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Author Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain  (Read 34265 times)
realRioda
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December 04, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
 #1781

I can mention one situation, explaining the human factor and their unability to make it on their own.

Member tried doing validation running their node on mac, i presume wifi. Failed validation, node went out of sync. Then I said, you can use web and my shared node. During last validation, member took 48 sec to answer first flip, and wasted all time of shord session on 2 flips. And I did sent all links alongside validation video. I guess, some just are not invested enough and are not paying attention.

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Tytanowy Janusz
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December 04, 2020, 12:32:51 PM
Last edit: December 05, 2020, 08:50:13 AM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #1782

What I don't understand about this "farmers" is: how can they pass validation as farmers but not on their own.

Anyways, if they are different individuals, I don't see anything wrong. If the farm owner managed to convince 500 people to work for him, or to give him a cut from the rewards, I see nothing wrong. Good for him, smart guy.

What I don't like is that the farm owner can dump the coins more easily than 500 unique wallets, but same is his decision to keep the coins or to dump them on the market, even though I don't like it.

I don't quite trust that it was 1 person 1 node. If you are running 700 node farm, you are smart enough to organize it and make it easier for average person to participate (as AI said ... people were trying to go solo but they failed and come back) ... you can make things much easier in may ways to maximalize node/person ratio.

1- you know like 20% of flips (your farm made them) - you don't need to solve them, no need to pass them to your farm. That's why farm care about flip quality. Not because this farm cares about network. It care their flips not to be reported so that they would count.
2- it does not need to be 1 person standing in front of 1 real idena client per 1 node. If he prepared special client for his members his algo can collect all flips in one pool (sort out duplicates - each flip is used like 2.4 times on average) and pass to farm members one by one. Each farm member is not limited to 6 flips. Can go to 20 if have enough of time, it can stay at 1 if that's maximum of "slave" capabilities. Each flip solved goes to pool as solved and is send to each node that has it. That way this farm can solve 2.4x less flips.

So instead of solving 700*6 = 4200 they solve 4200 * 0,8 /2,4 = 1400 flips. And each person go as deep as he can doing one flip after another. That puts us to situation in which 1 person can validate 10+ nodes because its much easier as farm member.

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realRioda
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December 06, 2020, 12:41:31 AM
Merited by Tytanowy Janusz (1)
 #1783

I don't quite trust that it was 1 person 1 node. If you are running 700 node farm, you are smart enough to organize it and make it easier for average person to participate (as AI said ... people were trying to go solo but they failed and come back) ... you can make things much easier in may ways to maximalize node/person ratio.

1- you know like 20% of flips (your farm made them) - you don't need to solve them, no need to pass them to your farm. That's why farm care about flip quality. Not because this farm cares about network. It care their flips not to be reported so that they would count.
2- it does not need to be 1 person standing in front of 1 real idena client per 1 node. If he prepared special client for his members his algo can collect all flips in one pool (sort out duplicates - each flip is used like 2.4 times on average) and pass to farm members one by one. Each farm member is not limited to 6 flips. Can go to 20 if have enough of time, it can stay at 1 if that's maximum of "slave" capabilities. Each flip solved goes to pool as solved and is send to each node that has it. That way this farm can solve 2.4x less flips.

So instead of solving 700*6 = 4200 they solve 4200 * 0,8 /2,4 = 1400 flips. And each person go as deep as he can doing one flip after another. That puts us to situation in which 1 person can validate 10+ nodes because its much easier as farm member.


Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post


https://t.me/IdenaNetworkPublic/136698

kramchers
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December 06, 2020, 04:05:19 AM
 #1784

I am not update anymore to this IDENA, I'm not exactly sure if they are in progress to have an event every 15 and 30th of the month to their own wallet for us to have a chance to mine our IDENA to their wallet. And as far as I know also it was already listed too on the exchange isn't that right? If I am not mistaken it was listed at Probit and its price got dumped from 1500 satoshi and now 507 sats.

