[BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon

[squatz1]

Oh come on now sm ...that's more exciting than the .1btc  you are more than likely going to win?
It would be even sweeter if a certain poster didn't go awol.
Rub in face etc....

(seriously, I know you would never do that)

Meh. It's just money.

And there's going to be plenty of rubbing.

Ok, that didn't come out right.

I'm assuming Harris will be the frontrunner if Biden wins.

I don't think that's a given (the Harris thing). Four years is a long time and VPs aren't really the most exciting political figures. I'm still hoping that both parties will push someone less-Beltway next time, like Pete Whatshisname, and whoever that could be on the Republican side... please tell me it's not Ted Cruz LOL.

Totally not the most exciting part of politics, for sure, though I do think that Harris isn't going to be a Biden/Pence in terms of her influence in the admin. She's probably going to be more like a Cheney in terms of how much power she'll wield in the administration. Maybe a little bit less then Cheney though, as she's not on his level of power plays, lol.

Not a guarantee, I agree, but a strong possibility if Biden wins.

2021 could be one hell of a hangover for Republicans.

Could be a rough year. Might not be though.

High likelihood (given the current aggregate polls) that the GOP keeps the Senate, loses the WH, and loses more seats in the house. Nice deadlocked Senate for sometime. Or maybe some times of less partisanship and compromise for once, though I really doubt that.

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[Gyfts]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1317044556328730625

So what are the actual chances that Trump knows this is satire or he didn't actually know and is just playing along...I think maybe 50 50.


On that note though, the censorship by Facebook and Twitter of the Hunter Biden story was by far the biggest blunder of big tech this election cycle. Twitter began suspending anyone that would post a link to the NY post. One of Twitter's execs said they don't allow unauthorized content on their platform, but they've routinely circulated unauthorized content in the pass so the double standard is insane. Plenty of the Twitter leftist are okay with this, but I would not celebrate too early because this sort of tech censorship could bite you in the ass when Twitter and Facebook start to become the arbitrators of news.

Lot of talk about repealing or adjusting section 230 which frees up liability for social media companies. Even after this, I don't think regulation of private social media companies is a good idea. But again, I have a feeling people will be more upset about this when big tech censorship targets one of their own.

[nullius]

Like betting on cockfights or football games:  The whole concept of this thread adequately sums the value of democracy.  It is entertainment.  It keeps the proles distracted, and dissipates their energies in a way that is harmless to the system.

On Votaries of the Vote

Long was I perplexed by the etiology of democracy.  In the past, I thought that people who vote must be categorically stupid.  But I observed that many otherwise intelligent people vote—just like many otherwise intelligent people believe in fairytales from the Bible.

My conclusion is that democracy is a religion.  It is a faith in the purported “wisdom of crowds”, in flat contradiction of all evidence that a crowd acts with lower intelligence than its stupidest member.  It is a quasi-mystical belief in the revealed truth of the ballot.  Democracy’s First Commandment is that thou shalt submit to the mass and obey people who are wrong, if they are more numerous than you are.

You, the fanatics of this thread, are not merely voters:  You are votaries.

As sacrifices to the false god of democracy, you lay upon its altar your lives, your fortunes, and your posterity.

I will not speak of honour, for you have none:  There is no honour in following the whims of the crowd.

Americans, specifically, also lay upon this false god’s altar the human sacrifice of people living in faraway lands, whom any of your candidates from either official faction of your ruling party will cheerfully bomb at the drop of a hat.  It is the American Way^®, an established tradition of the American world-police holy war to “make the world safe for democracy”.  For only one relatively recent and notorious example, look to Iraq:  After 13 years of tormenting that unhappy land with invasions, bombings, and economic strangulation that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, you overthrew its government, created a power vacuum that invited in Al Qaeda, and rationalized it by broadcasting on your TV screens the images of Iraqis voting.  Ah, the heathens had been converted at last!

Salvation through American terrorist jihad:
A convert baptized in the Holy Ink of Democracy!

