Are Privacy Coins under Scrutiny?

[coin-investor]

If exchanges choose to use CipherTrace's implementation that would mean that the identities would be in the hands of only a few people ie.

Granted if people have to do KYC through an exchange, they've already willingly gave their information. This just adds a level of protection.

I wonder what will happen over time to DEXs

Okex is the first to take action on these Privacy coins by delisting them, now we have this bad news, I wonder will much more bad news coming for Privacy coins, some of them have been in existance for several years, but I am very confident that majority of these exchanges will prefer to keep these Privacy coins, they represent the essence of anonymity and about Dex they will continue to exist, as many traders prefer to trade on Dex.

[DaMut]

It's definitely a hit against privacy coins and the government has obvious reasons against that. One of the issues here is that people who have no idea of what crypto is, are always seeing crypto being used in illegal stuff which is also blocking us from having mass adoption. Though I think that there are still exchanges that are trading and you can still get it in alternative IEO's, even better since you always buy low and sell high.

All these rules by the government will affect the investors and their investments badly, it would only be a matter of how people show as how they use it.

I think the problem here is not about common people seeing it as illegal but mainly because it was used to money laundering.
Not only privacy coin, but all cryptocurrencies are also under scrutiny to prevent any money laundering and crime.
The reason why they pressured the privacy coin more than others because it is extremely hard to detect compared to a non-privacy coin and mostly used to do that.
personally speaking, it does not affect the investors because privacy coin is used by them who are afraid of being detected or paranoid, for normal investors. They do not really care about that much.

[qwizzie]

I think you are late though, it has been under scrutiny for many years now and I think it has contributed to the massive price drop that we have in those privacy coins.

All altcoins have seen massive price drops these past few years, not just the privacy coins.
Which means other (market) factors are at play here.

I think a lot of these market factors have to do with Bitcoin (speculation about Bitcoin ETF's, Bitcoin upcoming halving etc),
causing an outflow of investments from Altcoins to Bitcoin. Also the Altcoins never really escaped the bearmarket (neither has Bitcoin,
at the looks of it).

 

[qwizzie]

If exchanges choose to use CipherTrace's implementation that would mean that the identities would be in the hands of only a few people ie.

Granted if people have to do KYC through an exchange, they've already willingly gave their information. This just adds a level of protection.

I wonder what will happen over time to DEXs

Okex is the first to take action on these Privacy coins by delisting them

OKEx is not delisting anything, OKEx Korea is delisting. Two different exchanges.
 

[Bttzed03]

Does this mean the end of all privacy for crypto?

I don't think so but it's interesting to see some of the response of these coins marketed as privacy coins.

My takeaways from the posted article:

In August, Dash Core Group CEO Ryan Taylor published a blog post in which he appeared to distance the project from its privacy features. The post stated that “the required processes and compliance tools for Dash are identical to those required to support Bitcoin.”  By this reasoning, since PrivateSend uses the same mixing techniques which are available for Bitcoin, then Dash is no more a privacy coin than BTC is.

Zcash appears to be taking a similar approach. Last week, Electric Coin Company, which operates Zcash, published a blog post of its own.

Jack Gavigan, who heads up the company’s Regulatory Affairs division, explains that Zcash is also no different than other cryptocurrencies. In fact, somewhat ironically, it’s more compliant with the FATF transparency requirements than other coins which don’t make claims to privacy.

The backpedalling may have contributed also to the drop in prices. Those who got sold of the privacy features are selling now that the supposedly privacy coins were no longer private all of a sudden.

[qwizzie]

Does this mean the end of all privacy for crypto?

I don't think so but it's interesting to see some of the response of these coins marketed as privacy coins.

My takeaways from the posted article:

In August, Dash Core Group CEO Ryan Taylor published a blog post in which he appeared to distance the project from its privacy features. The post stated that “the required processes and compliance tools for Dash are identical to those required to support Bitcoin.”  By this reasoning, since PrivateSend uses the same mixing techniques which are available for Bitcoin, then Dash is no more a privacy coin than BTC is.

Zcash appears to be taking a similar approach. Last week, Electric Coin Company, which operates Zcash, published a blog post of its own.

Jack Gavigan, who heads up the company’s Regulatory Affairs division, explains that Zcash is also no different than other cryptocurrencies. In fact, somewhat ironically, it’s more compliant with the FATF transparency requirements than other coins which don’t make claims to privacy.

The backpedalling may have contributed also to the drop in prices. Those who got sold of the privacy features are selling now that the supposedly privacy coins were no longer private all of a sudden.

