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Author Topic: Forum policy regarding Faketoshi  (Read 668 times)
DooMAD
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January 02, 2020, 07:11:59 PM
Last edit: January 02, 2020, 07:36:49 PM by DooMAD
Merited by LoyceV (2), TMAN (2), gmaxwell (1), qwk (1), JayJuanGee (1), ETFbitcoin (1), hatshepsut93 (1), o_e_l_e_o (1), Husna QA (1), nullius (1)
 #1

I'd like to put forth a few arguments to present the case that it's high time for all topics about Craig Scammer Wright to be moved to the Altcoins section [//EDIT: Or some other, more appropriate, section] on sight.  

  • First and foremost, he doesn't deserve the attention we give him
  • Almost all threads about Faketoshi devolve into people talking about forked chains and other altcoins anyway
  • Even when he claims to be talking about Bitcoin, every insane thing Faketoshi says is deliberately calculated to attract attention towards his fork
  • Faketoshi has absolutely no official connection to Bitcoin itself, but the more we talk about him, the more it appears as though he's somehow important or relevant
  • It sets the tone that, as a community, we want to distance ourselves from the constant, sordid three-ring-circus/pantomime/freak-show he embodies
  • We shouldn't be providing a platform for con-artists to further their fraudulent agendas, it's irresponsible

It's time to draw a line under this and move on.  Feel free to add more arguments, or dispute or critique the ones I've laid out.  If someone responds with an argument I like, I'll add it to the list.

Topic Rules:  Absolutely NO discussion of forked chains or altcoins here, please




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January 02, 2020, 07:31:03 PM
 #2

I get your point, and understand your outrage.  But, I don't think that all the threads about CSW would be on topic if they were moved to the altcoin board.  Some are specific to reputation, and most are better kept in the scam accusations board.  Because BSV is a scam, and CSW is a lying POS scammer.

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January 02, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
Merited by gmaxwell (1)
 #3

I don't think we should hide topics about CSW or debunking all of his idiotic claims. While it is obvious for most, Craig (and the people supporting him) can do a great job of confusing newcomers. I agree that he doesn't deserve the attention but people should be protected against his lies until he goes to jail.

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January 02, 2020, 07:38:26 PM
 #4

I don't think that all the threads about CSW would be on topic if they were moved to the altcoin board.  Some are specific to reputation, and most are better kept in the scam accusations board

That's a fair point, OP edited to reflect that.  The Altcoins sub shouldn't be used as a dumping ground for garbage, even if it often feels like one.   Cheesy

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January 02, 2020, 07:47:14 PM
Merited by malevolent (2), hilariousetc (2)
 #5

I assure you not many users over in the Altcoin section want to see his garbage either Cheesy

I don't usually read much of the discussion about him, but if it applies solely to altcoin, and doesn't have any relation to Bitcoin at all then you can report it, and it'll likely be moved. As for discussion relating to Bitcoin as long as its quality discussion then I don't think censorship is the right answer.

Some are specific to reputation, and most are better kept in the scam accusations board.  Because BSV is a scam, and CSW is a lying POS scammer.
I'd like to see a scam accusation section board within the Altcoin section. I think it would be beneficial as the current setup is a little confusing to see Bitcoin, and altcoin sections separated in most sections, but Scam accusations, and reputation.

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January 02, 2020, 07:47:55 PM
 #6

Some people find his trolling amusing. Especially when he threatened to destroy bitcoin with one single move which never happened....
Pathetic piece of clown accompanied by a pedo-guy who should be jailed as well.

I agree that we should stop cuddling his mind-twisted ego, and just remain silent.

Never argue with an idiot. People watching (newbies in our case) won't be able to tell the difference.

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January 02, 2020, 09:02:34 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #7

As with most things I'd say take them on a case by case basis. If they're mostly about alts or specifically bitcoin cash then they should be in the alt coin section but if they're just repeating the same things and offer nothing new in terms of discussion or evidence then they're redundant and should just be trashed. There's already enough threads of who is satoshi and is craig wright really satoshi and they usually get trashed and so should any others unless they're claiming something new or fresh.

Some people find his trolling amusing.

It might be funny if he was trolling, but he's not. He's deadly serious and has to be to try commit his various frauds. He's in too deep to just come out now and say otherwise and doing so would just open him up to a lot of legal trouble (as if he wasn't in enough already).