Newsflash for Americans:  Trump ≈ Biden.

The much-ballyhooed “polarization” is only a ploy of media hype, to regenerate interest in an entertainment that had been faltering.  Voter turnout rates were plummeting, and that was not “apathy”:  It was wising-up!  More and more people were realizing that they are under one-party rule, and that the one party is a criminal gang hostile to the interests of the vast majority of Americans.  It is a worst-of-all-worlds system that combines the least-desirable features of a dictatorship with the corruption and inefficiency of mob rule:  Kakocracy built on ochlocracy.

The illusion was being lost—and with it, the consent of the governed upon which the power of all régimes must ultimately repose.  Vide the (other) Soviet Union:  Contrary to American pretensions, the Soviet system did not collapse because of anything that America did.  It collapsed because the majority of the people did not believe its lies.  Without at least the tacit consent of the governed, even the most brutal tyranny is long-term unstable, and is ultimately doomed unless propped up by external force (as the Soviets and the Americans did and do with their puppets).

The American system is the ne plus ultra of a slave state:  A slave state in which the slaves believe themselves to be free, per Goethe—the true “Dictatorship of the Proletariat”, which the (other) Soviets were unable to achieve.  It would also unravel, if the American people stopped believing in its illusions.

Thus stepped onstage Trump, a professional showman, to stir the pot just enough to get the enthusiasms flowing both for and against him.

Yes, Orange Bogey is manipulating the idiotic left just as much as he is manipulating the idiotic right:  Without Trump, would anybody be eager to vote for Biden?  Both sides are stupid enough to believe that Trump means what he says in his Presidential Tweets.

I think this means that his opponents must be marginally stupider:  The Trump Derangement Syndrome crowd needs for me to explain to them that Trump is a liar, and his fans are fools, and all of Trump’s grandstanding rhetoric is meaningless.  In substance, Trump is approximately equal to Biden—and vice versa.

(As a matter of form, I will admit that Trump is much more amusing—especially when he makes liberals cry.  But that is not an adequate reason to grant your moral endorsement to the scumbag, and to the system that he represents, by voting for him.)

Dear Americans:

Please SHUT UP about your reality-TV “election” show—and don’t vote, unless/until you get a candidate on the ballot in all 50 states who will call on Congress to send up bills abolishing the Federal Reserve and its conjoined twin, the Marxist progressive income tax.

[...]

[OgNasty]

It’s a wrap.

https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/pennsylvania-bakery-cookie-sales-predicted-presidential-elections

[Gyfts]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ratcliffe-hunter-biden-laptop-emails-not-russian-disinformation-campaign

This story is hysterical.

Apparently it's confirmed that these emails originated from a Hunter Biden laptop that was dropped off at a computer store for repair. The owner of the store allegedly was some conspiracy nut that made a copy of the HDD's content's and took it Rudi Giuliani's lawyers.

Hunter Biden being a mess as it already is, son of the Vice President, takes his computer to a repair shop with a hard drive full of sensitive info...potentially throwing off his father's Presidential clear path to the White House.

It's like that one Bernie sanders meme where he comes in with a chair in the WWE, except it's Hunter Biden holding his laptop.

[suchmoon]

Hunter Biden being a mess as it already is, son of the Vice President, takes his computer to a repair shop with a hard drive full of sensitive info...potentially throwing off his father's Presidential clear path to the White House.

It's her his e-mails all over again LOL.

Now to be fair I don't think this story has much traction outside of Fox News. It may energize Trump's base but I think there is a limit of how much Red Bull (or Mountain Dew, I don't judge) a person can take. They're all really fired up, there's just not that many remaining.

[eddie13]

Somehow I feel that it won’t actually do much damage because let’s face it.. Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?
The libertarian in me doesn’t really care either other than the fact that I wouldn’t want to put such a person in/close to a position of power..
Ukraine evidence? They won’t care..

