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Author Topic: Is your Android Wallet secure? Most of the 37 wallets should scare you!  (Read 750 times)
giszmo
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December 14, 2019, 03:14:30 AM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (5), SFR10 (2), Lucius (1)
 #1

We've been working on walletscrutiny.com for about two months now as a side project and hope to see many wallets that are currently "only" open source to care more about verification and make it into the "verifiable" category.

With the community's support, this project could turn into a permanent thing, with new versions being checked as they are being published and we certainly would also expand to other platforms and more attributes to look at.

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.

Any feedback welcome

ɃɃWalletScrutiny.comIs your wallet secure?(Methodology)
WalletScrutiny checks if wallet builds are reproducible, a precondition for code audits to be of value.
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December 14, 2019, 03:29:32 AM
 #2

The title of this topic is clickbait. And I fell for it. Grin

Anyway, having been able to check your website, I like the idea and the method you how you did it in the methodology page [1] explains what you do and how you do it.

For an average user like myself, I tend to rely on other people's experience and their reviews on how the wallet is and if it's reputable to trust with your funds. Your website tends to answer some of those questions, and having only three verifiable wallets' suggestion on your end doesn't seem to explain a lot for me. In the end, I still chose to have a hardware wallet that I know I would be in control of.





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December 14, 2019, 03:37:53 AM
 #3

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.

Count me in that category. Being verifiable does offer me much security in a sense that I cannot make the verification myself. I am not familiar with codes and I cannot for sure tell whether there are some bad codes inserted into it. But it definitely makes me feel easy knowing that verifiable means there are a lot of competent people out there, like you, who will do the work for the people like me.

By the way, a wallet that I am using right now falls under the no source category. I am using coins.ph as my local wallet. That is apparently worse than not verifiable. I am also using Electrum and it is still not the most secure apparently because it is not verifiable.

I also have eidoo and exodus wallets. I cannot find both of them on the list, though.

This is a great guide. Thanks for this.





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Twinkledoe
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December 14, 2019, 03:43:44 AM
 #4

Where is the bitcoin core fall into? Should be under verifiable wallet, right? I am maintaining one closed source wallet from the given list but I only transfer bitcoin whenever I convert my crypto to my local currency but not really serving as storage wallet.

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December 14, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Last edit: December 14, 2019, 05:19:02 AM by giszmo
 #5

The title of this topic is clickbait. And I fell for it. Grin
Strike! Cheesy

For an average user like myself, I tend to rely on other people's experience and their reviews on how the wallet is and if it's reputable to trust with your funds. Your website tends to answer some of those questions, and having only three verifiable wallets' suggestion on your end doesn't seem to explain a lot for me. In the end, I still chose to have a hardware wallet that I know I would be in control of.

I only started the project and most wallets don't care cause users don't care yet. I expect many of the non-verifiable ones will slip into the verifiable section if people care.

Once people care, wallets that remain non-verifiable turn more into red flags by my estimate. Also I intend to raise the bar once people move towards caring.

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.

Count me in that category. Being verifiable does offer me much security in a sense that I cannot make the verification myself. I am not familiar with codes and I cannot for sure tell whether there are some bad codes inserted into it. But it definitely makes me feel easy knowing that verifiable means there are a lot of competent people out there, like you, who will do the work for the people like me.


Then verifiability is still for you. Only if a wallet is verifiable does the verification anybody does matter. You like 99.999% of all users take what's there on Google Play but if one researcher reviews the code and the code actually has to do with the app you are running (it is verifiable), you gain security from that guy doing his scrutiny.

By the way, a wallet that I am using right now falls under the no source category. I am using coins.ph as my local wallet. That is apparently worse than not verifiable. I am also using Electrum and it is still not the most secure apparently because it is not verifiable.

In the individual articles I only distinguish between "does not apply", "verifiable" and "not verifiable". No source being available is the easier version of not verifiable, as then I don't waste two hours trying to compile stuff but it's certainly alarming as that means the provider does not want public scrutiny as he could release the code under a license that doesn't allow competition instead.

I also have eidoo and exodus wallets. I cannot find both of them on the list, though.

This is a great guide. Thanks for this.

