"HCP's ongoing experiment of the BotHIVE.io Trading Platform"™

[Tradeout]

Did cryptospark have the gumption to tell the channel that this new loss is another 'blessing'?

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[TMAN]

sorry dude. i'm sure all of us who spoke against him feel bad for your loss. you dont deserve a "i told you so"

I will say - backtests are horseshit though!

[Railai]

Trying to be devil's advocate, that dump of 0.02x btc was not as it could've been and I can find several reasons why I am expressing so, but the developer saying manipulation is fucked up.
What is the bot doing than? Trading only there is manipulation? It is ridiculous; you're at 40% of your investment already, he's taking fees from what? Profit!? Where's that? That dump was a perfect moment to maybe double your base buy, I actually had a good short on it.

Quite bad; you shouldn't continue with it anymore, this is way more than gambling at this point. You're gambling and your odds are only with minus.

I am actually curious if there are people really winning money out of it.

[TMAN]

I am actually curious if there are people really winning money out of it.

Nobody can be in profit with this bot other than the maker who made his commission on the small trades that gained BTC before the big losses - as I and many others said, backtesting means fuck all in this market

[HCP]

Yeah... I'm only really holding on because I want to see the "platform" that the bot maker keeps going on about and these other bots (apparently there are six in total) that all have different levels of aggressiveness.

At this stage, the bot is "stuck" in another trade... has been holding a Long position for nearly 17 hours so far, while the price has been slowly trending downwards... It had a small "win"  of 0.00082318 XBT, which equates to 1.8%... but due to the price slowly trending down the last 17 hours... it now has a small loss on the current position, so that small gain has the potential to disappear completely if the stoploss at 9116 gets hit:






Orders from current activity:



Trades from current activity:

[pooya87]

Trying to be devil's advocate, that dump of 0.02x btc was not as it could've been and I can find several reasons why I am expressing so, but the developer saying manipulation is fucked up.
What is the bot doing than? Trading only there is manipulation? It is ridiculous; you're at 40% of your investment already,

the term "manipulation" has always been used by all those who wanted to justify their mistakes in bitcoin market. and it is not an exception here either. manipulation exists and if people can't account for it beforehand then they shouldn't be creating and selling bots. not to mention that what happened here was simply normal bitcoin price fluctuations that had nothing to do with manipulation!

[Railai]

Trying to be devil's advocate, that dump of 0.02x btc was not as it could've been and I can find several reasons why I am expressing so, but the developer saying manipulation is fucked up.
What is the bot doing than? Trading only there is manipulation? It is ridiculous; you're at 40% of your investment already,

the term "manipulation" has always been used by all those who wanted to justify their mistakes in bitcoin market. and it is not an exception here either. manipulation exists and if people can't account for it beforehand then they shouldn't be creating and selling bots. not to mention that what happened here was simply normal bitcoin price fluctuations that had nothing to do with manipulation!

Yes, very much indeed. Anyway most of the big btc markets are being used by bots, it is a battle of who submits first the order through the api and that's it.
You're a bit mistaken, for years all stock markets or crypto markets recently are used only by bots; and that's fine, who designs the better algorithm and stay better to watch out how the prices changes wins; the excuse of manipulation is so worse exactly like saying to your face: "Shut up, your opinion doesn't matter because I own everything and your using my service because you are an idiot".

Nobody can be in profit with this bot other than the maker who made his commission on the small trades that gained BTC before the big losses - as I and many others said, backtesting means fuck all in this market

If you think this way, that's what trading it is about. Someone has to lose that you can win. But this one as seen in all the posts by @HCP doesn't evaluate correctly the ups and downs of btc. It seems ok for the stock markets like japan, where everything is steady and jumps are randomly (i can't understand the tokio stock exchange at all).
Again seeing this long for 17 hours seems so much like a wrong thing to do; I don't think anyone would do such thing right now. Why he bought at that position? Terrible, really terrible.

Sorry for my typos, I am really tired; 48 hours of working,

M.

[HCP]

Well... whatever you want to call it... the bot sucks...



It manages to take a small win... and then lose like there is no tomorrow... 0.0008 win... 0.01 loss... #proStrats


Order History:



Trade History:



Then the bot owner has massive delusions of grandeur and thinks his bot is being "targeted"







No mate, your bot and/algorithms are just useless.