This story has been hot for days and it is just now being mentioned on Bitcointalk.. Not even a thread on it..
Nobody really cares..

Even I barely have the ambition to have read into it, much less crosspost it to btct..

Nullius is very right in many ways in his last post here..
Democracy can only work well with an informed and intelligent population who have good/selfless intentions..
The USA is lacking all 3.. The voting public is 90% propaganda packed imbeciles that care about nothing but their own immediate gratification..

Atleast the constitution is not supposed to be up for vote, but here we are talking about packing the SCOTUS with leftist activist judges to do exactly that..

[TwitchySeal]

Somehow I feel that it won’t actually do much damage because let’s face it.. Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?
The libertarian in me doesn’t really care either other than the fact that I wouldn’t want to put such a person in/close to a position of power..
Ukraine evidence? They won’t care..

This story has been hot for days and it is just now being mentioned on Bitcointalk.. Not even a thread on it..
Nobody really cares..

Even I barely have the ambition to have read into it, much less crosspost it to btct..

Nullius is very right in many ways in his last post here..
Democracy can only work well with an informed and intelligent population who have good/selfless intentions..
The USA is lacking all 3.. The voting public is 90% propaganda packed imbeciles that care about nothing but their own immediate gratification..

Atleast the constitution is not supposed to be up for vote, but here we are talking about packing the SCOTUS with leftist activist judges to do exactly that..

When you look at all the facts objectively, the whole "Biden had Victor Shoken fired because he was investigating a company his son was on the board of" just doesn't add up.  There's also a ton of misinformation about Hunter Biden going around that has been repeated so many times that a lot of people seem to just assume it's true.

So, when an article in a tabloid owned by Murdoch, with the chief editor being one of Trumps golf buddies, and one of the main sources being Rudy Guilliani - it doesn't surprise me that many, including myself, aren't taking it seriously.

[nullius]

Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?

With leftists:  The lower, the better.

This story is hysterical.Apparently it's confirmed that these emails originated from a Hunter Biden laptop that was dropped off at a computer store for repair. The owner of the store allegedly was some conspiracy nut that made a copy of the HDD's content's and took it Rudi Giuliani's lawyers.

Opsec, LOL!  Whoops:  Too bad that Daddy Biden has a long track record of hating encryption.

—Whoops worse!  Trump is the candidate whose “Justice” Department and otherwise administration is eager to ban uncompromised strong crypto right now...

The nineties called and wants their encryption wars back

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/international-statement-end-end-encryption-and-public-safety

In light of these threats, there is increasing consensus across governments and international institutions that action must be taken: while encryption is vital and privacy and cyber security must be protected, that should not come at the expense of wholly precluding law enforcement, and the tech industry itself, from being able to act against the most serious illegal content and activity online.

ruined my third Sunday nap

   Embed the safety of the public in system designs, thereby enabling companies to act against illegal content and activity effectively with no reduction to safety, and facilitating the investigation and prosecution of offences and safeguarding the vulnerable;
    Enable law enforcement access to content in a readable and usable format where an authorisation is lawfully issued, is necessary and proportionate, and is subject to strong safeguards and oversight; and
    Engage in consultation with governments and other stakeholders to facilitate legal access in a way that is substantive and genuinely influences design decisions.

...and Biden is the candidate whose attack on strong crypto motivated the creation of PGP almost 30 years ago:

S.266 - Comprehensive Counter-Terrorism Act of 1991
102nd Congress (1991-1992)

Sponsor:    Sen. Biden, Joseph R., Jr. [D-DE] (Introduced 01/24/1991)

[...]

Subtitle B--Electronic Communications
SEC. 2201. COOPERATION OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS PROVIDERS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

  It is the sense of Congress that providers of electronic communications services and manufacturers of electronic communications service equipment shall ensure that communications systems permit the government to obtain the plain text contents of voice, data, and other communications when appropriately authorized by law.

