Bitmain & Canaan To Release 5nm chip ASIC Miners in Q1 2020!

[judypug1956]

So a pump to 200 is short  but a pump to 1k gets us to 1.4mil x 5 = 7 mil a day in income .

Now 1k vs 45 dollars is 20x price jump.

but 3 billion to 65 billion  does seem like to big of a move to happen.

An interesting thing is BTC is now back over 8k.

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[mikeywith]

Well, that's my point, remember we're talking about a scenario with no price increase and halving drop.

Mining gears will be worth a lot less then, but not to the extent of keeping industrial mining profitable, think about this way,  home miners have nothing to pay but their power bill, so they in the worst case have 15-30% less expenses than industrial mining, they also have a much better overall risk:reward ratio, if they don't roi, they only lose what they paid for miner, if at any point mining becomes unprofitable, they shut it down and wait for bitcoin price to go higher, wait for the winter to come by or simply do it for the "technology".

Industrial miners don't have all these privileges, so really if we take all of these factors into consideration, we can go to extent of saying home miners are two times more profitable.

therefore,I don't think the equation is (if home miners are making "decent" profits, industrial mining will have to be there)

Because the moment you buy 20 home miners... it makes no sense why you wouldn't buy 4 big ones that are 5 times more powerful, right?

True, 20 miners is not home mining IMO, but it's not always 2 big miners = 4 small miners, because you can easily run say 2000w in your house, but highly unlikely find a wire/mcb that can handle 4kw , so home miners would prefer 4*1000w to 1*4000w.

This is the problem with targeting the so-called home miners, it's a very tight niche.

It is indeed, but once there is no other way around, it has to happen, it's not like they have another choice, you are also ignoring the fact that these home-friendly miners can sometimes perfectly work in industrial scale, this is one reason you don't see 5kw miners, take Whatsminer M20s 68 for an example, it's a 3.3kw miner that many people don't want to deal with due to the electricity infrastructure they have.

Hobby mining, that's something else, and this is why I would love a cheap silent miner that anyone could run just to support the network and that wouldn't make you raise an eyebrow when the bill comes. But that's wishful thinking and I know it.

Sidehack has them, for hobby mining his stuff are perfect.

[philipma1957]

coins beyond 8400.  maybe btc takes off goes over 10k be weeks end.

Carries us all up to the ½ ing and beyond.

It would get a lot of people to buy the newer 5nm gear on longer delays.

[Searing]

coins beyond 8400.  maybe btc takes off goes over 10k be weeks end.

Carries us all up to the ½ ing and beyond.

It would get a lot of people to buy the newer 5nm gear on longer delays.

I don't know, even at 10k my selling crap out of the attic and keeping it all in Bitcoin and HODL mode, still seems more prudent at my view of all this.

[kano]

...
S-9 ran from May 2016 to Sept 2018 before the s11 showed up  that was 29 months.
...

That was an internal problem, not by choice.

[Artemis3]

I understand where you are coming from, but you are missing one key point, which is:

Home-friendly Miners > work just fine for industrial mining farms.
Industrial Miners > do not work for home.

Since efficiency is nearly 100% the same, what would stop Bitmain from reducing the risk of price collapsing prior/after the halving where only home miners might be able to survive the hit?

Let's assume you have an efficient chip and can build a miner that does 20w/th , you can make

3000 watts and get 150th miner

Or

2000 watts and get 100th miner

The latter could be sold to both home and industrial miners, it will of course be a little bit more expensive as in price per terahash since the cost of the frame, fans and wires will be nearly the same for both gears, but the first option limits your potential clients.

I don't know what I don't know, but if Bitmain thinks that there is a 30% chance the following halving will bring industrial mining down, they would really start focusing on home-friendly mining gears.

Their last home friendly miner was the R4, unlike the S7LN this miner used a vertical airflow, where all the industrial miners use horizontal airflow. It does not sit well in a warehouse rack. And if you place it horizontal it will prematurely die due to insufficient airflow and or overstress one of the boards (upper half, or the one above depending). Of course it didn't help some batches had poor soldering...

To them, the home mining market is negligible, which is why they didn't bother anymore.

But at least there is an opportunity for modders or those brave souls that extract the chips and re-purpose the things for the home...

BTW a "home" miner should not go above 1600w @ 115v or 800w @ 230v. 2000w is definitely NOT home friendly

[philipma1957]

Having used a ton of miners. More actually I can tell you the L3+ with voltage mod does 725 watts for 500mh.

It is a beast for home 🏡 mining. Never breaks and can be run on lower fan speeds with no issuse.

The r4 sucked they broke a lot.

The s7ln was good but is not efficient.