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January 02, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
 #8

Okay so like how Welsh said, censorship might not be the way, but a suggestion if it wasn't obvious enough, tag the faketoshi guys. Its obviously quite sketchy and manipulative trying to delusionize people into believing in things that are made up by an absolute horse fucker of a nincompoop. Create flags, and start topics, and common retaliation and drama will follow, and soon they will disappear. As for the discussions, I am pretty sure mods will handle it calmingly well, they'll be trashed, or moved. You'll just get used to it, tbh, it will be like "mErIt sYsTeM sUcKs" all over again, except in different boards, and it will be Craig dumbshit Wright, and poor people's altcoins(forked crappy coins).

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January 03, 2020, 01:42:40 AM
Merited by JollyGood (1)
 #9

Though I love him dearly for his sheer ludicrousness I hereby vow to never contribute to another new thread about him ever again. I will be forced to dip into the scam accusation one occasionally as it's just too much fun. That's where he should remain, that and forever being the queen of our hearts.

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January 03, 2020, 04:48:41 PM
Merited by nullius (20), suchmoon (7), Foxpup (4), LoyceV (4), nutildah (3), malevolent (2), bitmover (2), qwk (1), JayJuanGee (1), mindrust (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #10

On one hand I agree that threads related to him tend heavily to off-topic.

On the other hand, a big part of the reason that he's caused so much disruption (and he truly has)-- is because so many bitcoiners took one look at him, saw how transparently fake he was, and decided it was best to ignore him.  The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  And that is what has happened here--

It's easy for him to spin the people who do speak out against his fraud as somehow being involved with some kind of personal play against him because as a community we haven't stood united against his fraud.  Instead, far too many have just responded like "Good thing I'm not ignorant enough to fall for that, better stay away so I don't get targeted with drama too."

In the future we're going to see more crap like him threatening any business that accepts Bitcoin with patent litigation, to which the common response will be "damn, this bitcoin stuff isn't worth the trouble" from most parties who's business isn't primarily about Bitcoin.  How could you expect otherwise when your response to wright is "damn, this wright stuff isn't worth the trouble"?

Because his lies are so prolific and layered in every one of these threads there are some newer bitcoiners that end up being corrected and put on a more sensible path.  It isn't always a question of people believing him outright, often its falling for one of his lesser lies like the claim that he's an "og bitcoin investor" or that kleiman had something to do with Bitcoin's creation.

The Wright threads also make it really easy to identify many idiots and shills.  I think we're all made better off by having access to such a quick classifier of the character of our fellow posters.

If someone broke into your house and was stealing stuff-- you wouldn't just say 'that thief doesn't deserve our attention' and ignore them.  We shouldn't hesitate to defend Bitcoin and the community surrounding it.

People do, for the most part, ignore people that caused trouble in the past but aren't anymore. You hear about wright because his scams are ongoing and still growing.

Now-- if you want to argue that various threads aren't very effective and that the community could do better?  I couldn't agree more.
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January 03, 2020, 11:33:56 PM
 #11

If you see topics about altcoins or about CSW in wrong sections, report them so that they're moved, or post here if they aren't being moved and you think they should.

In the future we're going to see more crap like him threatening any business that accepts Bitcoin with patent litigation, to which the common response will be "damn, this bitcoin stuff isn't worth the trouble" from most parties who's business isn't primarily about Bitcoin.  How could you expect otherwise when your response to wright is "damn, this wright stuff isn't worth the trouble"?

As obvious as it should appear to be (with nChain/CSW applying for hundreds of cryptocurrency-related patents) I had never actually taken that into consideration. Many businesses, especially smaller ones may react just like that.

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January 04, 2020, 12:39:26 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 07:23:48 PM by MagicByt3
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #12

While censorship is not something I would vote for I do think this situation requires more of a fight back from the bitcoin community, my fear is that the Nchain and BSV sockpuppets are in full attack mode against not only bitcoin but many of the outstanding people in the space.

 I have found many new BSV supporters taking to Youtube to slate and attempt to discredit some of the long term bitcoin supports..

Some of the people who have been attacked in public are Andreas Antonopoulos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQvJkATZVE
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqVuMDIfxjtooRKCS-G0hg

You only need to look at this guy to know he's a shill probably being paid to output this content.

