 produced in all denominations).
We have also added info about the soon to be released Series III.

>>Also as a USA based customer your text ID confirmation does not work.
>>All US-based people I talked to could not get through this step.
>>So I cannot complete registration and purchase your wonderful notes!


Please read above - hope the situation is addressed.

>>Another question...
>>Do the Notes have to be funded?
>>Can they be left empty regardless of face value?


All notes/certificates with an on-printed denomination HAS to be funded. We do not allow unfunded, denominated notes to circulate, as they may (and will) be used to defraud 3rd parties to believe that they are paid in funded, physical crypto.
We do however have a number of 'generic' certificates available (in BTC, ETH, BCH, BSV & XCHF) with no on-printed denomination. These can be purchased un-funded.

>>I tried to register, but why are you asking for so many documents such as Passport just to place an order?
>>Perhaps I didn't understand the concept of Bitcoinsuisse...


We do not make a business of the certificates themselves. Instead, we hope to see people onboard as Bitcoin Suisse clients to purchase the certificates, and perhaps, stay on as clients.

While the price of each certificate is currently rather high (20 USD), this comes from the limited number produced and all the effort which went into it, and all in all, we're not earning anything on Series II even if sold out. We hope however to be able to drop the price somewhat with Series III, as many of the processes, materials and other certificate parts, developed for Series II, can be re-used.

>>Hi there I cannot get through phone verification or the process. Can I purchase from you on forums and send BTC

>>Same, I would like to get one but it seems there are just too many hurdles for this collectible, I hope that gets fixed soon.

We are streamlining the process. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

>>Wanted to order a couple but this is just...
>>First all of these useless verification steps. Then finally, I can log in I can't see any of the notes and their prices before I make a deposit. (hard since I don't know what they cost...)
>>Ok, so I deposit some BTC -> wrong again, apparently, you need fiat in your account to click the "Order crypto certificate" button.
>>So I trade my BTC into CHF (where I need to pay a commission fee for) -> nice I can finally see the certificate page, but then again not clear what to do.
>>Are these notes funded or not? For example, if I pick the 0.1 BTC one this is not calculated with the total. On the bottom there is a submit button -> no idea when I press this if my order is completed...(not gonna hit >>that button before i know if they are funded or not)
>>I want to order more than 1 notes but that seems not an option, you need than to order every note separately and pay shipment for every note lol


Thank you for your feedback.
We made the erroneous assumption that this product would mainly be interesting for our clients, and we assumed we would be helpful, if costs were deducted directly from our clients' various Bitcoin Suisse accounts.
We now see that this is not the case, and will likely switch to an invoice based system for certificate ordering, making the process for those who wish to order, much more streamlined.
We also made a mistake in allowing only 1 type of certificates to be selectable in each order (but multiple numbers). This is, of course, unfortunate in case one wants many different certificates in the same order, because of shipping costs. We will, however, short term, merge orders from the same client of multiple different certificates, to include shipping only once. Long term (in 2 or 3 weeks) we will shift the ordering process to allow multiple different certificates in the same order, and shift towards an invoice based system. This should address all the topics you mention and simplify the process. We regret the inconvenience.

>>We definitely need some clarification

We hope this post has provided clarification.

>>Roger Ver in da house !

Yes - and we gave him a framed version of the BCH certificates, which he appreciated very much :-)

>>Can you also explain why your online site has no Cart or Basket feature as this is causing a silly amount of extra cost in postage for orders.
>>1999 called, they want their eCommerce software back ...


We realize this and we apologize. We simply made some wrong assumptions, expecting little interest in 'multiple mixed orders'. You will have the basket there in maximum 2-3 weeks, and until then, we will manually merge orders. Sorry for the inconvenience.

>> I have forgotten, BTC, BCH, BSV, XCHF, ETH and XTZ certificates are on sale. gn.

Yes and we added some information about the upcoming Series III on the certificate page, where both new assets and denominations will be added.

>> But I have yet to hear a response from anyone at all..... I even pointed them back here to reply to questions!

We regret the late reply.

>> Those paper bills looks beautiful, but I have few questions:
>>- What is minimal denomination we can choose for BTC and ETH?
>>- How do you send certificates to other countries and is it safe?


The minimal denomination is ‘Generic’ – aka. “no printed value on the certificate”. Only the currency symbol and you can load on whatever you wish.
The smallest denominated BTC certificate at the moment is 100 mBit (0.1 BTC) and the smallest denominated ETH certificate is 1 ETH. Series III will include a 10 mBit certificate (0.01 BTC).

