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Author Topic: [Withdraw MtGox] We should tie up MtGox's hands after MultiSig is implemented.  (Read 2305 times)
finway
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November 15, 2011, 03:24:41 PM
 #1

I'm pretty sure MtGox is selling coins that we deposit on it, because there's no terms restricting them to do it.

I suggest after MultiSig is implemented,
we should force MtGox to store coins in the MultiSig Address that can only be spend with our agreement.

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slush
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November 15, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
 #2

I'm pretty sure MtGox is selling coins that we deposit on it

Why do you think?

finway
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November 15, 2011, 03:34:10 PM
 #3

Because they didn't store Bitcoins on seperate Addresses ?

Because selling coins without transactions ? -- Today's  trading volume bump, but transactions do not.

They can sell as much as they can , while nobody withdraws ?

You tell me where the 300k BTCs sell-off come from ? at this low prices ?


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November 15, 2011, 03:37:17 PM
 #4

Everybody should try withdraw BTCs from MtGox,

I'm pretty sure the withdraws will delay , and the price will go up.  Wink

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November 15, 2011, 04:00:44 PM
 #5

Everybody should try withdraw BTCs from MtGox,

I'm withdrawing all my funds from mtgox time to time and I have no problems with that at all. No delays.

However they're using cold storage, so if some big withdraw appear, it will probably need some time to load their wallet.

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I'm pretty sure the withdraws will delay , and the price will go up.  Wink

You're pretty sure, but have no evidence for that.

Quote
Because they didn't store Bitcoins on seperate Addresses ?

Why they should? Managing it is very impractical, for example it needs moving funds between wallets when trade happen. It's nonsense, keeping funds in central wallet and maintaining balances in database is much easier to implement.

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Because selling coins without transactions ? -- Today's  trading volume bump, but transactions do not.

All trades are *inside* their trading platform, why the hell they should creating transactions on bitcoin network for them?

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November 15, 2011, 04:01:48 PM
 #6

I'm personally slowly moving from mtgox to another exchange for various reasons, however such cheap acussations aren't fair.

finway
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November 15, 2011, 04:03:36 PM
 #7

So they can sell coins out thin air.

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November 15, 2011, 04:04:34 PM
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So they can sold  coins out thin air.

You can kill your parents.

finway
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November 15, 2011, 04:06:10 PM
 #9

I didn't because they are alive.
They can and they can't prove they didn't.
Due to the big sell-off, they have the suspicion.

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November 15, 2011, 04:10:32 PM
 #10

They can and they can't prove they didn't.
Due to the big sell-off, they have the suspicion.
Guilty until proven innocent - that's the spirit!
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November 15, 2011, 04:37:16 PM
 #11

Innocence proves nothing
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November 15, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
 #12

I didn't because they are alive.
They can and they can't prove they didn't.

They obviously didn't too, because nobody complained that they cannot withdraw their coins (except some technical issues which were resolved).

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Due to the big sell-off, they have the suspicion.

Don't take me wrong, but it seems you don't understand how exchange works, so pretty standard behavious looks like some conspiracy for you. There's absolutely no reason to think that big selloff has been made by mtgox itself. Actually low price is against their own interest, so I really doubt it.


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November 15, 2011, 04:44:52 PM
 #13

Are we saying something here that MtGox is not running with 100% reserves or something?

I'm more concerned with people saying here that there is only one address being used to store all the value, just one person stealing a single private key and all that would go poof...
finway
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November 15, 2011, 04:47:36 PM
 #14

There's absolutely no reason to think that big selloff has been made by mtgox itself. Actually low price is against their own interest, so I really doubt it.


Increasing the fees, increasing the volume are their interests.
How? What resources they have ?  
Because few people withdraw their BTCs,
if they do sell users' coins,
nobody can discover it.
Why not ?

finway
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November 15, 2011, 04:49:12 PM
 #15

with 100% reserves or something?

I consider it less than 5%.

I'm more concerned with people saying here that there is only one address being used to store all the value, just one person stealing a single private key and all that would go poof...

Shall we pray ?

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November 15, 2011, 04:56:33 PM
 #16

I consider it less than 5%.

You believe, you consider, you think. Unless you have any evidence, this is just conspiracy theory.

I have no reason to think mtgox is not keeping 100% of their funds. As my evidence there are many mtgox wallets handling hundreds of thousands bitcoins, so there's no reason for me to think they *don't* manage 100% funds.

And bring us any evidence or stop this crap. I'm not related with Mtgox in any way, however I'm very sensitive to this kind of affairs because me any my pool is frequently target of similar accusations and I know how idiotic those conspiracy theories usually are.

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November 15, 2011, 05:06:06 PM
 #17

Just because they can doesn't mean they did, no need to presume guilt with nothing to back it up.  As I said in the other thread, a third party audit would be more effective, you won't get a big enough response here to do anything, especially with your less than tactful accusations. 

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November 15, 2011, 05:22:07 PM
 #18

Finway: You're a Bitcoiner, so you can buy five pounds of cocaine on Silk Road. You can't prove you didn't.

DEA: Get 'im, boys.

See where your logic leads? There's 80 reasons not to use MtGox, the crazy conspiracy theory they're selling everyone's coins off isn't one of them.

^_^
nmat
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November 15, 2011, 08:23:25 PM
 #19

This thread makes no sense. I seriously hope that no exchange manages bitcoins like that - one address per customer. It's just silly.

As for the fractional reserve thing: if you don't trust them trade your coins somewhere else. There are plenty of other exchanges and there is bitcoin-otc. We will eventually find out more about MtGox's business when Bitcoin gets legislated. In the meanwhile, this accusations are pointless.
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November 15, 2011, 09:25:48 PM
 #20

Even if they are trading on their own exchange, it doesn't automatically follow that they're doing so with user funds/Bitcoins.  They collect tens of thousands of dollars in fees every month and we have no idea whether they hold some of their own reserves of dollars and Bitcoins on the exchange itself.

There are no doubt some people who use the exchanges as online wallet services and leave their balances their for months without trading or withdrawing but a lot also seem to be trading and withdrawing frequently - if MtGox doesn't have at least the great proportion of user BTC deposits on hand then that should be causing issues with trades and BTC withdrawal and we're just not seeing the level of complaints to indicate that's the case.

They're definitely bad at predicting the demand for various withdrawal methods.  Withdrawals through certain methods are frequently delayed while they transfer funds to Dwolla/Paxum/whatever. 

I absolutely believe it's time that the exchanges submitted themselves to independent, third-party audits but I suspect that if an audit revealed any kind of deficit it would be far more likely to be of dollars than Bitcoins. 

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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