Inheriting Bitcoin

[judeafante]

While I was browsing the latest Bitcoin news to search for an update positive and negative once then I stumble upon this article that insists that you can now pass on your Bitcoin when you die when you used their service,

And this is Casa's Bitcoin inheriting Service that I think will surely be helpful in the future when you passed away (knock on the hood) and your family and relative doesn't know a thing about cryptocurrency and your Pass Phrase as well, Well I think there is a risk involved in this kind of service your relatives can sure recover your Private key but it can be also an exploit to be stolen as well, but they had promised a multi-sig system that can make the inheritance safer what do you guys think?

https://cryptoslate.com/you-can-now-pass-on-crypto-with-casas-new-bitcoin-inheritance-service/

As long as it is compliant and pass the laws that governs inheritance we should support this kind of service, with millions of people going to use Cryptocurrency in the future, there's going to be like this kind of service coming up, we all want convenience if we want to pass our inheritance to our heirs but it will be different when it comes to Cryptocurrency, so we need a service to address our concern, I'm pretty sure it will have similar services in countries where Cryptocurrency is very popular.

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[pooya87]

this seems like a lot of effort, cost and complications. not to mention risk since you are trusting that the company offering this service is going to stick around for years and not just go under because of lack of customers or something like that!

another problem is when you have to change address or wallet. changing address problem could be solved by using an HD setup (share the seed instead of a single key) but not the wallet change. for instance when you want to upgrade to a SegWit wallet and create a new one. or when you want to claim an airdrop like bcash and have to stop using the old wallet so that you can import it in that altcoin's wallet and claim it. have to create a new wallet afterwards.

[Mandoy]

The concept is nice but it seems very risky at the same time costly. Instead of having a subscription at an bitcoin inheriting company we should teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency. If we teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency then we can just leave them a piece of paper or a ledger nano together with the private key before we leave or when we are bedridden. Also it is nice to give them the knowledge how to use bitcoin and how to earn it than just by giving it to them.

[DabsPoorVersion]

The concept is nice but it seems very risky at the same time costly. Instead of having a subscription at an bitcoin inheriting company we should teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency. If we teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency then we can just leave them a piece of paper or a ledger nano together with the private key before we leave or when we are bedridden. Also it is nice to give them the knowledge how to use bitcoin and how to earn it than just by giving it to them.

I agree, we never know if they will actually do your will after death. It will be better if we just tell our beloved on how to use and about our investment before we left this world. No fees to be included but we can also pass our knowledge about it.

[jarhed]

The concept is nice but it seems very risky at the same time costly. Instead of having a subscription at an bitcoin inheriting company we should teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency. If we teach our loved ones about cryptocurrency then we can just leave them a piece of paper or a ledger nano together with the private key before we leave or when we are bedridden. Also it is nice to give them the knowledge how to use bitcoin and how to earn it than just by giving it to them.

I agree, we never know if they will actually do your will after death. It will be better if we just tell our beloved on how to use and about our investment before we left this world. No fees to be included but we can also pass our knowledge about it.

It is very difficult to transfer private keys even to relatives. There is no guarantee that these private keys will not be used before. It seems to me that here it is necessary to think more carefully.

[stomachgrowls]

While I was browsing the latest Bitcoin news to search for an update positive and negative once then I stumble upon this article that insists that you can now pass on your Bitcoin when you die when you used their service,

And this is Casa's Bitcoin inheriting Service that I think will surely be helpful in the future when you passed away (knock on the hood) and your family and relative doesn't know a thing about cryptocurrency and your Pass Phrase as well, Well I think there is a risk involved in this kind of service your relatives can sure recover your Private key but it can be also an exploit to be stolen as well, but they had promised a multi-sig system that can make the inheritance safer what do you guys think?

https://cryptoslate.com/you-can-now-pass-on-crypto-with-casas-new-bitcoin-inheritance-service/

Been reading up some thread about leaving up your inheritance using up some multi-sig or services.

On my own side i wouldnt trust up any service no matter how legitimate they are.I agree on whats being mentioned or posted earlier.
I would rather store up those phrases on a safe box and do include to my last will which all instructions and informations on how to claim those coins are there.

[figmentofmyass]

On my own side i wouldnt trust up any service no matter how legitimate they are.I agree on whats being mentioned or posted earlier.
I would rather store up those phrases on a safe box and do include to my last will which all instructions and informations on how to claim those coins are there.

there's no foolproof method. using a safety deposit box means trusting the bank to protect you from theft or physical disaster. it also requires relying on a will which implies multiple third parties---your lawyer, your heirs' estate lawyers, the probate courts where a judge needs to sign a court order to open the deposit box.

i prefer a method that doesn't involve all these third parties. i hope using locktime for inheritance becomes more intuitive in the future because it's a way to keep things 100% between you and your heir.

