[2019-12-18] Two more bitcoin firms shutdown over impending EU money-laundering

[hv_]

Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.

Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere

Told ya

[1714607414]

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[squatter]

I think there can be no exceptions, the laws will apply to anyone doing business in the European Union. There are three options, adjusting to new laws, terminating your business, or moving to another country. Although running away from the law only delays the inevitable, as there are fewer and fewer locations to work in the financial sector without KYC.

My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.

On one hand this is stupid because if they aren't allowing people to exchange coins to fiat money they shouldn't undergo AML regulations because no laundering can take place.

Laundering just means disguising the source of illicit proceeds. Swapping them for different currencies without revealing your identity seems like a fine way to do that.

[bbc.reporter]

Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.

Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere

Told ya

What does it mean to scale the original transparent bitcoin industrial way? How would it make bitcoin avoid the regulations?

[hv_]

Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.

Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere

Told ya

What does it mean to scale the original transparent bitcoin industrial way? How would it make bitcoin avoid the regulations?

Not avoid but stay seamless and compliant.

You know what 'purpose' means in legal terms?

Dont fuck up open financial relevant protocols.

[figmentofmyass]

Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.

Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere

Told ya

i assume you're referring to the privacy features of the lightning network, or maybe the future integration of schnorr signatures?

bitcoin and BSV are both getting regulated to hell regardless of these privacy features, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. regulations like the 5th AML directive capture all cryptocurrencies under the same umbrella. BSV exchanges and custodial wallets are screwed just the same as everyone else.

[bbc.reporter]

@figmentofmyass. I think that hv_ might be drunk on a christmas party hehehe. I am shaking my head while reading his reply to me 5 times.

[codegnome]

crypto firms who want to obey regulations will sooner or later have to meet such fate. with rise in popularity of bitcoin we will see more such strict regulations coming into place. regulations and crypto are two enemies. lets see who wins

A notice on the Simplecoin website reads that it is closing down on Jan. 1 because the new rules will require the firm to implement several anti-money laundering (AML) know-your-customer (KYC) requirements and it is against those to protect users' privacy.
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/50613/two-more-crypto-firms-shutting-down-over-impending-eu-money-laundering-rules

[hv_]

Welcome to the financial world. The most (over) regulated sector across the planet.

Scale the original transparent Bitcoin industrial way or get regulated into nowhere

Told ya

i assume you're referring to the privacy features of the lightning network, or maybe the future integration of schnorr signatures?

bitcoin and BSV are both getting regulated to hell regardless of these privacy features, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. regulations like the 5th AML directive capture all cryptocurrencies under the same umbrella. BSV exchanges and custodial wallets are screwed just the same as everyone else.

There is a real diff in terms of purpose and governance / roadmap and compliance help on due dilligence tasks. Keep it easy simple stupid.
KISS

That makes a huge difference where I see only one solution winning that race.

https://thecurrencyanalytics.com/8898/bitcoin-sv-shows-potential-to-restore-the-original-version-of-bitcoin-sydney-ifergan/

[darkangel11]

On one hand this is stupid because if they aren't allowing people to exchange coins to fiat money they shouldn't undergo AML regulations because no laundering can take place.

Laundering just means disguising the source of illicit proceeds. Swapping them for different currencies without revealing your identity seems like a fine way to do that.

That is if you consider cryptocurrencies to be money. If I get wow gold by hacking someone's account and not disclose what I did is it going to be money laundering? I'd say no because wow gold is not money. And it's no different from some shitcoin because you can sell wow gold and swap it into fiat if you really want. Maybe when you do that it becomes money laundering. To me it's all semantics.
The US gov would like to first make the law ambiguous enough so it can be interpreted in at least 10 different ways and then charge people for breaking it.

[malevolent]

My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.

Already has been the case for quite a while now, coins from mixers, coinjoin, wasabi, gambling sites or a dnm can trigger an account freeze.

However, there are some minimum amounts that will be allowed under the new directive (50-150 EUR), so you may still be able to trade small amounts without KYC.

As long as transaction fees are low, that is, or even that will stop making sense.

[squatter]

My primary concern with platforms registering in the Seychelles and similar jurisdictions so they can continue avoiding AML/KYC is that the industry is creating a two-tiered system. Is it possible that the whitelisted exchanges -- the Coinbases, Geminis, and Bitstamps -- will begin restricting deposits from non-compliant platforms? That creates huge fungibility issues.

Already has been the case for quite a while now, coins from mixers, coinjoin, wasabi, gambling sites or a dnm can trigger an account freeze.

I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.

[malevolent]

I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.

Binance has frozen some coins sent from Wex, other than that I wouldn't be surprised if some exchanges, say, Bitstamp viewed a user who would send coins from Binance with more suspicion, they just wouldn't necessarily tell anyone about it.

[squatter]

I'm talking about huge exchanges like BitMEX and Poloniex, not casinos and darknet markets. I don't believe we've ever seen exchanges -- who generally have some AML policy in place -- restricted in that way.

Binance has frozen some coins sent from Wex, other than that I wouldn't be surprised if some exchanges, say, Bitstamp viewed a user who would send coins from Binance with more suspicion, they just wouldn't necessarily tell anyone about it.

That Binance/Wex situation was different. Customers were alleging that coins deposited to Binance (from Wex's cold wallets) were stolen from them, so Binance temporarily froze the associated accounts and asked for those customers to file police reports. They have a whole policy for dealing with these types of allegations.

The situation I'm concerned about is more like Binance freezing/investigating all accounts receiving any deposits from Wex -- or BitMEX, Poloniex, etc.

[Getmon]

AML is the foremost reason for KYC. And this is enforced by the government without compromise. It effectively kills the anonymous factor of exchanges. I hope there is still a BTC or two minimum for unverified accounts. This is the EU saying you need to bend or you face the risk of breaking.