Tytanowy Janusz
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December 06, 2020, 07:20:37 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2020, 07:53:55 AM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #1785

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post

I would love it to be true but I don't trust this guys and this whole situation. You know me ... I'm here for more than a year supporting IDENA here on bitcointalk, fighting with every troll, teaching people, explaing why thigs are like they are. But this whole thing doesn't look real. Starting from easy fix that was implemented before validation thanks to volunteer that showed up after farm was exposed and pointed at crytical vulnerability that allows you to validate iwth 90% score (that was ment to solve the problem),

He is playing with us. Main reason why he showed up was to calm the situation so price could recover so he could abuse network even more. He didn't show up because he is good person that want to help. He would do that before his farm was exposed ... not now. He will say anything it needs to calm investors ... that this farm is 1 person 1 node, that it is better to give each person 6 flips to solve rather than run 10s algo and give 2 flips per node, that he is here to help, than it is not as serious as it looks like, that it is easy fix because he is hardly profiting. Price will recover, and he will continue to abuse network but just more carrefour, using many exchange account. We will find him after a year with 70% of network after one smart guy will find a bug that he was abusing. The purpose why abuser showed up and is now a IDENA celebrity is to calm us down. Don't trust every world he says. Don't sweep this case under the rug because this is the day of the final trial. You will make it right and network will succeed, or you will pretend that everything is right because abuser said something... and network will be destroyed in next few months. Remember. He now owns 15% of network. He doesn't need much to auto solve every validation with known flips and random shots. He just need few more epochs. He need time.

I'm just saying that this situation looks so unrealistic. So fake.

Why was he waiting for official announcement before he showed up? He wanted to know how much we know. To commit to the number of node we know about ... to prepare a scenario for himself. Thats how i see this.

I shared my thoughts about how dangerous this case may be, I'm just concerned about my loved IDENA, posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.

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★ ‎
‎ ★
UP
TO
15%...CASH BACK
EVERY SPIN

‎ ★
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     ████████▄
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December 06, 2020, 12:57:14 PM
 #1786

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post

I would love it to be true but I don't trust this guys and this whole situation. You know me ... I'm here for more than a year supporting IDENA here on bitcointalk, fighting with every troll, teaching people, explaing why thigs are like they are. But this whole thing doesn't look real. Starting from easy fix that was implemented before validation thanks to volunteer that showed up after farm was exposed and pointed at crytical vulnerability that allows you to validate iwth 90% score (that was ment to solve the problem),

He is playing with us. Main reason why he showed up was to calm the situation so price could recover so he could abuse network even more. He didn't show up because he is good person that want to help. He would do that before his farm was exposed ... not now. He will say anything it needs to calm investors ... that this farm is 1 person 1 node, that it is better to give each person 6 flips to solve rather than run 10s algo and give 2 flips per node, that he is here to help, than it is not as serious as it looks like, that it is easy fix because he is hardly profiting. Price will recover, and he will continue to abuse network but just more carrefour, using many exchange account. We will find him after a year with 70% of network after one smart guy will find a bug that he was abusing. The purpose why abuser showed up and is now a IDENA celebrity is to calm us down. Don't trust every world he says. Don't sweep this case under the rug because this is the day of the final trial. You will make it right and network will succeed, or you will pretend that everything is right because abuser said something... and network will be destroyed in next few months. Remember. He now owns 15% of network. He doesn't need much to auto solve every validation with known flips and random shots. He just need few more epochs. He need time.

I'm just saying that this situation looks so unrealistic. So fake.

Why was he waiting for official announcement before he showed up? He wanted to know how much we know. To commit to the number of node we know about ... to prepare a scenario for himself. Thats how i see this.

I shared my thoughts about how dangerous this case may be, I'm just concerned about my loved IDENA, posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.

Then you run, don't worry about us
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December 06, 2020, 11:20:53 PM
Last edit: December 07, 2020, 03:41:32 AM by DashingAgent
 #1787

This project cannot be succeed until they add proof of stake along with proof of person mining. Otherwise the coin will be dumping, why people will buy when there will be no use case? People will only sell after mining and the more selling will reduce the price again. a few days ago a fool was saying that it will surpass ethereum with no idea in mind that how?

