Poll-Majority of Republicans believe Trump a better president than Lincoln

[ChiBitCTy]

Now while just 53% of those polled agreed that Trump is the better of the two, that's still 53% of pure insanity.   Love or hate Trump, this is hardly debatable while using facts to support this claim. Having been born in the same city Abe spent most of his life in, I was forced to learn a whole lot about this president. While I admit slight bias having a connection to Abe, it doesn't stop me from admitting maybe he wasn't the greatest US president of all time (though I believe he likely was).  That's right, Abe is considered by the majority of US historians to be the greatest US President of all time.  

"Honest Trump" is something you'll never hear anyone nickname Donald as they have Abe.  Known to be the most honest president, who freed the slaves and reunited the country from a bloody civil war.. the man's accomplishments are one of legend. Donald has done just the opposite, and divided a nation.  Love him or hate him, this is a fact.

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...



Note: I'm a hardcore Independent.  I like things from each of the 3 main parties  (including Libertarians). I also despise the vast majority of the politicians from each party, as they're mostly utterly corrupt.  I never understood why someone not monetarily connected to a party (ex-you work directly for that party) would choose one to call their own personally, but that's for a different discussion for another day.

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[Deathwing]

Ehh... I wouldn't say that Abraham Lincoln was best of the best but comparing it to Trump in today's terms is not the right thing to do. Although there are several clauses of Trump I heavily support, he still has done a lot of things that are not "good" per se. But in the first place, comparing Abraham Lincoln from the 19th Century and Trump from the contemporary era, it just doesn't make sense.

[TECSHARE]

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery, made the people of the US chattel property, and locked up journalists and politicians who criticized him. He was possibly our worst president ever nearly destroying our nation and putting us back under banker servitude.

[Juggy777]

Now while just 53% of those polled agreed that Trump is the better of the two, that's still 53% of pure insanity.   Love or hate Trump, this is hardly debatable while using facts to support this claim. Having been born in the same city Abe spent most of his life in, I was forced to learn a whole lot about this president. While I admit slight bias having a connection to Abe, it doesn't stop me from admitting maybe he wasn't the greatest US president of all time (though I believe he likely was).  That's right, Abe is considered by the majority of US historians to be the greatest US President of all time.  

"Honest Trump" is something you'll never hear anyone nickname Donald as they have Abe.  Known to be the most honest president, who freed the slaves and reunited the country from a bloody civil war.. the man's accomplishments are one of legend. Donald has done just the opposite, and divided a nation.  Love him or hate him, this is a fact.

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...



Note: I'm a hardcore Independent.  I like things from each of the 3 main parties  (including Libertarians). I also despise the vast majority of the politicians from each party, as they're mostly utterly corrupt.  I never understood why someone not monetarily connected to a party (ex-you work directly for that party) would choose one to call their own personally, but that's for a different discussion for another day.

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery, made the people of the US chattel property, and locked up journalists and politicians who criticized him. He was possibly our worst president ever nearly destroying our nation and putting us back under banker servitude.

If I had to cast a vote to choose between Abe or Trump I would pick Trump because he’s not a tyrant at least not yet. I don’t know what you read about Abe, but you forgot to dig deep otherwise you would have realised that he was a tyrant who wanted all power for himself. However Trump takes decisions within his power, and he also signed the bills on Hong Kong instead of using his power to veto the bill hence in my opinion he’s a better president than Lincoln.

Sources:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/was-lincoln-a-tyrant

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/27/trump-signs-bill-backing-hong-kong-protesters-into-law-in-spite-of-beijings-objections.html

[TECSHARE]

If I had to cast a vote to choose between Abe or Trump I would pick Trump because he’s not a tyrant at least not yet. I don’t know what you read about Abe, but you forgot to dig deep otherwise you would have realised that he was a tyrant who wanted all power for himself. However Trump takes decisions within his power, and he also signed the bills on Hong Kong instead of using his power to veto the bill hence in my opinion he’s a better president than Lincoln.

Sources:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/was-lincoln-a-tyrant

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/27/trump-signs-bill-backing-hong-kong-protesters-into-law-in-spite-of-beijings-objections.html

I read enough to know he was a pathetic excuse for a man who doesn't deserve his reputation in any way. I have actually been to his home and learned a lot about his early life being from "The Land of Lincoln". He was likely an imbecile who was manipulated by outside forces and his early family life consisted of regular abuse, neglect, violence, and insanity.

[TwitchySeal]

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery.

If you only focus on the compromises he made along the path to abolishing slavery, it would seem he didn't care, but if you look at his actions as a whole I think it's pretty obvious he cared a ton about ending slavery and deserves a lot of credit for making it happen.

I think this is the quote people use to attack him:

If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

But leave off the next sentence:

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.