Are those Android wallets? If you want, share a link on our reddit.

Where is the bitcoin core fall into?

If you are talking about the Bitcoin Core I know, then that is not an Android wallet and in terms of verifiability it ranks in its own class well above all there is on Android, as it actually gets smore scrutiny than all other wallets combined.

ɃɃWalletScrutiny.comIs your wallet secure?(Methodology)
WalletScrutiny checks if wallet builds are reproducible, a precondition for code audits to be of value.
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akirasendo17
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December 14, 2019, 04:37:09 AM
 #6

There is a way to secure you wallet
first make sure your android account are well secured
second remove software that are not needed sometimes we install software we dont know
third dont just install softwares that are supspecious
fourth for wallet always make sure that its legit and never use wallet that are just a week release instead use the proven one
and lastly this very inportant secure your wallet sometimes its not the phone is not the issue bit we forget to properly secure the wallet make layers of security that is the proper way
I hope I can be able to educate everyone thanks

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SFR10
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December 14, 2019, 05:05:07 AM
 #7

Any feedback welcome
I'm not going to pretend that I did understand every bit of the "coding part explanations" but I appreciate what you did there...

Suggestion:
  • You might want to consider adding another column for rating them based on how secure they are [regardless of it being subjective].

Smiley

32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.





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giszmo
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December 14, 2019, 05:18:02 AM
Last edit: December 14, 2019, 11:34:05 AM by giszmo
 #8

I'm not going to pretend that I did understand every bit of the "coding part explanations" but I appreciate what you did there...

Thank you! I'm polishing it and hope to standardize it more, as it should get automated anyway, so what you see so far is the experimentation phase.

Suggestion:
  • You might want to consider adding another column for rating them based on how secure they are [regardless of it being subjective].

Being a wallet dev myself (lead dev Mycelium for Android) being subjective is not cool. I would love to but there is people hating me with a passion because I rated their wallet one star 3 years ago. If I say something about other wallets, it better be solid Wink

32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.

Ah, now I remember how this forum works. OMG. Haven't posted in years. Should I group my posts now or is the harm already done and I will get banned from the forum anyway?

Edit: deleted two posts. Bumping was not my intention.

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WalletScrutiny checks if wallet builds are reproducible, a precondition for code audits to be of value.
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December 14, 2019, 06:11:06 AM
 #9

There is a way to secure you wallet
first make sure your android account are well secured
second remove software that are not needed sometimes we install software we dont know
third dont just install softwares that are supspecious
fourth for wallet always make sure that its legit and never use wallet that are just a week release instead use the proven one
and lastly this very inportant secure your wallet sometimes its not the phone is not the issue bit we forget to properly secure the wallet make layers of security that is the proper way
I hope I can be able to educate everyone thanks

Absolutely, don't install any softwares INCLUDING apps, files or anything that can come up to your phone. Also have a very secured account not only wallet or crypto account but also your social media accounts. Because they can seek information on your accounts that can make them access you accounts.

Much better if you will not leave your account logged in into another gadget because it's hard to trust people easily. And don't post or input some private information in your social media accounts. All of those infos can be a key to your wallet so be careful.

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December 14, 2019, 07:43:39 AM
 #10

First of all, I still don't understand how can people just keep money on a phone which then then they keep unlocked in the back pocket.
Then, as shown by OP website, what you download is not exactly what you expect, even in the case of reputed publishers (like Electrum, Samourai, ..)
What I want to tell is that crypto wallets on Android should really use hardware wallets if we talk about a bit bigger funds.

Now about the website. The initiative is great, but the implementation needs a bit more care for the newbies. In the way it's shown now it's big, it's scary for the newbies and most would not know how to read between the lines the info they need. Maybe those big diff pages should be shown only "by request" by the ones who what to see more than the conclusions (and even those would have a "show more" and a "show all" option?)

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December 14, 2019, 08:27:01 AM
 #11

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.
I'm waiting for Electrum to be verified though we knew the fact that it's trusted but this intrigued me anyway since Electrum is the most use wallet here.

~
Just don't use any extension. It bypass all information from what we search to everything we have on our desktop.

