Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain

[gost111]

There is an opportunity to participate in the alpha-test

Dear Idena community

We are thrilled to start Oracle voting alpha-testing. Please let us know whether you would like to join in. There are 24 nodes available in our private testnet.
In order to join the testing, please follow the steps:
1. Send a short pm to @AndrewIdena to request access to the test net node.
2. Download the Idena app 0.19.0-rc.4 version:
https://github.com/idena-network/idena-desktop/releases/tag/v0.19.0-rc.4
3. Open the Settings page and use provided credentials for the remote node connection.
4. Use the Oracle votings page to create votings.
5. Read more about how to create an Oracle voting:
https://medium.com/idena/how-to-create-an-oracle-voting-d6d837c2f9da
6. Participate in the votings submitted by other testers.
7. Enjoy the experiment!
There are two smart contracts that will be available soon for testing via RPC: OracleLock and OracleRefundableLock. These smart contracts allow to lock/unlock coins depending on Oracles decisions. In the near future we plan to run a hackathon to develop applications that will be using these 2 smart contracts and Oracle votings.

Source of information : https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements/643

[DashingAgent]

If oracles ever launch then the price may hit 10x or more. I think 20x will not be a surprised.

There is an opportunity to participate in the alpha-test

Dear Idena community

We are thrilled to start Oracle voting alpha-testing. Please let us know whether you would like to join in. There are 24 nodes available in our private testnet.
In order to join the testing, please follow the steps:
1. Send a short pm to @AndrewIdena to request access to the test net node.
2. Download the Idena app 0.19.0-rc.4 version:
https://github.com/idena-network/idena-desktop/releases/tag/v0.19.0-rc.4
3. Open the Settings page and use provided credentials for the remote node connection.
4. Use the Oracle votings page to create votings.
5. Read more about how to create an Oracle voting:
https://medium.com/idena/how-to-create-an-oracle-voting-d6d837c2f9da
6. Participate in the votings submitted by other testers.
7. Enjoy the experiment!
There are two smart contracts that will be available soon for testing via RPC: OracleLock and OracleRefundableLock. These smart contracts allow to lock/unlock coins depending on Oracles decisions. In the near future we plan to run a hackathon to develop applications that will be using these 2 smart contracts and Oracle votings.

Source of information : https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements/643

[madnessteat]

" The Idena validation results

4994 identities are validated:
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/59/validation

Validation rewards paid:
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/59/rewards

Minimum Total score for Humans to get the second invitation and Verified to get an invitation: 100% "

Source: https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements/651

Next validation: 18.12.2020

[Tytanowy Janusz]

" The Idena validation results

4994 identities are validated:
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/59/validation

Validation rewards paid:
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/59/rewards

Minimum Total score for Humans to get the second invitation and Verified to get an invitation: 100% "

Source: https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements/651

Next validation: 18.12.2020

Nothing to be happy about. Looks like our recent problem is still here. Fix presented bydevs did not help at all. 700 node farm is still alive (at least 90% of it passed validation) but it grow up with a lot of new 1 epoch old accounts (https://scan.idena.io/address/0xB41C357D7b2FE65E3ccF553d52994fC564067cca). Eather there is another bug (indefinite) or whole need is in serious shi..

[Pofick]

Devs said that they will create a post about this botnet / farm thing after they implement a solution. So let's wait for their research and explanations.

[examplens]

how do they determine the words that will be suggested to create new flips? it almost starts to frustrate me.
Need to create a flip story with "Convulsion, Fit, paroxysm and Cellar-Basement" words. wtf?

I'm also curious how bots handle cases like this? if someone created a bot that successfully does things like this, then he deserves a Nobel Prize.

[othell_rogue]

how do they determine the words that will be suggested to create new flips? it almost starts to frustrate me.
Need to create a flip story with "Convulsion, Fit, paroxysm and Cellar-Basement" words. wtf?

I'm also curious how bots handle cases like this? if someone created a bot that successfully does things like this, then he deserves a Nobel Prize.