[suchmoon]

Then the bot owner has massive delusions of grandeur and thinks his bot is being "targeted"

Imaginary "manipulators" targeting his imaginary 900 BTC bankroll? Sounds about right.

OTOH you can't really expect him to admit point blank that his bot is shit - he's not that kind of person, that much we already know.

[nutildah]

I needed a good laugh so I tried to open the Arkane telegram group today only to discover it was no longer available. 

I had been poking my head in there once every few weeks just to see if Crypto "Boy Wonder" Sparks had somehow pulled a 180 and was now kicking ass... All bots were offline the last few times I checked but he was still wowing his Kool Aid drinkers with the test data from his "new and improved" bots.

@HCP: did he open a new private group or something? Are you still involved over there?

Just asking out of morbid curiosity...

[DireWolfM14]

Maybe his clients started suffering form awrecknaphobia? 
Okay, no more dad jokes today, I promise.

I have a feeling cyrptospunk has a new identity and strategy, but can't seem to keep his feet out from under his own muzzle.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221442.msg53725194#msg53725194

[HCP]

I have a feeling cyrptospunk has a new identity and strategy, but can't seem to keep his feet out from under his own muzzle.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221442.msg53725194#msg53725194

Nah, I'm pretty confident that's not him...

@HCP: did he open a new private group or something? Are you still involved over there?

Just asking out of morbid curiosity...

I had been quietly sitting on this hoping to have a bit more 'data' to throw at an update... but you've kinda forced my hand so, here we go...


Soooooooo, after a number of months of "The Platform"™ being close to release... it finally arrived in early April. Ladies and Gentlemen (and attack helicopters)... I give you <!play drumroll.mp3>:

BotHIVE.io! Tada!!!


note: click image for link to fullsize version at imgur

The Platform™

Firstly, it's in a "closed beta" at the moment... so only previous users of Arakne are able to register... and I can't remember if the Arakne Telegram group was closed and the new BotHIVE.io one was opened, or the name was simply changed... but there is still a Telegram Group.

I got a "fee credit" for my losses from Arakne:



So currently (with some trading)... apparently my "total portfolio" is now just over the 0.1BTC that I initially started this journey with:



Although, it does need to be noted that "credit" fee balances cannot be withdrawn:



So, in effect... I only have my "bankroll" available (which is the money that is actually on BitMEX) and I'm still down ~0.065 BTC:



As before, you are required to create keys on BitMEX, only this time they're IP locked to BotHIVE.io systems:



Different from before, you now have to have a "fee balance" on the BotHIVE.io system, so they can deduct the 30%(!!?! ) commission from your trades... there are some rules around withdrawal of this balance:


Min withdrawal is 0.0004BTC




The Bots

Currently there are TWO bots available... Arakne is not one of them

We now have "Manticore":





And "Aethon":




You can choose to use either, or both, of the bots, but if you want to run both, each bot must have it's own BitMEX account as each account is only allowed 2 API keys, and they have to be unique for each bot etc.


It should be obvious that there has been some "back testing" going on as these graphs appear to have been started in January 2019... so as usual, the ROIs claimed are quite unbelievable.

You can see from the screengrabs that I have chosen "Aethon", simply because Manticore looked way to aggressive/risky for my already depleted bankroll.

Bots are "customisable":


Settings "explained":










I honestly don't really understand any of it... so I'm running with just the default "AI" settings... I'm not really buying the 17% ROI either



Trading

Trading results have been "positive"... albeit small gains... and it's difficult to work out %'s etc (I'll explain why below):



Daily PNL:



Trade History:



Order History:




Frustration

The UI/UX, while "adequate" is pretty horrible imo... like putting the close dialog window "X" icon at the bottom of the screen??!? (note: not at the bottom of the dialog, but the bottom of the screen! refer to: this screenshot) WTF??!?

Also, due to the Owner being a bit paranoid about "Copy Trading", there are some new rules regarding setup and use of API keys. You are only allowed exactly TWO API keys per BitMEX account. One "Order+Read" Key and One "Read-only" key... as mentioned, these are also IP locked to the BotHIVE systems.

The upshot of this is that I can't create a "Read-only" for something like coinmarketman.com (which actually had really nice graphs and showed my complete BitMEX history)... I tried, and the BotHIVE system deactivated the bot because I had more than 2 API keys! and I can't use the existing "read-only" API key because it is IP locked

Now, BitMEX does provide the ability to export histories in CSV, but unfortunately, coinmarketman.com does not support importing data via CSV etc So, it appears that I will have to manually use the CSV download from BitMEX and work all this shit out myself.   >

Anyone got any recommendations for a site like coinmarketman.com that accepts imported data via CSV?