Before he was elected he was a well known anti-slavery activist.
While he was running he was attacked politically as an abolitionist (although it's debatable whether he actually was one or not).
He signed the Emancipation Proclamation (basically an executive order that freed millions of slaves), worked to help 13 Amendment get ratified, supported recolonizing Liberia so that freed slaves had access to a safe place to live, I could go on and on.

[TECSHARE]

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery.

If you only focus on the compromises he made along the path to abolishing slavery, it would seem he didn't care, but if you look at his actions as a whole I think it's pretty obvious he cared a ton about ending slavery and deserves a lot of credit for making it happen.

I think this is the quote people use to attack him:

If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

But leave off the next sentence:

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.

Before he was elected he was a well known anti-slavery activist.
While he was running he was attacked politically as an abolitionist (although it's debatable whether he actually was one or not).
He signed the Emancipation Proclamation (basically an executive order that freed millions of slaves), worked to help 13 Amendment get ratified, supported recolonizing Liberia so that freed slaves had access to a safe place to live, I could go on and on.

The civil war was not about slavery. Lincoln didn't free a single slave, it just made all US citizens equally enslaved as chattel property.

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm


"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people . . . . I as much as any man am in favor of the superior position assigned to the white race."~ Abraham Lincoln, First Lincoln-Douglas Debate, Ottawa, Illinois, Sept. 18, 1858, in The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln vol.3, pp. 145-146.

"Free them, and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this.... We cannot, then, make them equals." -- Abraham Lincoln, "Lincoln's Reply to Douglas," p. 444

more:

https://americanstalin.com/

https://undividednation.us/the-emancipation-proclamation-didnt-free-any-slaves/

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/Lib30801.htm

[TwitchySeal]

Lincoln didn't free a single slave, it just made all US citizens equally enslaved as chattel property.

My argument is that Abraham Lincoln cared about slaves.  Whether or not he actually freed any depends on your opinion of what freeing a slave actually consists of.

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery.

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

I actually included that quote in my post because I had a feeling you would use it out of context.  But then you did anyway.  Did you read my post?

Lincoln was explaining that he would keep is official duty (saving the Union) separate from his "oft-expressed wish that all men everywhere could be free".

[BADecker]

Lincoln was one of the worst. Look at the real history that is coming out into the open. It's different than the history of the winners.

[TECSHARE]

Lincoln didn't free a single slave, it just made all US citizens equally enslaved as chattel property.

My argument is that Abraham Lincoln cared about slaves.  Whether or not he actually freed any depends on your opinion of what freeing a slave actually consists of.

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant who didn't care about slavery.

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

I actually included that quote in my post because I had a feeling you would use it out of context.  But then you did anyway.  Did you read my post?

Lincoln was explaining that he would keep is official duty (saving the Union) separate from his "oft-expressed wish that all men everywhere could be free".

You are confusing smoke from over a hundred years ago getting blown up your ass for actions. He didn't free any slaves, it is not a matter of opinion it is a fact. Did you even read what I posted? Of course not, because if you did you would know it was a fact that he freed no one. I didn't use anything out of context and I included full sources and additional quotes unlike you, you lazy fuck. I actually included more of the source material than you did as you accuse me of taking things out of context.

Lincoln was a white supremacist. An actual white supremacist, you know like real racists, not just people who you label because you don't like their political ideology. Lincoln was a moron, a tool, and a tyrant and he deserves NONE of the praise he gets. He was quite possibly the worst president in this nation's history. You aren't interested in truth. You don't care about slavery or racism. Your only interest is jerking yourself off in public and confirming what you already believe. You don't have discussions, you just eat your own vomit then puke it up on anyone standing nearby then get all shocked when they don't praise your wisdom.

[TwitchySeal]

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...

I think the answer is simple - Trump has managed to convince people to give him blind, unconditional loyalty.  

They will attack whoever attacks him or whoever he signals for them to attack.  Doesn't matter why or who.
They will agree with and defend whatever he says, even when he contradicts himself.
And they will always pick Trump on a "who do you think is better" poll.  The other options are irrelevant.

Of course, these people aren't really Republicans.  They are part of the Trump party and Trump just happened to run as a Republican.

[squatz1]

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...

I think the answer is simple - Trump has managed to convince people to give him blind, unconditional loyalty.  

They will attack whoever attacks him or whoever he signals for them to attack.  Doesn't matter why or who.
They will agree with and defend whatever he says, even when he contradicts himself.
And they will always pick Trump on a "who do you think is better" poll.  The other options are irrelevant.

Of course, these people aren't really Republicans.  They are part of the Trump party and Trump just happened to run as a Republican.

I think we have to remember that the Republican party is now the party of Trump. People within the party know that if they dont give him loyalty, they're going to be forced out of power one way or another. I use this example a lot on the boards, but if you are to look at Matt Gaetz -- the only reason he is relevant is because of Trumps endorsement and he knows that. He lost to a politically connected guy who wasn't trusted by Trump enough.

There's also the fact that most people don't know about Lincoln or history anyway. But that's another story.

[TECSHARE]

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...