I can mention one situation, explaining the human factor and their unability to make it on their own.

Member tried doing validation running their node on mac, i presume wifi. Failed validation, node went out of sync. Then I said, you can use web and my shared node. During last validation, member took 48 sec to answer first flip, and wasted all time of shord session on 2 flips. And I did sent all links alongside validation video. I guess, some just are not invested enough and are not paying attention.

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realRioda
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December 07, 2020, 12:08:56 AM
Last edit: December 07, 2020, 01:18:55 AM by realRioda
Merited by Tytanowy Janusz (1)
 #1788

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post
...posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.

I understand, I just wanted for you to see the response since I'm not sure if you are using Telegram, didn't want you to miss it. Since the discussion went on, for me, in 5 TG groups, 3 discord servers, and here.

I'm not saying definitely it's one way or the other, because there is no definitive evidence that points us in one or other direction so I can say, this is how it is. It's just mine feeling to what this situation is about, and what is not. We are just discussing about a project. Only time will tell what was really the case and who was the sucker Cheesy
Or maybe we will never find out.

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December 07, 2020, 09:25:27 AM
 #1789

I am not update anymore to this IDENA, I'm not exactly sure if they are in progress to have an event every 15 and 30th of the month to their own wallet for us to have a chance to mine our IDENA to their wallet. And as far as I know also it was already listed too on the exchange isn't that right? If I am not mistaken it was listed at Probit and its price got dumped from 1500 satoshi and now 507 sats.

For the validation ceremony now every 17 days. Idena exchange is not only on probit, but there are qtrade, hotbit, and vitex for now. The current price is still stable at 500 satoshi and that's pretty good in my opinion. Smiley

Thats because there are no volume on this exchanges and on Hotbit all orders are making by bots. Do they have any plans for listing to decent exchanges like Kucoin, Bitmax etc?
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December 07, 2020, 08:02:20 PM
 #1790

I hope that in future due to competition between pools they will become more fair and will let their workers to own their private keys. It is something like exchanges. Some people keep their cryptocurrencies on exchanges all the time and others use cold wallets. But most of people understand that cold wallets are more safe.

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..I  D  E  N  A..
   
Proof-of-Person Blockchain

Join the mining of the first human-centric
cryptocurrency
 



 
▲    4 0 1 2

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December 07, 2020, 10:26:59 PM
 #1791

Thats because there are no volume on this exchanges and on Hotbit all orders are making by bots. Do they have any plans for listing to decent exchanges like Kucoin, Bitmax etc?

Each point has the goal of being listed on well-known exchanges such as Binance, Kucoin, Bittrex, Kraken and so on. But if we look at the current condition of the IDENA network which is still in the beta stage at the age of which is more than a year, I don't think they are ready to accommodate bigger users when they have many users.

If I can provide some input, then I would recommend developers to keep developing their Oracle first so that it is ready for public use. I think they are too busy with AMA events which have been held several times by the team which currently even calls itself anonymous.


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December 08, 2020, 12:58:17 PM
 #1792



Idena Proof-of-person blockchain to eliminate risks of mining pools

https://medium.com/idena/idena-proof-of-person-blockchain-to-eliminate-risks-of-mining-pools-74d96e16aa36

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Tytanowy Janusz
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December 08, 2020, 02:57:41 PM
Last edit: December 09, 2020, 10:37:01 AM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #1793


This protects us against 51% attack (that is not likely to happend - not profitable) and cheated oracle voting at a cost of:

1- rewards for farms
2- delays in everything - Team will work for next half year on developing all promises that they did to make it easier for farms to farm to make them come out.