And there was government policy, which was, of course, exactly the problem to which Zimmermann felt his encryption software was the solution. On January 24, 1991, Senator Joseph Biden, a co-sponsor of antiterrorist legislation Senate Bill 266, inserted some new language into the bill:

It is the sense of Congress that providers of electronic communications services and manufacturers of electronic communications service equipment shall ensure that communications systems permit the government to obtain the plaintext contents of voice, data, and other communications when appropriate authorized by law.

This language received a furious reaction from civil liberties groups and wound up not surviving, but Zimmermann decided to take matters into his own hands.

By June of 1991, Zimmermann had completed a working version of his software. He named it PGP for "Pretty Good Privacy," [...]

You gullible mammothrepts!  As you do every four years, you are “choosing” between two candidates who are substantively similar on every issue of real importance.  But at least it keeps you entertained, and it gives you a feeling of superiority to live in a “free” country—unlike all those Communist countries with one-party rule and meaningless show “elections”.

This story is hysterical.

Nullius is very right in many ways in his last post here..
Democracy can only work well with an informed and intelligent population who have good/selfless intentions..
The USA is lacking all 3.. The voting public is 90% propaganda packed imbeciles that care about nothing but their own immediate gratification..

Modern mass-media propaganda is a weapons technology, like bombs and missiles, based on the same psychological principles as any other advertising.  And it is an unavoidable reality of modern life.

Though there is involved some matter of degree:  I once saw some astute historian say that in Continental Europe, the propaganda must be subtle and sophisticated to fool the populace—in Britain, significantly less so—in the United States, the crudest, cheapest hogwash will suffice.  I think that you have succinctly summed up why.

(I think that democracy is “broken” by design, but I’ll meet you halfway hereby...)

Atleast the constitution is not supposed to be up for vote, but here we are talking about packing the SCOTUS with leftist activist judges to do exactly that..

Lefty court-packing started with FDR’s threat to the U.S. Supreme Court of that era that if they struck down his blatantly unconstitutional “New Deal” laws, he would have the number of justices increased, and stack the empty slots with his own men.  So much for a “balance of power”.

How do you suppose that he got away with instant tyranny, as much as he wanted?  (For pedantic correctness:  Off the top of my head, I don’t know if the Roosevelt gold ban was one of the issues directly impacted by the court-stacking threat; but I do know that the Commerce Clause abuse that is nowadays institutionalized to Federalize everything did start with Roosevelt, for exactly that reason.  And your Supreme Court should have, and otherwise would have promptly torn up everything from Socialist Insecurity, to quotas imposed on how much farmers could grow, etc., etc.)

I’m not sure why the SCOTUS from two decades earlier had permitted the Federal Reserve Act to stand—a subject for further research...  I do know that at the time, the SCOTUS had at least enough integrity that constitutional amendments were required to ram through the Income Tax, and the Prohibition of alcohol.  Nowadays, you know, your wise and benevolent Federal government would not bother with amending the Constitution for such things.

[suchmoon]

Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?

Seeing whom predominantly non-leftists put in the White House 4 years ago I don't think that's what's going in here. It's either "5 generations of my family voted [blue|red] so I can't possibly change now even if the candidate fucks a goat" or "this person promised something that I really like so who cares about the goat", or a combination thereof.

[TwitchySeal]

How do you suppose that he got away with instant tyranny, as much as he wanted?  (For pedantic correctness:  Off the top of my head, I don’t know if the Roosevelt gold ban was one of the issues directly impacted by the court-stacking threat; but I do know that the Commerce Clause abuse that is nowadays institutionalized to Federalize everything did start with Roosevelt, for exactly that reason.  And your Supreme Court should have, and otherwise would have promptly torn up everything from Socialist Insecurity, to quotas imposed on how much farmers could grow, etc., etc.)

A president can't just pack the courts though.  His only real power is to stop them from being packed.  For the number of judges to change, you need enough of the 400+ members of the House that represent the entire country and are elected every 2 years to make it happen.  So, not really tyranny.