Again, all altcoins dropped in price. Not just privacy coins.

Besides, Dash has ATH with mining hashrate and almost new ATH with number of active masternodes (longterm investors).

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/dash-hashrate.html
http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

And Dash still offers optional privacy (although its not much used now or in the past). Dash is just trying to get out from under
the privacy-centric label, as its far more focussed on other features (providing instant, secure and low cost transactions through
InstantSend for example).

[Bttzed03]

~snip

~snip

Again, all altcoins dropped in price. Not just privacy coins.
Besides, Dash has ATH with mining hashrate and almost new ATH with number of active masternodes (longterm investors).
And Dash still offers optional privacy (although its not much used), Dash is just trying to get out under the privacy-centric label
as its far more focussed on other features (providing instant, secure and low cost transactions through InstantSend for example)

I am aware that all altcoins dropped in price that's why I said "may have contributed".

In your honest opinion, will Dash be able to get out of the privacy-centric label regardless of how many uses its coinjoin?

[qwizzie]

~snip

~snip

Again, all altcoins dropped in price. Not just privacy coins.
Besides, Dash has ATH with mining hashrate and almost new ATH with number of active masternodes (longterm investors).
And Dash still offers optional privacy (although its not much used), Dash is just trying to get out under the privacy-centric label
as its far more focussed on other features (providing instant, secure and low cost transactions through InstantSend for example)

I am aware that all altcoins dropped in price that's why I said "may have contributed".

In your honest opinion, will Dash be able to get out of the privacy-centric label regardless of how many uses its coinjoin?

Yes, i think Dash will able to free itself from the privacy-centric label as it receives more and more support for its
InstantSend technology by exchanges on either the deposits side or the withdrawel side. Creating trading opportunities.

Another aspect of Dash that is receiving regnonition is its development of ChainLocks that not only provides protection
against 51% attacks, but also make sure transactions that are locked by ChainLocks are fully secure, can not be doublespend
and are provided with a certainty that they will be included in a block. This is the direct reason why Coinbase Pro only
requires 2 confirmations on its Dash deposits, instead of the more exspected 6 confirmations.

This all plus having InstantSend active by default on 90% of its transactions without additional costs, strengthen Dash primary
use case as digital cash.

Dash is also changing into a decentralized platform, where additional services can be run on. Services like a decentralized API
that allows direct connecting of services / Dapps to its network. Or services like data-type driven smart contracts, where metadata
of Dapps can be stored on masternodes through DashDrive.

As all these new use cases come available to Dash, it will loose its label as privacy-centric coin, and will be viewed more
like a decentralized fast payment provider network. Optional privacy will still be supported (it has been made far more
efficient and faster over the years), but in the end that will only form a small portion of its many services i believe.      

[Bttzed03]

^ Good to know more and more features are coming for Dash. Why can't they just drop the coinjoin feature and just allow thrid party wallets to do the mixing for them (just like with bitcoin)? I think that's where Dash will ultimately free itself from being labeled as privacy-centric coin. I don't know how close you are with the team but have they considered that?

[qwizzie]

^ Good to know more and more features are coming for Dash. Why can't they just drop the coinjoin feature and just allow thrid party wallets to do the mixing for them (just like with bitcoin)? I think that's where Dash will ultimately free itself from being labeled as privacy-centric coin. I don't know how close you are with the team but have they considered that?

I'm not that close to the team, just been around a long time with Dash. What i do know is that they want to
extend the privacy option from their core wallets to mobile phone apps over time as well. They believe privacy
on transactions is important to keep offering optionally and i dont really see them decouple this feature from their
core wallets any time soon.

Also remember that Dash still get daily integrations on so many exchanges (Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, Bibox, Vaultoro,
Binance US, Cointrade and many others), that there is no real urgency to switch the privacy feature over to third party wallets.

Here is an interesting article : https://medium.com/coinmonks/which-crypto-becomes-the-new-payment-system-69f95b2d2ec3

[Bttzed03]

^ Yes, I noticed the numerous integrations as well and thought that it's probably another way for Dash to counter future delisting. With regards to the urgency of decoupling the privacy feature, I guess it will all boil down to whether these FATF member countries will enforce the travel rule. Time will tell.

Edit: Thanks for the article.