Now while I do say everyone has the right to chose to use what every they see fit what I don't think is right is the fact that not 1 but 2 projects now have taken the bitcoin name and attempted to use it to manipulate users.

There must be some way we can protect  the Bitcoin name from abuse like this and I think the community should be looking into ways to protect bitcoin thru the relative channels.  

Furthermore we need more education for new users and businesses to help protect them from this toxic bunch of people.

While the love for bitcoin is still strong and those who understand and have been "around the block" for some time understand what is going on but for the new users or company's out there looking at us from the outside.. Things may not look so peachy.

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January 04, 2020, 06:45:15 AM
 #13

Faketoshi is Bitcoin's biggest enemy and we should be talking about the enemies of bitcoin core,even in the Bitcoin discussion forum.Ignoring him completely simply won't work in the long term.
Newcomers in the forum have to be aware about Wright,or they will think this guy has something to do with bitcoin.

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January 04, 2020, 10:24:15 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #14

Threads about BSV should be moved to altcoins. This is blatantly obvious - BSV is not bitcoin.

Threads about CSW are more tricky. I am not in favor of censorship (regardless of how stupid CSW's lies are). The most recent thread - Craig Wright claims , today will be the last day for Bitcoins - actually probably does belong in bitcoin discussion, since it is discussing bitcoin and not BSV. I do agree with DooMAD that it is obvious that threads like this, although talking about bitcoin, are designed solely to drum up interest in BSV. However, I will also concede that given this thread is about a recent event/new "claim", although again obvious nonsense, shouldn't be trashed.

There are other threads, however, which I think should be trashed. Threads like Craig Wright: "BTC is not Bitcoin" and How an interviewer made Craig Wright sweat about the question if he's Satoshi!. These threads are low value and uninteresting. They are bringing no new information which hasn't been discussed 100 times before, namely CSW doesn't like bitcoin and claims to be Satoshi. At the very least, they should be moved to Off Topic since they are discussing CSW and not bitcoin.

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January 05, 2020, 09:00:14 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 02:13:11 AM by nullius
Merited by qwk (1)
 #15

[Quick edit:  Please see topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215128.0

That was motivated by what I took to be gmaxwell’s suggestion of some better community organizing.  I made some good talking points:  A new angle that will resonate with people, written up in short, easy-English sentences (not like this post).  A simple logical argument, wrapped up in thick layers of emotional appeal delivered with visual impact (as I say in this post, below).  That is my strength, but I know my weakness:  I am not good at spreading the word far and wide.  Please help spread the word, for Anastasia and for Satoshi!]



Not oft does an Internet forum post instantly persuade me on a very deep level that I was dangerously wrong on an issue about which I had a strong opinion.  That happened here.

Since I found gmaxwell’s post, I have spent much of the past two days examining and rethinking this issue.  WIP.  At logically divergent points, this post will express my intentions for related future work in /* C-style comments */.

The following is primarily addressed to the people who have already posted in this thread.  It is long, complicated, and also, not as well-organized as I would like /* WIP */.  It is not the style that I would use in arguing with BSV shills, for reasons that you will see presently.

On the other hand, a big part of the reason that he's caused so much disruption (and he truly has)-- is because so many bitcoiners took one look at him, saw how transparently fake he was, and decided it was best to ignore him.

BSV happened when I was gone.  For the past few days, I have noticed the spew of Craig Wright/BSV threads; and I have been deliberately ignoring them.  I think it may help others if I introspectively analyze why (though I will sharply limit the analysis at certain points, to avoid giving tips to BSV shills).  A key point is an essential difference between BCH propaganda and BSV propaganda.

A few years ago, much of the most popularly repeated BCH propaganda was based on half-truths.  We are taught as children that the most dangerous lie is a half-truth, for the untrue half is the poison made plausible by the true half.  This is peculiarly effective when the true part is an oversimplified fact ripped out of context, and the false part cannot be understood without significant technical knowledge.  And much of the other BCH propaganda was based on twisting the semantics of technical jargon; when evaluating such propaganda or arguing against it, even an expert can be tripped up if he is not sufficiently careful, almost obsessively careful with the precise meanings of words.