[vapourminer]

Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?

Seeing whom predominantly non-leftists put in the White House 4 years ago I don't think that's what's going in here. It's either "5 generations of my family voted [blue|red] so I can't possibly change now even if the candidate fucks a goat" or "this person promised something that I really like so who cares about the goat", or a combination thereof.

well that kinda debends on who the goat is doesnt it?

[suchmoon]

well that kinda debends on who the goat is doesnt it?

We're the goats.

[PrimeNumber7]

Somehow I feel that it won’t actually do much damage because let’s face it.. Crack smoking and prostitutes aren’t really all that offputting to most leftists now is it?
The libertarian in me doesn’t really care either other than the fact that I wouldn’t want to put such a person in/close to a position of power..
Ukraine evidence? They won’t care..

This story has been hot for days and it is just now being mentioned on Bitcointalk.. Not even a thread on it..
Nobody really cares..

I think the story is just beginning. Biden himself has not even acknowledged the story beyond that it is a “smear campaign”. I don’t think this is a sustainable strategy. There are too many junior reporters who have integrity who are willing to ask about it. There is also the debate where Trump will certainly bring it up. Once Biden addresses it, it will no longer be possible for the media to ignore.

There is some evidence that Biden was personally profiting from his corruption. There are indicators that Joe Biden was receiving half of Hunter’s salary that was being given solely to give access to his father. If money was going into Biden’s bank account, he could possibly be on the hook for tax fraud, and bribery charges.

If Barr were to appoint a special prosecutor, it would create another avenue in which the story would be thrust into the news.

[TwitchySeal]

If Barr were to appoint a special prosecutor, it would create another avenue in which the story would be thrust into the news.

Surely you're not suggesting a presidential nominees ties to a foreign country be investigated during the election, are you?  Because I thought you said that was treason or something.

In other news, I recently learned that the World Food Program was one of the non profits that Hunter Biden was on the board for and they won a Nobel Prize last week.  What a stark contrast to Trumps children (and himself) exploiting the Trump foundation for personal gain.  (they were forced to shut it down and they're now barred from running, or being on the board of any charity in the state of NY...I believe for life.

[Gyfts]

How do you suppose that he got away with instant tyranny, as much as he wanted?  (For pedantic correctness:  Off the top of my head, I don’t know if the Roosevelt gold ban was one of the issues directly impacted by the court-stacking threat; but I do know that the Commerce Clause abuse that is nowadays institutionalized to Federalize everything did start with Roosevelt, for exactly that reason.  And your Supreme Court should have, and otherwise would have promptly torn up everything from Socialist Insecurity, to quotas imposed on how much farmers could grow, etc., etc.)

A president can't just pack the courts though.  His only real power is to stop them from being packed.  For the number of judges to change, you need enough of the 400+ members of the House that represent the entire country and are elected every 2 years to make it happen.  So, not really tyranny.

Plenty of dems have openly called to pack the courts in Congress, so Biden would have a say in court packing if there ever was a large enough margin. Biden owes people an answer on court packing, but of course he's already made it clear voters don't deserve to know his position prior to election day (how that makes sense is beyond me, I'm not even going to try to understand how he came up with that logic).

Chuck Schumer has also floated the idea of making DC and Puerto Rico states so that the senate can get 4 more democratic senators. Not quite democratic to change the rules when you don't get your way.

[TwitchySeal]

Plenty of dems have openly called to pack the courts in Congress, so Biden would have a say in court packing if there ever was a large enough margin. Biden owes people an answer on court packing, but of course he's already made it clear voters don't deserve to know his position prior to election day (how that makes sense is beyond me, I'm not even going to try to understand how he came up with that logic).

I don't see any good coming from Biden taking a stand one way or the other at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't sure right now other than wanting to keep it on the table.  Could be a great bargaining chip a few months from now if he wins, or there could be some other reason that pushes him one way or the other.