[YuginKadoya]

Why go through all these hassles? The third key will be held by Casa and the other key will be kept with a lawyer and you need three out of six keys to have access. What if the lawyer could not be contacted or something went wrong with Casa's inheriting service. All these would just go in vain. Just like the other user suggested. Put the seed on a bank safebox along with instructions. Then write a will. It is this simple lol.

I also had issues trusting these services as well as you can see and I quote

Well I think there is a risk involved in this kind of service your relatives can sure recover your Private key but it can be also an exploit to be stolen as well,

I said that there is risk involved trusting some services and even that safety deposit box that you are saying I guess it is not safe, you are trusting a bank that is very negative with cryptocurrency even though there are a few banks that are open with the idea and there are fewer services of banks offering safety deposit box in my county and expecting the high rental fee involved with it, but I have come to a conclusion that I would just teach an heir (my son) to stumble upon my private key when the time comes and trusting him in doing this.

Put the seed on a bank safebox along with instructions. Then write a will. It is this simple lol.

Where I'm at there isn't a safety deposit box for over 200 miles. The few there are are rapidly being closed down as banks are saying there's no profit in them, that's if they're not closing down the entire physical branch which they're doing in the thousands too.

Even if a few do stay open stuff like this can happen - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

See! Thanks for sharing this! because of that, I will give you love! that is why I stumble across finding a service like this, I just want your opinion about this because I don't really trust banks in handling the matter but my problem is already sold so it's OK.

[darkangel11]

On my own side i wouldnt trust up any service no matter how legitimate they are.I agree on whats being mentioned or posted earlier.
I would rather store up those phrases on a safe box and do include to my last will which all instructions and informations on how to claim those coins are there.

there's no foolproof method. using a safety deposit box means trusting the bank to protect you from theft or physical disaster. it also requires relying on a will which implies multiple third parties---your lawyer, your heirs' estate lawyers, the probate courts where a judge needs to sign a court order to open the deposit box.

i prefer a method that doesn't involve all these third parties. i hope using locktime for inheritance becomes more intuitive in the future because it's a way to keep things 100% between you and your heir.

You could also have it stored in a safe but without any clues to tell people what it is. When you die your family will have time to give that safe to a skilled locksmith who will open it and give them the things inside.

You could use an escrow. Give the recovery phrase to your relatives and the wallet password to a trusted lawyer. When you die they will be able to contact that lawyer and get the password. He won't be able to steal your money with only that password and they won't be able to do much with the recovery phrase without the password.

The best method is to have someone you really trust and can share your wallet with.

[figmentofmyass]

there's no foolproof method. using a safety deposit box means trusting the bank to protect you from theft or physical disaster. it also requires relying on a will which implies multiple third parties---your lawyer, your heirs' estate lawyers, the probate courts where a judge needs to sign a court order to open the deposit box.

i prefer a method that doesn't involve all these third parties. i hope using locktime for inheritance becomes more intuitive in the future because it's a way to keep things 100% between you and your heir.

You could also have it stored in a safe but without any clues to tell people what it is. When you die your family will have time to give that safe to a skilled locksmith who will open it and give them the things inside.

that's one way, sure. if your loved ones have no idea what to expect then it would be prudent to include very detailed instructions on how to recover the coins. then you'd need to hope the locksmith plays by the rules. there are a couple other potential problems with this approach:

-if you have multiple heirs, there could be a dispute over ownership. that's why people prefer to involve a trusted lawyer in estate matters.
-a safe could be stolen or broken into---i knew someone who had theirs lifted out of their house when they were on vacation. the contents could also be damaged/lost in a bad enough natural/physical disaster.

You could use an escrow. Give the recovery phrase to your relatives and the wallet password to a trusted lawyer. When you die they will be able to contact that lawyer and get the password. He won't be able to steal your money with only that password and they won't be able to do much with the recovery phrase without the password.

this still requires trust in a third party---if the lawyer dies or otherwise loses the password, your family will lose everything. ideally, one would want to transfer everything directly to their heirs without this caveat.

