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Author Topic: trezor 12 or 24 word recovery  (Read 167 times)
vieveda
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November 28, 2019, 08:12:54 PM
 #1

My trezor T never had the option to chose between 12 or 24 word revovery seed. Got started with a 12 word seed and tried it out, I made some transactions even to a passphrase wallet. How do I create a new 24 word seed? Do I need to remove my wallet and create a new?

I guess there isn't any other solution with my current funds then send it away from my 12 word wallet (if I will create a new 24 word wallet)?

By the way, isn't 12 word enough? Especially if I use a passphrase..
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November 28, 2019, 08:22:01 PM
 #2

My trezor T never had the option to chose between 12 or 24 word revovery seed. Got started with a 12 word seed and tried it out, I made some transactions even to a passphrase wallet. How do I create a new 24 word seed? Do I need to remove my wallet and create a new?

I guess there isn't any other solution with my current funds then send it away from my 12 word wallet (if I will create a new 24 word wallet)?

By the way, isn't 12 word enough? Especially if I use a passphrase..
I have never used trezor but here I try with my understanding.
Why do you need a 24 seed passphrase? 12 words one is enough. If you really want the 24 words passphrase then it will create a new wallet and I think you will basically start with a new wallet in the same trezor. What you will do is resetting.

Save the current 12 words seed somewhere safe. You can always restore your current wallet with these words. And then play with your trezor however you want.


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November 28, 2019, 08:22:09 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (2)
 #3

My trezor T never had the option to chose between 12 or 24 word revovery seed. Got started with a 12 word seed and tried it out, I made some transactions even to a passphrase wallet. How do I create a new 24 word seed? Do I need to remove my wallet and create a new?

Trezor T does not allow users to generate 18 and 24 word recovery seeds in an easy way. You can either use a third-party software (example) to generate a new recovery seed on a separate, air-gapped machine or you can use trezorctl to force the device to generate 12, 18 or 24 word seed. Here you can learn how to do it. If you do the latter then the seed won't be exposed to your computer. Let me know here if you need any help.

I guess there isn't any other solution with my current funds then send it away from my 12 word wallet (if I will create a new 24 word wallet)?

Yes, you will have to send your coins.

By the way, isn't 12 word enough? Especially if I use a passphrase..

It is. Read the last paragraph.

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November 28, 2019, 08:28:41 PM
 #4

My trezor T never had the option to chose between 12 or 24 word revovery seed. Got started with a 12 word seed and tried it out, I made some transactions even to a passphrase wallet. How do I create a new 24 word seed? Do I need to remove my wallet and create a new?

I guess there isn't any other solution with my current funds then send it away from my 12 word wallet?

By the way, isn't 12 word enough? Especially if I use a passphrase..

There's nothing wrong with a 12-word seed phrase.  The odds of someone cracking a 12-word Bip39 phrase are infinitesimally small.  Having said that, I have a 24-word phrase for my wallets.

The easiest, most secure way of generating a 24-word phrase for your Trezor T is to initiate it with the Electrum client.  Don't download Electrum from anywhere other than this link:  https://electrum.org/#download

You'll have to delete the current wallet before you initialize with Electrum, and make sure it has the latest firmware.

Another option is use the iancoleman Bip39 tool to create a 24-word phrase, but only do this if you have an air-gapped computer to use.

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November 29, 2019, 03:16:31 AM
 #5

By the way, isn't 12 word enough? Especially if I use a passphrase..
Don't sweat it, it's enough. There's no single instance of a bruteforced 12-word mnemonic.
And the passphrase is a huge security boost, because if ever your seed phrase got compromised, the hacker will only be able restore a different set of addresses unless he also knows your passphrase.

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December 24, 2019, 05:20:49 AM
 #6

Okay I have a sealed  Trezor T  and some older Trezor 1 models.

I like the Trezor 1 so I gave  a trezor t a shot.  I was debating whether to use it due to the 12 vs 24 word question answered here.

Now that the topic is risen and looks to be correctly answered,

My follow up question is how long should I make the password or passphrase?

For instance would this be a Good one.