In the meantime, here is an ugly chart from Excel that mimics the one from coinmarketman.com which shows the (lack of) "performance" of my initial 0.1BTC since I got drunk and foolishly commenced this experiment.


THINGS TO NOTE:

- The first streak of grey in Dec was after the first hiccup and Arakne was shutdown while the dev attempted to "fix it".
- The long streak of grey from early Feb to Early Apr was when Arakne finally got shutdown permanently because it was obviously "broken". During this time, "The Platform"™ wasn't running either.
- The short streak of grey from the last week happened because apparently their IP got banned by BitMEX, so all the bots got shutdown... without bothering to tell the users! I think I missed some good trades in the last week too!  >   The devs tell me that it's now setup to automatically email users should this happen again.




TLDR;

Dev of Arakne Bot that wiped out 67% of my 0.1BTC investment has finished creating his bot platform website and given closed beta access to previous Arakne users. I've been running it for about a week. It's made some very small gains (~1.1%). The UI is a bit clunky.

[nutildah]

This is definitely a case of expectation vs. reality.

Expectation:





 

Reality:



 

Well thanks for your detailed report back to us.

Not surprised that CS never came back here.

[HCP]

This is definitely a case of expectation vs. reality.

Not exactly... my expectation was to lose everything... that hasn't quite happened as yet. So, it's more "Sales Brochure vs. Reality"

Well thanks for your detailed report back to us.

No worries... I'll do semi-regular updates as and when I can... not quite sure how I'm supposed to get 17% ROI/month... but "fingers crossed!"

[LoyceV]

This is definitely a case of expectation vs. reality.

It's quite strong evidence that you can't use past trades to predict future trades. But we knew that already of course.

[suchmoon]

I'm surprised that the perp is still at it. How much can he really expect to make in fees on the tiny gains he's been making until the next wipeout? It looks like he won't make anything on the old customers due to the non-withdrawable fee credit, so he must be hoping to rope in new victims.

HCP - do you have to pay any VPS fees?

[HCP]

HCP - do you have to pay any VPS fees?

Nope... the system is basically "free to play"... You don't pay to sign up, there are no deposit/withdrawal fess (outside of standard network fees). So, you just pay the 30% commission on your profitable trades... and that would appear to be the money making part (at least for people who don't have or have exhausted their credits).

If you think about it, a lot of tiny wins = a fairly decent amount of 30% commission... Supposedly, if you end up in the negatives, the commission stops... BUT, that's only from your initial starting point I think. So, every "win" that you get == guaranteed earnings for the owner. Even if you just suffered a few losses.

Will be interesting to see how long my credit lasts...

[HCP]

Well... my "passive" investment has been REKT while I wasn't watching... AGAIN:



Another full 30% loss... apparently both the bots got hit. On the bright side... because my bot is now negative ROI, I get a discount on the fees! YAY... only paying ~19% commission now

A few users in the Telegram spat the dummy about it all... and apparently it's advisable to set an "Extra Stop" at around 20-30% to help stop these "shakeouts" from killing the bots... not sure why that isn't just included in the Bot AI automatically, but there you go. I've now set my "Extra Stop" to 25%... it had the result of lowering the expected ROI from 17% to 15%...


Apparently the Beta was actually delayed to implement this feature... again, not sure why that wasn't really mentioned right at the start


Anyway, given that Trade History graph... feeling pretty confident I'm not even gonna make it back to "break even" any time soon... let alone 15%

[LoyceV]

It's almost as if you enjoy seeing your money disappear now, why are you still in this?

You can still do this:

After reading this topic, I think putting your remaining 0.06 BTC all on black (or red, up to you) gives you a better chance at "earning" back your losses than continuing this.

[HCP]

why are you still in this?

If nothing else... hopefully someone googling/researching about "BotHIVE.io" might stumble on this thread.

Apparently, this thread is top result for "BotHive.io bitcointalk":


If it only helps stop one person from losing some money... I'd consider that it was all worth it.

You can still do this:

After reading this topic, I think putting your remaining 0.06 BTC all on black (or red, up to you) gives you a better chance at "earning" back your losses than continuing this.

I think I'd need to hit up the 6-lines or corner bets instead of the 50-50 outside bets to recoup my losses now