Yeah, I agree, some pairs are impossible to make a story like Bolt & Biscuit, some words are very very strange and even with the description you can't understand what the word means like Ambition & Acquaintance

That's why since few epoch I only making 3 flips, since I don't want to get reported and loose all the rewards, even though I am Human.

In my opinion the words pair should be changed to only nouns not all the grammatical category words that exist. This is also one of the reason the flips are this bad, and you can't understand what the maker wanted to say.

[aleix]

December 2, 2020: Idena vulnerability report
https://medium.com/idena/december-2-2020-idena-vulnerability-report-aa6c0be7ba3e

[realRioda]

Well, I wanted to try Idena web app on my Android phone using chrome browser and "Desktop site" option enabled.

I tried to do this validation after I finished with my regular validation on desktop app so I did not have much time left and I failed validation.
But the video has its purpose, to show you how the app looks and works on mobile, switch flip buttons are small for instance, but it is very usable for validation.
I was helping out untill last moment few people to switch to web validation, since they did not sync node in time, so I did not start recording from flip lottery.



Idena Web App - Short session validation on a Android

[Tytanowy Janusz]

December 2, 2020: Idena vulnerability report
https://medium.com/idena/december-2-2020-idena-vulnerability-report-aa6c0be7ba3e

"We fixed bug, but farm is alive and looks like it was validated by humans."

After this announcment a guy came out on telegram claiming that he is owner of this farm and he did it using real human farm - all nodes are validated by humans ...

There is a guy in RU chat who claimed, that he organized that farm.

He just proved it with this transaction:
https://scan.idena.io/address/0x989DAF4E639ea7438029fdBD3B04c79553F7164C

I asked to confirm sending some amount to top1 idena address

https://t.me/idena_trading/33290


https://t.me/idena_trading/33446

Things starts to be very interresting. I don't trust this guy. In my opinion he plays with IDENA as if it were chess battle but only he sees the board and we bet blindly.

[realRioda]

Devs spoke to him, we are yet to get response/oppinion on the situation. He came out in the open because people were talking about bots/scripts/bug/exploits, it is human pool. I guess he was afraid of getting their addresses killed and approached. Syd checked their flips, they were high quality, made with effort flips. Even used some actual memes for flips, like they are making flips because it is fun to them.



It's Dalik or Max on telegram. Funny guy.





Don't have energy to sum it up and type again after whole day typing yesterday in 10 chats, i agree with Syd, so i will quote him

Syd - Idena Gang Today at 10:39 AM
My take on that subject...
It's good that it's not an IA/exploit bug. Like Sysy said here, what happens is the "game". Sad game, but it was always a legit risk for Idena (in that sense i always thought bugs in short session were an issue but bad flips were less, because it's "part of the human game", whether we like it or not). For me, Farms were always a problem and a risk, but it's also true that I didn't expect such scale that early.

I've looked a bit at the farmers, they all seem to have done good flips, i even saw funny memes in it. It's not even like they are putting no effort. It seems really russian-based  (so i would argue, a bit less clueless atm than indian or nigerian farmers). It seems like they kinda... "care?" I dont think only one guys do all the flips, right ? Anyway, why all accept to give all the power to one person ?  well it was said, money of course. But the scale of that thing that quickly, the fact also that it's not that "careless" , all of this makes me think that it has to be some trust that started the thing. Note also that they have many "humans" status and good results, and manage to achieve to get invites. That's why i unironically think it can be a russian "village" (at least at core) or something more than low paid workers from africa. We kinda need to realize us Westerners than not all the world has that individual logic : in many conservative countries, it's normal to give your vote to a third part. Back in time in France, the village gave the vote to the priest that would then represent them toward the King.
So now what to do?
In the short term, we actually need farms to fight each others (go help johnston - if you didn't understand yet, for info, he is not the 600 guys farm owner). Farms will exist in idena, that's a certitude, we just need that it doesn't kill idena in its infancy, for that we need some kind of balance of power. Like bitcoin, that could have easily died in the very early stage, Idena is in the hardest period before we could scale and reach some turning point. I'm not that worried of the fact that a farm exist : it's more than only one guy managed to do that scale that is worrying.