**

We hope all questions were addressed & we thank you all for the feedback and for the interest in this product. You are of course also very welcome to write (info@bitcoinsuisse.com) or call Bitcoin Suisse (+41 41 660 00 00) should you have other questions, or simply write the questions here in this thread.
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October 01, 2019, 12:47:03 PM
 #27

Thankyou for clearing the air and answering these questions!  Wink

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October 01, 2019, 02:20:52 PM
 #28

Thanx for the info!

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October 01, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
 #29

...snipped


Thank you for the comprehensive reply Smiley

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October 01, 2019, 07:23:22 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #30

Please delete all the KYC documents for all the USA customers getting denied, including my own. Thank you.  
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October 01, 2019, 09:23:29 PM
Last edit: October 03, 2019, 03:22:02 PM by BitcoinSuisseAG
 #31

>>Please delete all the KYC documents for all the USA customers getting denied, including my own. Thank you.  

Of course - that will be done for all relevant cases!
Bitcoin Suisse is a Swiss financial intermediary, more than 6 years in the market - and undergoing licensing for becoming a Swiss bank (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4BRg3C5ZcU). We are very careful with private client data and privacy in general, and as we cannot (not by our choice) currently accept US clients, you can trust we will delete all private information relevant to US client applicants.
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October 05, 2019, 04:26:26 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #32

Received that from Switzerland. Beau-ti-full certificates in hands.

I did not expect that. Did not think about it when ordering.
Crypto has a smell!
Since 2013, I've finally discovered today the odor, the aroma of crypto money which is... WOW

BitcoinSuisse.com does produce pieces of art certificates, it's also a pretty neat exchange, trading & prime brokerage, collateralized lending,
staking, stablecoins, storage... Foundation of Bitcoin Suisse AG started in 2013, the founder, chairman, Co-CEO Niklas Nikolajsen discovered Bitcoin in 2010.

Smiley You guyz made my day, Vive la Suisse!


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October 08, 2019, 11:42:33 AM
Merited by AT101ET (1)
 #33

Dear Everyone,

While we previously worked under the assumption that US customers could order certificates via mail, this unfortunately turns out not to be the case.
Bitcoin Suisse is currently not allowed to handle orders from US citizens, green card holders or residents of the United States of America, due to FATCA regulation. At present, this also regrettable means means that we cannot sell crypto-certificates to said group. We a forced to refer to US customers to seek our the certificates from 3rd parties and re-sellers. Should this change, we will let the community know.

US customers whom have tried to order have been notified directly and have been offered a private gift of 2x generic certificates from our founder and chairman, as compensation for trouble and time spent.
For everyone else, the much vaunted shopping basket will be up and running from the 12th and onward.

We regret the inconvenience for all US customers!

/Bitcoin Suisse - Certificate Team
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October 28, 2019, 12:34:34 PM
 #34

Received two free non denom BTC notes as promised. Thankyou!


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krogothmanhattan
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October 28, 2019, 12:41:40 PM
Last edit: October 28, 2019, 01:37:23 PM by krogothmanhattan
 #35

I have managed to buy the unloaded version of your notes...as well as a loaded version.

  I know you have higher denominations. Its a shame the only way to buy them will be loaded. But do you really think anyone will load a paper wallet not made by themselves with 10BTC? That's quite a lot of money to trust someone else who made the private keys.

  I do hope you do sell as your notes are quite the collectable item. I also have some from your first series....but here is a suggestion to ponder...

  Have you considered perhaps selling them unloaded if they are never sodl in the future? And if so to protect against any scam perhaps stamp unloaded in a neat way on the side or across the face diagonally?

   Regardless...Thanks for the great work you have done on these. Cheers

  

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October 28, 2019, 10:48:03 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (5), seleme (1), tweetious (1)
 #36

>>Received two free non denom BTC notes as promised. Thankyou!

Most welcome - we are sorry for the trouble for US customers which we are currently unable to serve, and we felt it only proper with the small token gift - with the time and effort you spent when this was unclear.
For everyone else - yes - the shopping basket is now online, so it is possible to do a mixed order of different certificates.

>> I know you have higher denominations. Its a shame the only way to buy them will be loaded. But do you really think anyone will load a paper wallet not made by themselves with 10BTC? That's quite a lot of money to trust someone else who made the private keys.

We cannot stress it enough: Never ever buy a product with 3rd party generated keys from 'someone' on the internet, and use it for storing large amounts of cryptos! Not even when they, like we do, have a 3rd party audited & notarized production process (https://files.bitcoinsuisse.com/assets/pdf/Public_Deed_Confirmation.pdf). This leaves 2 questions

1) Why do we enforce loading of denominated certificates?