$Fsve≠†•H gzyAftp58 145GgcnD4 2104ƒ∫ß^*

It Is 36 characters  picked on 12 different pc's by 12 different randomizer programs

It is extreme  or at least I think it is.  But Honest How extreme should I be?  When I add the passphrase

We know 12345  would be a poor pass phrase

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 24, 2019, 05:33:44 AM
Merited by philipma1957 (1)
 #7

†•ƒ∫ß

you might want to choose a passphrase that you can easily enter using your keyboard. these symbols here don't exist on keyboard as a key, they require either using a symbol table tool or pressing alt+numbers for example.
as for the length, since this passphrase is used as the salt of PBKDF2 and RFC8018 recommends at least 8 bytes length having 8 characters should be the minimum.

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December 24, 2019, 05:41:20 AM
Merited by philipma1957 (1)
 #8

My follow up question is how long should I make the password or passphrase?

For instance would this be a Good one.

$Fsve≠†•H gzyAftp58 145GgcnD4 2104ƒ∫ß^*

It Is 36 characters  picked on 12 different pc's by 12 different randomizer programs
Some aren't included in ASCII & extended ASCII characters... IDK if it's possible to use that as a passphrase for Trezor.
It will only accept ASCII as stated here: Passphrase - Trezor Wiki.

12+ Random case characters with numerics and punctuation is enough IMO.

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December 24, 2019, 02:24:10 PM
 #9

Thanks for clarification on secondary pass phrase.

12 letters and numbers punctaution at random should be good enough.


so

1234567890

!@#$%^&*()_+{}[];:"'<,>.??

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
abcdefghijklmnpopqrstuvwxyz



88 things to pick from above

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December 25, 2019, 08:07:47 AM
 #10

An empty space is a valid character, as far as I know, but for some reason I am reluctant to use it. Maybe get rid of the empty spaces to avoid confusion later on. In a few years you might forget that there is an empty space in the passphrase or not highlight it enough when writing down your passphrase.   

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December 25, 2019, 01:36:29 PM
 #11

It is extreme  or at least I think it is.  But Honest How extreme should I be?  When I add the passphrase

Since the passphrase is 'just' an additional layer and not the only thing which secures your wallet, it doesn't have to be too secure.
However, whenever choosing a password remember that length beats complexity.

Instead of adding those non-standard characters which are very error prone, especially since they can't be entered using a keyboard, just add a few more characters while not using such characters or not even special characters and your password will be more secure than a very complex - but a few chars shorter - one.

The overall strength needed for your password depends on your threat model.
If no person will ever be with your hardware wallet for more than a few minutes and you can be sure that you will always detect whether your device got stolen within a short timeframe with the ability to recover your funds using a backup, it doesn't have to bee too strong.
If - on the other hand - it always will take a few months or even longer until you realize that your HW got stolen or to be able to recover your funds using a backup, i'd rather use a strong password instead of a semi-strong one.

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December 29, 2019, 10:14:49 PM
 #12

For a passphrase, 5 words randomly chosen from a huge word list are going to be more than enough, no need to over-complicate with exotic characters IMHO.

1.5M words (not all of them are English though) https://www.keithv.com/software/wlist/

650k words https://packages.debian.org/sid/text/wamerican-insane

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December 30, 2019, 12:49:59 AM
 #13

Just want to ask, anyone here tried to use 12 words recovery by default on trezor hardware wallets?
Because for what I remember on my Trezor One hardware wallet is by default for initiating/creating the wallet is on 24 words recovery by default.

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December 30, 2019, 12:55:41 AM
 #14

Just want to ask, anyone here tried to use 12 words recovery by default on trezor hardware wallets?

Trezor T generates 12 word seed by default. If you want to generate a 12 or 18 word seed on your Trezor One then you have to use trezorctl and follow these instructions.

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December 30, 2019, 03:07:25 AM
 #15

Just want to ask, anyone here tried to use 12 words recovery by default on trezor hardware wallets?
Trezor T generates 12 word seed by default. If you want to generate a 12 or 18 word seed on your Trezor One then you have to use trezorctl and follow these instructions.
Oh, that's cool, thanks for that. It seems not so friendly work for non-techy hodlers. I'm comfortable and much safer now with my 24words recovery.

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