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December 14, 2019, 08:36:04 AM
 #12

Being a wallet dev myself (lead dev Android for Mycelium) being subjective is not cool. I would love to but there is people hating me with a passion because I rated their wallet one star 3 years ago. If I say something about other wallets, it better be solid Wink
You have a point. Perhaps a community rating might be a better solution [I do know that there's already a column for google play ratings but some of them tend to artificially inflate those ratings].

  • Restrict a single IP to vote/rate only once for each [I know it wouldn't completely eliminate users from abusing it but it's a step in the right direction].
  • Implement a system to allow only veteran forum users to vote/rate by verifying/publishing their reviews/ratings based on their provided "signed messages" [from the addresses that are present on their profiles here].

Ah, now I remember how this forum works. OMG. Haven't posted in years. Should I group my posts now or is the harm already done and I will get banned from the forum anyway?

Edit: deleted two posts. Bumping was not my intention.
You already did the right thing and it's quite clear that you're different from other so-called spammers Smiley





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virasog
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December 14, 2019, 08:40:42 AM
 #13

We've been working on walletscrutiny.com for about two months now as a side project and hope to see many wallets that are currently "only" open source to care more about verification and make it into the "verifiable" category.

With the community's support, this project could turn into a permanent thing, with new versions being checked as they are being published and we certainly would also expand to other platforms and more attributes to look at.

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.

Any feedback welcome


I have gone through the site to check the android wallets but found only 3 wallets to be verified. Can you tell me what does it mean by Non - Verifiable ?




 

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December 14, 2019, 08:43:46 AM
 #14

I only started the project and most wallets don't care cause users don't care yet. I expect many of the non-verifiable ones will slip into the verifiable section if people care.
The thing is if the companies behind it were to hear from the actual voices of their users, maybe they would. I doubt it would happen any time soon because I think they don't want someone making their programs open source, especially with the public. Is this the only reason why you started this project?

Once people care, wallets that remain non-verifiable turn more into red flags by my estimate. Also I intend to raise the bar once people move towards caring.
I do think that it would help your project if you conducted a mini-survey before visiting your site to see if users "care."





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December 14, 2019, 10:21:47 AM
 #15

We've been working on walletscrutiny.com for about two months now as a side project and hope to see many wallets that are currently "only" open source to care more about verification and make it into the "verifiable" category.

With the community's support, this project could turn into a permanent thing, with new versions being checked as they are being published and we certainly would also expand to other platforms and more attributes to look at.

Currently, being verifiable unfortunately doesn't mean that anybody would verify any code and we also have ideas how to fix that.

Any feedback welcome

OMG! this post really scared the shit out of me looking at the numerous number of wallets that are not verifiable. Not even a whole blockchain wallet. Thanks a lot for this info guys, i will keep an eye on your website for further developments. I noticed you did not review Trust wallet though it is one of the widely used cryptocurrency wallet. Also can you consider the review of these hardware wallets in the near future?


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December 14, 2019, 10:30:13 AM
 #16

It's so relieving to see my favourite wallet Mycelium in the verifiable section. I think this post will spur cryptocurrency wallets to be more secured in safeguarding the assets of their users. A big thumbs up to all the developers of this project. I would be glsd if you can cinsider looking at HubrisOne wallet, I think that wallet might scam users someday to come.

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December 14, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
 #17

First of all, I still don't understand how can people just keep money on a phone which then then they keep unlocked in the back pocket.
Then, as shown by OP website, what you download is not exactly what you expect, even in the case of reputed publishers (like Electrum, Samourai, ..)
What I want to tell is that crypto wallets on Android should really use hardware wallets if we talk about a bit bigger funds.

May I pick on the "reputed publishers" there? Do you know who they are? If the publisher hides in secrecy, that on its own is a huge red flag for me.

I totally agree on hardware wallets being the way to go but my list involves wallets with a combined download count of 20 million and a hardware wallet still costs over $100. You only invest $100 if your expected loss of not doing so is greater than $100. If you estimate your chance of the wallet losing funds at 5%, you won't use a hardware wallet for anything up to $2000. The exit scammer though may empty a million accounts at once, so here there is a lot of money to be made. Lets spot the black sheep and kick them out.