[magneto]

While I was browsing the latest Bitcoin news to search for an update positive and negative once then I stumble upon this article that insists that you can now pass on your Bitcoin when you die when you used their service,

And this is Casa's Bitcoin inheriting Service that I think will surely be helpful in the future when you passed away (knock on the hood) and your family and relative doesn't know a thing about cryptocurrency and your Pass Phrase as well, Well I think there is a risk involved in this kind of service your relatives can sure recover your Private key but it can be also an exploit to be stolen as well, but they had promised a multi-sig system that can make the inheritance safer what do you guys think?

https://cryptoslate.com/you-can-now-pass-on-crypto-with-casas-new-bitcoin-inheritance-service/

Why not just set up a future transaction in the form of nlocktime? It's safer and easier than having a third party having custody over even just one of your multisig keys for any period of time, even though that may sound like it's safe for now.

The absurd costs that they're charging honestly make this very unattractive to any potential user.

$100 and $400 per month is no joke here. That translates to up to $5k a year. You can probably pay for actual inheritance lawyers and have bank safety deposit boxes, among a range of other things for that sort of money.

[figmentofmyass]

Why not just set up a future transaction in the form of nlocktime?

the usual answer would be that it's not foolproof for the recipient.

how can you ensure they've adequately secured their private keys? by the time the dead man's switch activates, they may not have control of the wallet anymore. or it may be compromised.

every method has its trade-offs.

[Dabs]

I'm not exactly sure what the service entails, but it implies usage of a dead man's switch. The original owner would somehow need to provide partial access to his stash, or he keeps something on his person or secret that would be revealed if he's not around anymore.

The simple way to do it would be to use any of the online dead man's switches to send an encrypted email to your family if you do not log on for a certain amount of time. Google has its "Inactive Account Manager" but waits at least 3 months before doing anything.

To prepare for this, your family should have some way to decrypt, preferably something like GPG / PGP. A low tech solution would be a password or passphrase written down and stored somewhere secure where your family can get access to (such as a safe, a physical safe at home) and you regularly back up the wallets or private keys and other required instructions to access the coins.

There is another thread that involves transactions with nLocktime, so you have a premade transaction ready to be broadcast in the future, but won't be available or spendable until after a certain block height or future time.

As for the issue with nLocktime, you can provide the private key to the heirs. It will remain empty until the transaction is broadcast and confirmed, which won't happen until after the specified block has been mined or after the specified unix time.

$400 a month or $5k per year may be too expensive for most, that simply rules out everyone who has less than 10 BTC or so from ever using that service (or less than $100k USD worth of coins.)

[darkangel11]

that's one way, sure. if your loved ones have no idea what to expect then it would be prudent to include very detailed instructions on how to recover the coins. then you'd need to hope the locksmith plays by the rules. there are a couple other potential problems with this approach:

-if you have multiple heirs, there could be a dispute over ownership. that's why people prefer to involve a trusted lawyer in estate matters.
-a safe could be stolen or broken into---i knew someone who had theirs lifted out of their house when they were on vacation. the contents could also be damaged/lost in a bad enough natural/physical disaster.

This proves that we cannot foresee everything. I wouldn't be worried that a disaster can claim my safe with everything inside because if you make sure the safe is fireproof and build into the wall, such a disaster would claim the whole house. Things like that do happen, but when a plane takes your roof for a runway, you're fucked. It won't matter whether you have bitcoins buried in the garden or hidden under the mattress.

this still requires trust in a third party---if the lawyer dies or otherwise loses the password, your family will lose everything. ideally, one would want to transfer everything directly to their heirs without this caveat.

It could be a lawyer firm that archives all the cases in case an employee who deals with a specific case dies. This method has to be used everywhere, because otherwise someone could go free if the prosecutor would happen to have an accident on the way to work, or get a life in prison if the same thing would happen to his defense lawyer.

[figmentofmyass]

I wouldn't be worried that a disaster can claim my safe with everything inside because if you make sure the safe is fireproof and build into the wall, such a disaster would claim the whole house. Things like that do happen, but when a plane takes your roof for a runway, you're fucked. It won't matter whether you have bitcoins buried in the garden or hidden under the mattress.

that's why it's good to have back-ups stored in multiple physical locations. if everything is stored in your house, your house becomes a single point of failure.

[btctaipei]

that's why it's good to have back-ups stored in multiple physical locations. if everything is stored in your house, your house becomes a single point of failure.

^ I second that!

dump private key BTC to cryptosteel physical wallet. spouse and childrens were given with pile of those stainless steel cold wallet and know where they were kept hidden in more than a dozen of locations to prevent search and seizure.