In the medium term, there will be things to educate people, like watermarks, like many ideas we discussed. Make it EASY to validate. The most hardcore thing is to HF farmers like Ubi suggested. It's a big debate, kinda similar to ETH/ETC debate. Do we let only protocol decide or not ? Like Rioda said the issue is that the frontier is not everytime clear. And they will find ways to clear their marks if we do this... So i don't really like that idea. But good thing imo is that it put the business model at risk. Make CEOs doubt of the value of their organisation. Not very scientific reasoning, but to be unclear on that subject makes the business model more risky. Also that's why i liked the private key idea, even if lemoe made some good point against.
So to sum up: Educate people/Make validation ultra easy/Put the business model of farmers at risk everytime.

In the long run, we can't fight them in other manner than educate and hope for the best. And Scale, that's the only long run solution : making that even a 600 farm owner will own only a marginable part of the network. That's why the early stage are so difficult and why in some way i hope for some balance of power between farms for now...

Devs are talking and thinking about it they will tell their opinion to us soon hopefully.

[realRioda]

We got some more feedback for now...

[othell_rogue]

What I don't understand about this "farmers" is: how can they pass validation as farmers but not on their own.

Anyways, if they are different individuals, I don't see anything wrong. If the farm owner managed to convince 500 people to work for him, or to give him a cut from the rewards, I see nothing wrong. Good for him, smart guy.

What I don't like is that the farm owner can dump the coins more easily than 500 unique wallets, but same is his decision to keep the coins or to dump them on the market, even though I don't like it.

[realRioda]

I can mention one situation, explaining the human factor and their unability to make it on their own.

Member tried doing validation running their node on mac, i presume wifi. Failed validation, node went out of sync. Then I said, you can use web and my shared node. During last validation, member took 48 sec to answer first flip, and wasted all time of shord session on 2 flips. And I did sent all links alongside validation video. I guess, some just are not invested enough and are not paying attention.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

What I don't understand about this "farmers" is: how can they pass validation as farmers but not on their own.

Anyways, if they are different individuals, I don't see anything wrong. If the farm owner managed to convince 500 people to work for him, or to give him a cut from the rewards, I see nothing wrong. Good for him, smart guy.

What I don't like is that the farm owner can dump the coins more easily than 500 unique wallets, but same is his decision to keep the coins or to dump them on the market, even though I don't like it.

I don't quite trust that it was 1 person 1 node. If you are running 700 node farm, you are smart enough to organize it and make it easier for average person to participate (as AI said ... people were trying to go solo but they failed and come back) ... you can make things much easier in may ways to maximalize node/person ratio.

1- you know like 20% of flips (your farm made them) - you don't need to solve them, no need to pass them to your farm. That's why farm care about flip quality. Not because this farm cares about network. It care their flips not to be reported so that they would count.
2- it does not need to be 1 person standing in front of 1 real idena client per 1 node. If he prepared special client for his members his algo can collect all flips in one pool (sort out duplicates - each flip is used like 2.4 times on average) and pass to farm members one by one. Each farm member is not limited to 6 flips. Can go to 20 if have enough of time, it can stay at 1 if that's maximum of "slave" capabilities. Each flip solved goes to pool as solved and is send to each node that has it. That way this farm can solve 2.4x less flips.

So instead of solving 700*6 = 4200 they solve 4200 * 0,8 /2,4 = 1400 flips. And each person go as deep as he can doing one flip after another. That puts us to situation in which 1 person can validate 10+ nodes because its much easier as farm member.

[realRioda]

I don't quite trust that it was 1 person 1 node. If you are running 700 node farm, you are smart enough to organize it and make it easier for average person to participate (as AI said ... people were trying to go solo but they failed and come back) ... you can make things much easier in may ways to maximalize node/person ratio.