A modded s9 with one board is very efficient and can be very quiet doing 3300gh at 300watts

a modded m10 with one board can do 7000gh at 430watts

I have not reached the point of modding the s17pro

but I can tell you at low speed 42000gh and 1500watts stock settings is almost a home miner.

there is under clock firmware that can do 40000gh and 1400 watts.

[kano]

So you think they're gonna start building miners with under 2000W power draw again? Have they ever gone backward in power draw, since the S3?

I asked Canaan about this directly (4th Jan)

Steve's reply was that they wouldn't be making home miners but he hoped they would sell the chips to other manufacturers for that.

You should contact them directly and point out you already do make home miners with S9 chips but want recent chips to produce (better) home miners for others (and drop my name regarding having asked Steve about it)

[HagssFIN]

I think Gekkoscience mining products powered by Canaan chips would be purely awesome!

[sidehack]

I talked to a contact last fall who does good business with Canaan - he runs an I believe multi-megawatt datacenter entirely full of Canaan gear. Told me they would sell chips and even offered design assistance, but the minimum buy-in was $10k, where I was only looking out lay out around $2k to get started with another outfit I'd been talking to for a while. I figured I'd keep Canaan as a backup plan.

[stompix]

Well, I guess this will end the speculations about bitmain focusing on home miners or mining farms:

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020200226232356122Y0FHc2rQ0657

Reference power on wall, Watt    3250±5%

A few years later, S35, 12 000W....

[favebook]

Tho, that is same power usage as my S17+ 76TH/s. So that is quite nice actually... Imagine what 3nm will bring! Even higher speed with same power usage. Also, I bet 150 TH/s or something like that with three power plugs is coming this year as well!

[stompix]

They did advertise it at first for 2900W, from that it's still a 12% increase, at least on paper.

Might not be that much compared to the hash gain but what I was trying to point out is that they went the way of industrial stuff, what goes beyond 3600W around here can't be considered home as probably less than 10% of the homes can accommodate it and after that, you're again limited to around 7.5 kw on the total power draw for your flat.

[philipma1957]

one speed for the unit is just plain stupid.

S17 pro 3 speed choices

S19 pro 1 speed choice  going backwards not forwards.

My s17 pro on low speed  does 36 watts a th

after market firmware you can get 34 maybe 33 watts a th on an s17 pro.

So s19 pro is going to need after market firmware to be worth buying.

I will be getting one of each ASAP

110 + 95 = 205 th at 6500 to 6600 watts

I will retire all 28  s9's  they do 308th at  27,000 to 28,000 watts.

Almost all new units are in the 3100 to 3400 watt range.
the whatsminers all do about 3200 to 3400
the antminers all do about 3200 to 3400

I prefer 2700 for top watts.

[favebook]

They did advertise it at first for 2900W, from that it's still a 12% increase, at least on paper.

Might not be that much compared to the hash gain but what I was trying to point out is that they went the way of industrial stuff, what goes beyond 3600W around here can't be considered home as probably less than 10% of the homes can accommodate it and after that, you're again limited to around 7.5 kw on the total power draw for your flat.

Yeah yeah, that is true, if their S19 Pro is same as their S17+, then it will pull about 300-400W more than advertised. However, I think it will not as it is a "Pro" version, and it might be a little bit more accurate than those ultra overclocked S17 (talking about their S17+).

Also, yeah, there was a thread which was talking about Bitmain leaving home miners and focusing on big industrial miners, and I've said it a few times already and I will say it again... Every year it is going to get worse and worse with Bitmain (home mining has been dying for quite some time); 12kW per miner (as you said) is probably unrealistic in next 3-5 years, but I can easily see 5.5kW miner in that same time period. However, as more electricity comes in, there will be one much larger problem... HEAT!

If S17+ are using 3.5kW and have 4 "good" fans, imagine what will we need for 5.5kW.

[philipma1957]

Well it will make business for aftermarket firmware  you simply need to be able to dial gear back some times.

I so like the s17 pro  with 3 speed settings  and huge watt difference 1400/1500 on low vs 2700/2800 on high.

My Clifton farm is in an industrial area and I would consider it to be an industrial farm.  I would rather have all s17 pros over this unit if this is a one speed unit.

we use outside air.  so in the summer the air coming in is as high as 100f most often it is 90f intake in the summer.

These 1 speed units may all fail in the summer.

[favebook]

Yeah, that is understandable. If I were to start a big farm right now, I would rather have multiple speeds for a long run. However, a good pricing (of single speed miners) could change my mind.

[philipma1957]

we have

1 s15
1 s17
15 s17 pro

they are all nice choice of speeds when and if needed.