Chuck Schumer has also floated the idea of making DC and Puerto Rico states so that the senate can get 4 more democratic senators. Not quite democratic to change the rules when you don't get your way.

Schumer can't just make DC and Puerto Rico states.  He could allow a vote on the Senate floor, but PR or DC becoming a State would require a bunch of other votes as well.  Quite democratic.

[DaveF]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ratcliffe-hunter-biden-laptop-emails-not-russian-disinformation-campaign

This story is hysterical.

Apparently it's confirmed that these emails originated from a Hunter Biden laptop that was dropped off at a computer store for repair. The owner of the store allegedly was some conspiracy nut that made a copy of the HDD's content's and took it Rudi Giuliani's lawyers.

Hunter Biden being a mess as it already is, son of the Vice President, takes his computer to a repair shop with a hard drive full of sensitive info...potentially throwing off his father's Presidential clear path to the White House.

It's like that one Bernie sanders meme where he comes in with a chair in the WWE, except it's Hunter Biden holding his laptop.

Don't forget the fact the the PDFs were created AFTER he supposedly after he dropped the laptop off.
You know the laptop, that was probably under warranty that he took to a non apple repair shop.
On the opposite coast of where he was at the time.

Schumer can't just make DC and Puerto Rico states.  He could allow a vote on the Senate floor, but PR or DC becoming a State would require a bunch of other votes as well.  Quite democratic.

Would be interesting to see if PR wants to become a state. Remember as of now residents are not paying federal income tax. So becoming a state would get them more benefits but cost a lot of people $$$. I feel DC *should* become a state OR we as a nation should stop taxing people who live there. It is technically taxation without representation so there is that....

-Dave

[TwitchySeal]

Would be interesting to see if PR wants to become a state. Remember as of now residents are not paying federal income tax. So becoming a state would get them more benefits but cost a lot of people $$$. I feel DC *should* become a state OR we as a nation should stop taxing people who live there. It is technically taxation without representation so there is that....

-Dave

They've voted to not become a state several times I believe.  Haven't really kept up with what's going on with them and DC joining recently though.


Apparently Trump said some pretty stupid things at his rally today, even by todays standards.  Basically gifted Biden an effective campaign ad.

“He’ll listen to the scientists, If I listened totally to the scientists, we would right now have a country that would be in a massive depression instead — we’re like a rocket ship. Take a look at the numbers.”

“He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci. He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci.”

[Gyfts]

I don't see any good coming from Biden taking a stand one way or the other at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't sure right now other than wanting to keep it on the table.  Could be a great bargaining chip a few months from now if he wins, or there could be some other reason that pushes him one way or the other.

There is no reason to keep such a dumb idea on the table. Denounce it or own it. And if you're threatening to change the number of justices on the court to use as a bargaining chip, that's literally undemocratic.

RBG denounced this stupid idea by the way.

Schumer can't just make DC and Puerto Rico states.  He could allow a vote on the Senate floor, but PR or DC becoming a State would require a bunch of other votes as well.  Quite democratic.

This doesn't make the intention undemocratic. It just means his insanity to change the rules will be stopped by democratic procedures.


Also, I think it's pretty stupid Trump is attacking Fauci. He should just leave it alone at this point. But I also remember distinctly Fauci telling everyone not to wear masks in March, not to implement a travel ban, and arguing in early 2020 that coronavirus did not require any significant lifestyle changes. He also during a congressional hearing was blatantly wrong about T cell immunity to which he seemingly back peddled.  - https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-headlines-why-is-dr-fauci-now-distancing-himself-from-an-earlier-t-cell-immunity-hypothesis-he-was-previously-peddling.

Dr. Fauci is doing a service to the U.S., but he is not the only infectious disease expert. Because Americans are stupid and don't know how to do research for themselves, they need to rely on a central figure head to make them feel safe, and that person is Dr. Fauci. So naturally, the media will do its best to prop him up, and Trump very stupidly will do his best to create controversy.