1)  Show them how to load that into a appliance (full node) and bitcoin core android wallet to swipe those coins with a QR code generator, and
2)  take your spouse and teenager is to food and other entertainment establishment and travel all over the world regularly
3)  bring no money or credit card with you to where you travel.
4)  Show them and make your spouse and kids to get 2 way BTC ATM to get cash in local currency, and
5)  Repeat steps 2-4 to let your spouse and kids to gain proficiency on getting cash discretely at countries all over the world.

obviously step (4) can be omitted if you have partners that you can trust and regularly referral to in foreign countries.  You also get better rate that way (instead of selling with -7.. -10%, you get to sell BTC at spot and get cash for it)

[Coin_trader]

The concept is very risky considering that the family is not crypto oriented. As the OP stated. The risk is, the company that provide this services might steal your bitcoins considering that they know that your family has no idea about this. I prefer to invest in loaded physical coin and put it on my safe box. Then write my last will and testament and give it to my lawyer. Then instruct him to give it when I'm no longer alive.

[aioc]

While I was browsing the latest Bitcoin news to search for an update positive and negative once then I stumble upon this article that insists that you can now pass on your Bitcoin when you die when you used their service,

And this is Casa's Bitcoin inheriting Service that I think will surely be helpful in the future when you passed away (knock on the hood) and your family and relative doesn't know a thing about cryptocurrency and your Pass Phrase as well, Well I think there is a risk involved in this kind of service your relatives can sure recover your Private key but it can be also an exploit to be stolen as well, but they had promised a multi-sig system that can make the inheritance safer what do you guys think?

https://cryptoslate.com/you-can-now-pass-on-crypto-with-casas-new-bitcoin-inheritance-service/

I still think that educating your heirs on how to use blockchain and investing in Cryptocurrency is  still the best option, not only you are leaving something valuable materially but you are partaking them a technology that they can use in their lifetime and benefit from it, just like it benefits you.

[carlfebz2]

I wouldn't be worried that a disaster can claim my safe with everything inside because if you make sure the safe is fireproof and build into the wall, such a disaster would claim the whole house. Things like that do happen, but when a plane takes your roof for a runway, you're fucked. It won't matter whether you have bitcoins buried in the garden or hidden under the mattress.

that's why it's good to have back-ups stored in multiple physical locations. if everything is stored in your house, your house becomes a single point of failure.

Give me an example of multiple points? You do mean about different locations outside the house or location in terms of places?It do had advantages though but same goes with
disadvantages since you cant monitor it out anytime if those back-ups is still intact or already lost or found by someone.I would be not too confident with such way of storing up keys or phrases.I can risk up to store on my house on different locations as long i dont use up any 3rd party then i wouldnt really worry too much with that.

[Dabs]

One of the rules of backups, in general, is more than two different locations, and the examples given are different houses, different cities, and sometimes even different states or provinces. Different countries generally does not work for a lot of people, as that's too far and too expensive, but that's exactly what big corporations do with their backups, they stuff them in different states and different countries.

It has been called the 3-2-1 rule or the Backup Rule of Three:

1. Have at least three copies of your data.
2. Store the copies on two different media.
3. Keep one backup copy offsite.

To make it clear, here are examples of some things that are NOT backups:

1. Copying your computer stuff to an SD card in the same computer or laptop is not a backup.
2. Backing up to a hard drive that is 6 inches away from your computer is not a backup.
3. Backing up your Gmail to another Gmail account is not a backup.
4. The photos that are still in your camera are not a backup.

The last rule is as simple as just sending extra copies to another house. You do have friends or family or even a storage unit? Some people use bank safe deposit boxes.

And if you use practically any form of encryption, you can even use cloud backups, but treat it as just another location.


As it relates specifically to bitcoin, I make more than one copy of the wallet.dat and just give them two different names. Then I use something like RAR to archive them. I also export either the private keys or the seeds and put them in a text file, then also put them in the same RAR file. I then make more than one copy of the RAR file as these things are small enough to fit into a USB flash drive.

I then put them in 2 separate USB flash drives, but they contain identical data, and stick those together. It's like a low tech form of RAID1 or mirroring. Put them both in some plastic waterproof container or even a tin or something. So cheap you can get from any dollar or thrift store or just use some old box.

Treat this as one unit, then go ahead and create another one just like it. That one, send it to another house. If you don't have another house, or know anyone else you can trust, at least keep it separate from your main house. If you have a yard, bury it away from your house. Don't keep it in the garage or parking unit that is right beside your house.

I'm sure you all guys can think of other ways; be creative. There is no need to bury it under your swimming pool, but I've read someone actually did that, prior to construction.

Go watch John Wick... he buries his gold coins in the basement under the cement floor.