I think the answer is simple - Trump has managed to convince people to give him blind, unconditional loyalty.  

They will attack whoever attacks him or whoever he signals for them to attack.  Doesn't matter why or who.
They will agree with and defend whatever he says, even when he contradicts himself.
And they will always pick Trump on a "who do you think is better" poll.  The other options are irrelevant.

Of course, these people aren't really Republicans.  They are part of the Trump party and Trump just happened to run as a Republican.

People support Trump because he is the human embodiment of a yuge "FUCK YOU!" that the establishment deserves and desperately needs. They don't support him because they are brainwashed NPCs, that is the left's job. The amount of projection from the dems and the left in general has surpassed comical proportions and is entering into mass mental illness territory. This is classic D.A.R.V.O. tactics and is pretty much currently the foundation of the left in general.

To people who act as if emotion is equivalent to logic, it seems like a great strategy. To sane people it is like watching a sad ventriloquist act. He is going to win again in 2020 because people like you still don't get why people are rejecting your ideals. It is mostly because they find you revolting, not that they support Trump.

[TwitchySeal]

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...

I think the answer is simple - Trump has managed to convince people to give him blind, unconditional loyalty.  

They will attack whoever attacks him or whoever he signals for them to attack.  Doesn't matter why or who.
They will agree with and defend whatever he says, even when he contradicts himself.
And they will always pick Trump on a "who do you think is better" poll.  The other options are irrelevant.

Of course, these people aren't really Republicans.  They are part of the Trump party and Trump just happened to run as a Republican.

Almost forgot, they also believe that Trump winning in 2020 is a foregone conclusion and consider anyone with different political views brainwashed.  

Not saying everyone that supports Trump is a subscriber to these cultish beliefs, by the way. it's possible to support him and be rational about it. 

[TECSHARE]

How can anyone state this while providing intelligent examples of why they believe this to be true? I would love to hear them...

I think the answer is simple - Trump has managed to convince people to give him blind, unconditional loyalty.  

They will attack whoever attacks him or whoever he signals for them to attack.  Doesn't matter why or who.
They will agree with and defend whatever he says, even when he contradicts himself.
And they will always pick Trump on a "who do you think is better" poll.  The other options are irrelevant.

Of course, these people aren't really Republicans.  They are part of the Trump party and Trump just happened to run as a Republican.

Almost forgot, they also believe that Trump winning in 2020 is a foregone conclusion and consider anyone with different political views brainwashed.  

Not saying everyone that supports Trump is a subscriber to these cultish beliefs, by the way. it's possible to support him and be rational about it. 

Talking to yourself now?

[accuses Trump supporters of blind loyalty]
[points fingers about accusations of brainwashing]
[accuses Trump supporters of being "cultish"]
[even more projection]

The left needs to learn some new tricks. The reason Trump winning 2020 is a foregone conclusion is because people are just so absolutely repulsed by your projection they would vote for a steaming turd as long as it is not a progressive postmodernist narcissist lunatic. Your inability to recognize this driving dynamic as you continually double down on it is exactly what assures his win. His victory is assured by your own behavior. Keep them pointing fingers strong. You're doin' great kid.

[Gyfts]

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Recency_Bias


Recency bias is a thing. I have no doubt if this question was proposed during Obama's term that democrats would have claimed nearly the same thing. These types of polls are heavily misleading because the question's perception is hugely subjective. Define "better"? As mentioned above, Lincoln was a white supremacist (but does this negate his anti-slavery efforts? Probably better for another discussion thread), so it's not inconceivable for Republicans to have this sort of perception when voting Trump a "better" President. That's the nature of subjective, non-concrete questions when coming from these polls. Another interesting poll: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/08/transgender-issues-divide-republicans-and-democrats/. Nearly 2/3 of democrats believe gender is NOT determined at birth seemingly to imply that you are free to choose your gender as you please which is as anti-scientific as it gets, but that's the nature of these polls. They pose blanket questions without nuance.

[TECSHARE]

Really, for as many unhinged anti-Trumpers there are out there (and there are a lot), there is an equal contingency of unhinged pro-Trumpers, and they seemingly all voted in this poll.

More false equivalence.

[BADecker]

Really, for as many unhinged anti-Trumpers there are out there (and there are a lot), there is an equal contingency of unhinged pro-Trumpers, and they seemingly all voted in this poll.

More false equivalence.

https://i.imgur.com/6g39sr3.jpg

Exactly!

The difference is that the average Dem is, or is starting to, recognizing the benefits Trump is bringing to the US and the world. Outside of the dumb Dems, who think that some joker like Bernie will give them all $million-dollar homes and a $million-dollar income a year for life (or some other stupid silliness), EVERYBODY is starting to feel the relief that Trump is bringing.

In general, Trump is bringing freedom. In general, Lincoln simply transferred slave ownership to government through the 14th Amendment. Worse, the 14th Amendment makes everyone a slave... not just a certain segment of society.