This does not solve:

1- farms sorting out duplicates and answering 2.4 times less flips (this opens us to 1 person 5-10 nodes instead of 1 person 1 node)
2- "Idena team activated 60 invitation codes before the validation session to collect decrypted flips. Around 1700 flips were collected." - 60 accounts is enough to collect 1700 flips. With 700 you can collect them all. (this opens up to unpredictable results, for some reason they were encrypted)
3- collaboration of farms and sharing flips between them (two different farms hosted by 2 different farmers that get in touch via telegram and share flip to grow faster together)

This proposal opens a pandora's box but... its not like a have a better one. I kinda feel like we should rather make it harder and harder for them to past validation just to give us time to survive to a moment when they are no longer a thread. This is how idena should be. Limit validation from the same IP to 2-3?, increase number of flips that need to be done between validations (to put down this 2.4). Just dumb guesses.

How about the situation when farms will let you earn more than alone (you will validate 10 nodes each epoch thanks to all optimizations farms can me) and in about a year IDENA will consist from 10 farms with 50 000 members all together and 1000 legit users that mine alone. You need 1010 members unrevealed farm to attack network since those 10 farms with 50 000 nodes has only 10 votes. I know that this is far-reaching
unlikely perspective but letting farms grow and making it easier for them and paying them a bounty for existing opens idena to unpredictable results that might be irreversible.


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bayu7adi
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December 11, 2020, 08:44:03 AM
 #1794

What will happen if validation participants on the IDENA blockchain network increase rapidly to 20k people?

What I learned when 20k active mining nodes were validation prizes are likely to drop drastically and mining prizes are also decreasing. Here I can conclude, if there are 20k active nodes mining, the ideal IDNA price is at the level of 0.6 USD / IDNA.

We need to extend the VPS lease, where the important component in a network to confirm transactions is the node. If the node doesn't exist = the blockchain is in doubt.

It seems that this is the reason why IDENA validators never exceed 5000 people, that's my opinion regarding the growth of participants in Idena which never exceed 5000 people

CMIIW

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December 11, 2020, 10:57:38 AM
Merited by realRioda (5)
 #1795

It seems that ...

It seems that ... you have no idea what you are talking about. There is not even a single correct statement in your post so no reason to point each mistake. Whole post is one big mistake.

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★ ‎
‎ ★
UP
TO
15%...CASH BACK
EVERY SPIN

‎ ★
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onecall123
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December 12, 2020, 03:21:04 PM
 #1796

1 IDENA equivalent 0.094$ now and there's no improvement for quite a while. Since no improvement on price even on the recent rally, I have question if HODLing will be the best choice for Idena any longer. I simply wish is there any chance that we reach again 0.30$...

Tytanowy Janusz
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December 12, 2020, 05:22:26 PM
 #1797

1 IDENA equivalent 0.094$ now and there's no improvement for quite a while. Since no improvement on price even on the recent rally, I have question if HODLing will be the best choice for Idena any longer. I simply wish is there any chance that we reach again 0.30$...

Such a small coin, not listed on any big exchanges does not really fallow wide market rallies. And considering the fact that IDENA had a lot of FUD last days and still many unsolved issues with farms (at least in my opinion they are not solved) price hold very strong at 500 sat. A lot of people are dumping, few whale are filling bags. Like this guy:
https://scan.idena.io/address/0x2251C12699D645f5a649e00f34B7d3320FCb5f73

I'm short term bullish not sure about long term anymore (considering IDNA/BTC not IDNA/USD price).

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TO
15%...CASH BACK
EVERY SPIN

‎ ★
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bayu7adi
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December 14, 2020, 07:37:29 AM
 #1798

This platform is still in Beta stage for a very long time, even more than a year.

What points do developers need to fulfill in order to be able to launch the stable version? be it a node or a client. In fact, we all know that the AMA, which has been carried out several times, is an exchange of information that can actually be done through their official social media or telegram accounts.

My advice for developers is, do your best to develop your project, and rest assured that the business model that you bring will be very useful for everyone.

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December 16, 2020, 04:08:55 PM
 #1799

Guys, I'm sorry to bother you, but I am a bit confused about how I can start the node. For some reason, my laptop doesn't work. Please tell me if there are certain power readings for launch? And why can't you pass the first verification?

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December 16, 2020, 09:18:59 PM
 #1800



Idena hard fork announcement: Oracle voting
https://medium.com/idena/idena-hard-fork-announcement-oracle-voting-adda7c47d8d2

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