Now about the website. The initiative is great, but the implementation needs a bit more care for the newbies. In the way it's shown now it's big, it's scary for the newbies and most would not know how to read between the lines the info they need. Maybe those big diff pages should be shown only "by request" by the ones who what to see more than the conclusions (and even those would have a "show more" and a "show all" option?)

Thanks for the feedback! Scary landing page was certainly intended. Boring techy stuff was more the result of us wanting to justify our conclusions. To not show what we tried would look like we didn't try and we don't want to call out wallets on a whim. Maybe we can move the "analysis protocols" into separate documents for the more technically inclined audience?

Perhaps a community rating might be a better solution [I do know that there's already a column for google play ratings but some of them tend to artificially inflate those ratings].

So far nobody has discovered the donate button but I was thinking of adding one per wallet and make it kind of a popularity contest that also pays for the project.

I have gone through the site to check the android wallets but found only 3 wallets to be verified. Can you tell me what does it mean by Non - Verifiable ?



Currently it's even worse: Only three are publicly verifiable which is not the same as actually being verified which would be an expensive and ongoing process.

As nobody cares, it probably doesn't mean much yet, as I refuse to believe that the other 34 are scammers but if people wake up to the idea that verifiability matters, we will see which wallets will actually come forward and make their apps verifiable and which don't.

I only started the project and most wallets don't care cause users don't care yet. I expect many of the non-verifiable ones will slip into the verifiable section if people care.
The thing is if the companies behind it were to hear from the actual voices of their users, maybe they would. I doubt it would happen any time soon because I think they don't want someone making their programs open source, especially with the public. Is this the only reason why you started this project?
I don't understand sentence 2 and 3. Many wallets are open source but not verifiable. Those I hope to win over. The closed source wallets I consider outright evil.

Once people care, wallets that remain non-verifiable turn more into red flags by my estimate. Also I intend to raise the bar once people move towards caring.
I do think that it would help your project if you conducted a mini-survey before visiting your site to see if users "care."
You mean like a pop-up on the landing page?
Do you care?
O Yes
O No
?

I noticed you did not review Trust wallet though it is one of the widely used cryptocurrency wallet.

You mean this wallet?

Also can you consider the review of these hardware wallets in the near future?

I am considering to mark Android wallets that support hardware wallets for a start but hardware wallets on their own are a very different kind of tool than Android apps.

It's so relieving to see my favourite wallet Mycelium in the verifiable section. I think this post will spur cryptocurrency wallets to be more secured in safeguarding the assets of their users. A big thumbs up to all the developers of this project. I would be glsd if you can cinsider looking at HubrisOne wallet, I think that wallet might scam users someday to come.

Honored by your trust but as stated on the detailed analysis of that wallet, contributors to walletscrutiny are also contributors to Mycelium. In fact I introduced verifiability to Mycelium a year or so ago and it's an integral part of our release protocol to have each build be verified by at least a second engineer. No malware on the release manager's machine should be able to sneak in backdoors.

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December 14, 2019, 11:31:29 AM
 #18

Are those Android wallets? If you want, share a link on our reddit.

Yes, they have android wallets. I'm using eidoo on my android phone and exodus on my iPhone but I know that it has a version for Android, too.

Being a wallet dev myself (lead dev Android for Mycelium) being subjective is not cool. I would love to but there is people hating me with a passion because I rated their wallet one star 3 years ago. If I say something about other wallets, it better be solid Wink


But it is definitely cool conversing with the lead dev of Android for Mycelium. Wink

A low rating, if totally objective, should always be welcome as it is a good start for improvement or any necessary adjustment. An objective rating, however low it may be, is always a constructive one. But if it is done out of pure subjectivity, it should be annoying.





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December 14, 2019, 11:35:19 AM
 #19

Are those Android wallets? If you want, share a link on our reddit.

Yes, they have android wallets. I'm using eidoo on my android phone and exodus on my iPhone but I know that it has a version for Android, too.

If you think we should add them, share the links to the Playstore listing, please.

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December 14, 2019, 11:37:35 AM
 #20

Android is too unsecure platform to store wallet there
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