2) Why do we offer lg. denominated certificates at all, given the 3rd party generated key problem, audited or not? When we even warn against it?

As to (1) - we have been making '3rd party passable pater wallets' aka. 'physical bitcoin' since 2014. Originally we allowed them to be purchased 'unloaded'. Unfortunately it did not take long before we had people approaching us with a "I bought this 1 BTC certificate from someone for 560 USD - now please load it".... From then on - we decided to enforce loading 'when buying' - except for the generic, non-denominated certificates. Casascius himself also learned this the hard way.

As to (2) - In Europe we are the oldest and largest crypto financial service provider, broker and custodian in the market, active since 2013. Basically we are the Coinbase or Gemini of Europe. Certificates / paper wallets are not a part of our core business, it is a (historic) service we provide with a view to a) marketing b) serving a niche need of our clients.
For about 10'000 clients, we store almost 2Bn of crypto assets including about 2% of every Bitcoin every mined. For those of our clients where we have worked together for years - and who trust us with millions of dollars of assets, it is not a big leap of faith to order a 10 BTC note, and use it for perhaps a significant present to their children, business partners or as a rare collectible.

Please also note what we have 10 milliBit and 100 milliETH certificates on the way - a more manageable amount.

For the rest of you, who do not know us - yes - it makes no sense what-so-ever. Nor should you ever trust any person or company with 10 BTC or even 1 BTC - unless you fully know who you are dealing with!

Still you have the option of using the generic certificates, with or without loading small amounts on them, as a cool way to make a present or an offline transaction - and perhaps afterwards show the receiver, if not already in the know, how to sweep the wallet. And you at least have the benefit and peace of mind of knowing, that no-one to our knowledge the past 5 years, had a bad experience with our paper wallets.

Take the certificates for what they are nothing more - and we certainly do not hide the risk involved with 3rd party generated keys (see opening post). Yet, just as many people for a specific reason or with a specific need turn over their assets to centralized exchanges or service providers, as can it make sense to do it on paper wallets in a few, limited use-cases, even with the risks involved.

>> Have you considered perhaps selling them unloaded if they are never sold in the future?

Historically - we always sell out. But as stated, this is not a business for us - rather a service and a labor of love.

>>And if so to protect against any scam perhaps stamp unloaded in a neat way on the side or across the face diagonally?

That would of course be possible. If clearly and unmistakably marked in a permanent way that the certificate is unloaded - we could provide you such a note, unloaded. But we wouldn't produce then in scale as a product, as you are the first ever such request we had.
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October 28, 2019, 10:58:58 PM
 #37

Great responses! Reaching out to you now via pm and email. Thanks! Cheesy

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October 28, 2019, 11:50:56 PM
 #38

Great responses so far!

Hence, I am tempting to ask:


Could you please elaborate on the serial numbers numeration of each note? You have provided information about the denominations and issue numbers, however, I was wondering how those notes are being serialized.

Shouldn't each note denomination have its own serial numeration, that matches the total amount of the issue number? I am asking, because the majority of the generic notes that I received, their serial number is greater than the total number of the generic notes being produced.

Let's take for example the ETH notes (1 ETH: 1470, 10 ETH: 1580, Generic: 1846).  How do you serialize those? like 1ETH: (serial numbers 1-1470), 10ETH(serial numbers 1471-3050), Generic (serial numbers 3051-4896)?
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November 05, 2019, 09:21:49 PM
 #39

The serial numbers are done per currency instead of per denomination for simplicity reasons during production.

The certificates are printed in sheets and each sheet contains 3 certificates of mixed denominations (e.g top: 0.1 BTC, middle: 1 BTC, bottom: Generic). This is done to keep the amount of fixtures and stencils that need to be custom made to a minimum.
With the above mentioned aggregation of multiple denominations per sheet we only need one stencil for BTC instead of 3 if we kept the denominations all separately. The serial numbers are printed from top to bottom (e.g top one is 1, middle 2, bottom 3).
Let‘s assume that 0.1 BTC is at the top of a sheet, then the serial numbers for 0.1 BTC are always 1+(x*3) e.g 1,4,7,10...

I hope this answers your question.
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November 07, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Last edit: November 11, 2019, 05:35:43 PM by Jcga
 #40

Smiley Hi Everyone,

Received these beauties mid-october from bitcoinsuisse.com
The sexy scent of Crypto.


Some serial numbers are just ultra low, like wow low low
Noticed the 4 x 1 loaded BCH.
I did an error when ordering, missed one generic BCH to have 3 generic certificates completed series.




Source: bitcoinsuisse.com/crypto-certificates



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