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Author Topic: Need some opinions on unregulated business  (Read 2453 times)
Hawker
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November 21, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
 #21

If it's free then people will buy from wherever they want. If they want to protect the environment they buy from eco friendly companies . IF they don't want they buy from non eco . And you do as you please , you want to protect the trees , preach about it. It doesn't work the environment is screwed . The environment is screwed we adapt like we did before.

That logic fails if the people who suffer from pollution are not the same ones as those doing the buying. 

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Hawker
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November 21, 2011, 11:01:09 PM
 #22

Just like the threat of death has completely eliminated murders in the US? Nobody murders there, right, knowing that they will pay for it with their lives?

It is easy to get away with murder in the US and any other country because only criminals carry guns or other weapons. The basic premise of my system is that everyone has lethal force so that individual strength is equalized. A teenage girl would have way better chances of successfully defending against a male attacker if they both have guns than if none of them do, for example.

Yes.  An American Army hog tied by the delusion you can win the hearts and minds of people who's country you are occupying gives up in disgust when people don't show them some love.

Contrast the Russians in Chechnya or Israelis in Palestine.  Bombs and missiles by the ton - and they both won.

As I said, people with guns are essentially helpless against modern armies.  For a short while they can make nuisance of themselves with shoot and skoot tactics but unless they are backed by a state providing modern ordinance, they will be eliminated.

That's why I don't understand people saying they want to dissolve the state in their own country.  It just means that a foreign country gets your land and its resources while you get to choose between the graveyard and subservience.

What about Russia's invasion of Afghanistan?

Anyway, your suggestion that bombs and missiles would help in any way against assassins is still retarded.

Russia wasn't defeated by Afghans alone you know.  There was this place called America supplying Stinger missiles, landmines and a whole load of other ordinance.  It was a distinctly American victory.

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November 22, 2011, 06:07:20 AM
 #23

In my kind of anarchy everyone has guns and nobody is afraid to use them. You could try to get away with dumping nuclear waste in a river or fixing wages but that will net you a lot of enemies wanting to blow your head off, so exploitation would not occur because the profit obtained from it would not even come close to paying for the cost of making enemies with public legitimacy.

Yes, I'm sure it would play out more like two old coots sitting on their front porches with their rifles threatening the other not to dump waste on their land and not a company with their own PMC, planes, and bombs threatening poor villagers who have 4 handguns and a possibly functional WWII era grenade.
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November 22, 2011, 07:20:23 AM
 #24

It is easy to get away with murder in the US and any other country because only criminals carry guns or other weapons. The basic premise of my system is that everyone has lethal force so that individual strength is equalized. A teenage girl would have way better chances of successfully defending against a male attacker if they both have guns than if none of them do, for example.

I thought you said that the risk of death was the preventing factor? AFAIK there are more more murders in the US that have that risk than in Canada where murderers don't face that risk?
I don't want to get into a debate regarding guns as it is as futile as it is tiresome.

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rahl
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November 22, 2011, 05:50:25 PM
 #25

I've been a libertarian for a number of years and I consider myself a staunch anarcho-capitialist. But one thing that I've never been able to resolve is how to stop exploitation (environment, people, etc) in a true free market. I'd like some of your opinions on how this might be addressed. Let me give you some examples:

We don't really want no regulation, we want self-regulation.

Quote
Currently, we have several companies that are basically destroying the environment in several African countries and decimating the regional or local economies. If they were unregulated, would this behavior not increase?

That is because the state has destroyed the concept of private property and punishes anyone that try to enforce property rights there.

Quote
What about labor exploitation? While I don't agree with the assessment most people have about Walmart being a slave labor company, let's use it for our example. So Walmart pays its workers slave wages and they toil away long hours working for little money. Right now, we can say that they choose to do so because, if they didn't like it, they could go elsewhere and earn a higher wage or upgrade their skills to get a better job. But what happens in an unregulated market where Walmart gets together with every other retail giant and price fixes labor costs? At that point, the laborers only option is to upgrade their skill but then they aren't making enough to pay for the education required to do that.

There will always be a group of relatively poor in society. In a government regulated labour market it will be unemployed and they have no hope. In a free-market it will be people who have just entered the workforce with very poor skills, and they generally advance to better positions eventually. Among the employed it is not the same people that are poor year from year even if the poverty rate should remain unchanged.

Cartels don't hold not on the sale or employer side. If they are trying to fix the wages below market equilibrium the first one breaking the cartel and paying equilibrium wages will soak up all the non-stealing and smiling people willing to do a Wallmart job and it will make there service better and reduce cost from employees being lazy or stealing and breaking stuff without reporting it. So they will become more effective then all the other firms and take much of the market from them.

Cartels only work when government makes the barriers of entry very high so you have the same few huge business in a market for a very long time that can develop the connections and trust to each other necessary for it to hold.
 
It is even more unlikely a wage cartel would work then a sale price cartel. Because they aren't just competing against other companies selling the same product or service. They are competing against all low-skilled labour employers, which can be in completely different industries.

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November 22, 2011, 07:04:21 PM
 #26


Cartels only work when government makes the barriers of entry very high !... snip ...!

Fine. What's the barriers of entry that prevents you from competing with Walmart? I keep hearing this argument that the government prevents you. Let's see some real world examples of that.

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EhVedadoOAnonimato
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November 23, 2011, 08:54:42 AM
 #27


Cartels only work when government makes the barriers of entry very high !... snip ...!

Fine. What's the barriers of entry that prevents you from competing with Walmart?

You mean that highly efficient retail store that has succeeded in lowering prices considerably, making the lives of the poorest more affordable?
The main barrier there is being better than them. They are doing a great service to their clients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A
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November 23, 2011, 09:23:10 AM
 #28


Cartels only work when government makes the barriers of entry very high !... snip ...!

Fine. What's the barriers of entry that prevents you from competing with Walmart?

You mean that highly efficient retail store that has succeeded in lowering prices considerably, making the lives of the poorest more affordable?
The main barrier there is being better than them. They are doing a great service to their clients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A

That's not really the artificial government barrier that everyone constantly keeps referring to. The one that is "very high". High enough to prevent people from competing.

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rainingbitcoins
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November 23, 2011, 11:09:08 AM
 #29

We don't really want no regulation, we want self-regulation.

In practice, these are exactly the same thing.

I think libertarians need a strong central government, because without them, they'd have nobody to blame all of capitalism's problems on.

Like how fucked does your brain have to be to see a company that exists solely to make a profit doing something evil for entirely profit-based motives, then determine the problem was somehow the government's fault?  I've seen more hardcore Christians find fault with their own bibles than I've seen libertarians find fault with any business anywhere for any reason.  You guys should probably quit pretending this ridiculous shit has some basis in logic, and just admit that it's your religion. At least that'd be somewhat honest.
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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November 23, 2011, 01:20:36 PM
 #30

Fine. What's the barriers of entry that prevents you from competing with Walmart?

You mean that highly efficient retail store that has succeeded in lowering prices considerably, making the lives of the poorest more affordable?
The main barrier there is being better than them. They are doing a great service to their clients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A

That's not really the artificial government barrier that everyone constantly keeps referring to.

Of course not. I meant that Wallmart has a large share of market because they deserve it. They have greatly contributed to society.
Wallmart is not "abusing" of his big market share to practice high prices, quite on the contrary, it earned his market share for practicing low prices! The day their price/quality ratio is not competitive any more, they will lose market share. Or if someone one day manages to be even better than them.

You should watch that whole Penn & Teller episode (my link above is to its first part) if you are among those who hate Wallmart.
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