1- you know like 20% of flips (your farm made them) - you don't need to solve them, no need to pass them to your farm. That's why farm care about flip quality. Not because this farm cares about network. It care their flips not to be reported so that they would count.
2- it does not need to be 1 person standing in front of 1 real idena client per 1 node. If he prepared special client for his members his algo can collect all flips in one pool (sort out duplicates - each flip is used like 2.4 times on average) and pass to farm members one by one. Each farm member is not limited to 6 flips. Can go to 20 if have enough of time, it can stay at 1 if that's maximum of "slave" capabilities. Each flip solved goes to pool as solved and is send to each node that has it. That way this farm can solve 2.4x less flips.

So instead of solving 700*6 = 4200 they solve 4200 * 0,8 /2,4 = 1400 flips. And each person go as deep as he can doing one flip after another. That puts us to situation in which 1 person can validate 10+ nodes because its much easier as farm member.

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post


https://t.me/IdenaNetworkPublic/136698

[kramchers]

I am not update anymore to this IDENA, I'm not exactly sure if they are in progress to have an event every 15 and 30th of the month to their own wallet for us to have a chance to mine our IDENA to their wallet. And as far as I know also it was already listed too on the exchange isn't that right? If I am not mistaken it was listed at Probit and its price got dumped from 1500 satoshi and now 507 sats.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post

I would love it to be true but I don't trust this guys and this whole situation. You know me ... I'm here for more than a year supporting IDENA here on bitcointalk, fighting with every troll, teaching people, explaing why thigs are like they are. But this whole thing doesn't look real. Starting from easy fix that was implemented before validation thanks to volunteer that showed up after farm was exposed and pointed at crytical vulnerability that allows you to validate iwth 90% score (that was ment to solve the problem),

He is playing with us. Main reason why he showed up was to calm the situation so price could recover so he could abuse network even more. He didn't show up because he is good person that want to help. He would do that before his farm was exposed ... not now. He will say anything it needs to calm investors ... that this farm is 1 person 1 node, that it is better to give each person 6 flips to solve rather than run 10s algo and give 2 flips per node, that he is here to help, than it is not as serious as it looks like, that it is easy fix because he is hardly profiting. Price will recover, and he will continue to abuse network but just more carrefour, using many exchange account. We will find him after a year with 70% of network after one smart guy will find a bug that he was abusing. The purpose why abuser showed up and is now a IDENA celebrity is to calm us down. Don't trust every world he says. Don't sweep this case under the rug because this is the day of the final trial. You will make it right and network will succeed, or you will pretend that everything is right because abuser said something... and network will be destroyed in next few months. Remember. He now owns 15% of network. He doesn't need much to auto solve every validation with known flips and random shots. He just need few more epochs. He need time.

I'm just saying that this situation looks so unrealistic. So fake.

Why was he waiting for official announcement before he showed up? He wanted to know how much we know. To commit to the number of node we know about ... to prepare a scenario for himself. Thats how i see this.

I shared my thoughts about how dangerous this case may be, I'm just concerned about my loved IDENA, posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.

[DashingAgent]

This project cannot be succeed until they add proof of stake along with proof of person mining. Otherwise the coin will be dumping, why people will buy when there will be no use case? People will only sell after mining and the more selling will reduce the price again. a few days ago a fool was saying that it will surpass ethereum with no idea in mind that how?

I can mention one situation, explaining the human factor and their unability to make it on their own.

Member tried doing validation running their node on mac, i presume wifi. Failed validation, node went out of sync. Then I said, you can use web and my shared node. During last validation, member took 48 sec to answer first flip, and wasted all time of shord session on 2 flips. And I did sent all links alongside validation video. I guess, some just are not invested enough and are not paying attention.

[realRioda]

Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post

...posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.

I understand, I just wanted for you to see the response since I'm not sure if you are using Telegram, didn't want you to miss it. Since the discussion went on, for me, in 5 TG groups, 3 discord servers, and here.

I'm not saying definitely it's one way or the other, because there is no definitive evidence that points us in one or other direction so I can say, this is how it is. It's just mine feeling to what this situation is about, and what is not. We are just discussing about a project. Only time will tell what was really the case and who was the sucker
Or maybe we will never find out.