[Ucy]

Privacy coins can be used without exchanges. so I don’t see how this will make all of such coins disappear. Ofcourse the delisting will affect the price of privacy coins negatively but I doubt it will bring the existence of the coins to end.     The real price will will probably be based on demands from non-exchange buyers/sellers

[sockpuppet1911]

Privacy coins can be used without exchanges. so I don’t see how this will make all of such coins disappear. Ofcourse the delisting will affect the price of privacy coins negatively but I doubt it will bring the existence of the coins to end.     The real price will will probably be based on demands from non-exchange buyers/sellers

and this is where decentralized exchanges come to play I think.

[Xardasim]

With the announcement of the FATF guidance rules earlier this year privacy coins seem to be suffering as a result. Coinbase UK dropped Zcash, OKEx delisted five privacy coins as did Upbit.

Monero, Zcash and Dash are all valued at under half of their July prices.

Does this mean the end of all privacy for crypto?

One company in particular CipherTrace is working with exchanges to validate transaction data without having to actually share data itself which helps with the FATF travel rule. This will offer some degree of assurance but true anonymity may not thrive. What are your thoughts?


https://cryptobriefing.com/privacy-coins-zcash-dash-scrutiny/

While these delists weaken the confidence of the weak ones, they also cause prices to fall. To me, the value with USD does not mean everything, this does not mean their end. The price with USD is the value that all of us find suitable for them with the measurable value. Even if the prices go to zero, 1MNR =1MNR.

[cybernetik7]

No exchange would want to confront governments. Privacy coins can be used to bribe, launder money and exchange illegal things. Exchanges need to suck up a bit because they want regulation.

[qwizzie]

No exchange would want to confront governments. Privacy coins can be used to bribe, launder money and exchange illegal things. Exchanges need to suck up a bit because they want regulation.

It can also be done on Bitcoin through CoinJoin (usage has been increasing on Bitcoin network)

Link : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/percentage-coinjoin-bitcoin-transactions-triples-over-past-year

It can also be done on FIAT currencies (has still largest usage).

If you really want to stop bribe, launder money and exchange illegal things then we should :

*  Delist Bitcoin because of CoinJoin
* Stop development of privacy features for Bitcoin (two BIP's focussed on privacy for Bitcoin have already been introduced by Bitcoin
   developers --> https://www.coindesk.com/new-bips-hint-at-upcoming-taproot-bitcoin-soft-fork)
* Stop development of privacy features for Ethereum --> https://www.coindesk.com/why-ethereums-privacy-matters-and-whats-being-built-to-support-it
* Stop development of privacy features for Litecoin --> https://cryptobriefing.com/litecoin-inches-towards-privacy-with-new-grin-dev/
* Stop development of privacy features for Ripple --> https://www.ripple.com/insights/going-beyond-blockchain-pt-2-ensuring-transaction-privacy/
* Delist all privacy coins
* Delist all FIAT currencies and close all banks
* Fall back person to person exchanging goods for goods, monitored by offial third party to prevent the exchange of illegal things

Here is an question : why is it okay for governments around the world to attack Facebook's Libra project out of concerns for privacy,
while those same governments put pressure on exchanges to delist certain privacy coins ? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.  

[Patrix_1]

Privacy coins will be eliminated from the market as soon as crypto currencies will get mass adopted. No government in the world will accept decentralised anonymous payments, because they are untrackable and are not bringing taxes payments.

[Convery]

The only privacy coin that I would buy would be Grin. Because it is a coin with a nice community, created by a person that is pretty similiar to Satoshi, the first altcoin accepted by this forum, truly decentralized with brilliant technology.

[magneto]

With the announcement of the FATF guidance rules earlier this year privacy coins seem to be suffering as a result. Coinbase UK dropped Zcash, OKEx delisted five privacy coins as did Upbit.

Monero, Zcash and Dash are all valued at under half of their July prices.

Does this mean the end of all privacy for crypto?

One company in particular CipherTrace is working with exchanges to validate transaction data without having to actually share data itself which helps with the FATF travel rule. This will offer some degree of assurance but true anonymity may not thrive. What are your thoughts?


https://cryptobriefing.com/privacy-coins-zcash-dash-scrutiny/

Absolutely. And I certainly do expect there to be even more scrutiny in the future.

I think that the important thing here to note is that real long term investors in these privacy coins really aren't that worried, as far as the few that I've talked to and the general sentiment on their forums. Especially XMR, they don't look at it as a speculative asset anyhow and discourage sudden price movements.

These longer term holders that constitute a lot of the demand for these coins aren't really concerned about the regulations, because they won't be affected as transactions on-chain can still flow smoothly. All that these regulations will do is discourage institutional investors from ever touching anonymous coins, that's all.