E.g.:  “Anyone can spend” (true: name of an opcode; false: misrepresenting how validation actually works on the P2P network).  “Removes signatures” (true: signatures are removed from the part of the transaction hashed for the txid; false: signatures are removed entirely—actually, they are just moved to the witness data—and there is here another compound half-truth that I will omit for brevity).  Characterizing Segwit as a type of extension block or block extension (blurring of concepts, and semantic confusion of unrelated concepts).

Such lies are subtle.  They alarm intelligent people who fully understand them, because they look like the types of lies that could fool intelligent non-experts.*  By comparison, BSV/Faketoshi yelling looks stupid and clownish.  Yes, you are Satoshi—and I’m the Queen of England!  For evidence-minded people, wildly implausible claims based on zero evidence are much easier to dismiss than plausible, subtly false claims.  And Craig Wright’s claims are so implausible that when Gavin bought them on the basis of obviously fake “evidence” (or at least said he did, for whatever motive), the substantial result was not only to instantly destroy Gavin’s credibility, but to make of him a laughingstock.

(* Incidentally, I understand Segwit much better because the Btash propaganda inadvertently pushed me to study it.  The Btashers confused me, and I thought that maybe they were right.  I wanted to know the truth!  So I did the logical thing, and studied what Segwit actually does.  After many hours of examining both primary sources (BIP 141, source code) and secondary sources (long Internet arguments—including in /r/btc, not only Core-friendly venues), I concluded that Segwit is awesome, Pieter Wuille is a genius, and Bcashers are liars.  Here’s to freedom of speech and independence of opinion!)

Since that time, ignoring Craig Wright has become a habit.  And that habit is reinforced when one notices that all he seems to have in his favour is a knack for getting attention.  Attention, surely, is the last thing that any sane person wants to give him.  Indeed, I cursed under my breath when I saw intelligent, respectable people arguing in BSV threads:  Why are you feeding into that?  It is beneath contempt!  Naturally, my such reactions strictly deterred me from getting involved.  I would not want anybody to question my motives for bumping BSV shill threads; and I would no more waste my time with “Craig Wright is Satoshi!!11” claims than argue in the notorious Flat Earth megathread.

Observe that I am not one to be shy of controversy.  I did not avoid BSV threads from a desire to avoid “drama”.  I simply saw it as pointless, unimportant drama that could only gain importance if I deigned to notice it.  That was an egregious error in judgment.

Whereas BSV propaganda is actually more effective than Bcash propaganda, because contra what you were told as a child, a half-truth isn’t the worst lie:  A Big Lie is.*  For those not inclined to cool, objective examination of evidence, a wildly implausible claim is more plausible, because it is wildly implausible:  If it’s wildly implausible, then nobody would dare to fabricate it, so it must be true—Q.E.D.  As an implicit feeling and not an explicit process of ratiocination, that is just how human psychology works:  Extraordinary claims are their own evidence.

(* Before anyone calls Godwin on me:  Godwin is hereby inapplicable, because in fact, Hitler didn’t actually advocate using the Big Lie; he accused a Jewish conspiracy of using the Big Lie, which he condemned in no uncertain terms.  My discussion of an age-old flaw in human nature is not relevant to irrelevant history.  Anyway, I would not do the gross injustice of equating BSV shills to Hitler.)

Worse, calling out a Big Lie for what it is can backfire:  You thereby underscore the point that a statement would be so outrageous if untrue, nobody would dare to lie about it.  And logical argumentation will not work, because the essential “argument” is emotional.  E.g., if you state your own standard:  “I would believe a Satoshi claimant who met criteria, A, B, and C; Craig Wright meets none of those criteria,” it won’t help.  It won’t help, because Satoshi says so!  (Does that not make sense?  None of this makes sense:  Human nature is insensible.)

Moreover, BSV manages emotional appeal in subtle ways that the typical nerd totally fails to comprehend.  For example, look at this post.  The headline content, the primary content, the only real content is photographic.  No meticulously footnoted statements of verifiable facts:  A visual.  Craig Wright is presented looking movie-handsome (most people have low standards), strong, confident.  He is wearing a suit (not very well, but hoi polloi don’t know the difference).  He is holding a purported “diploma”, i.e. an appeal to authority.  And he is surrounded by a retinue of suit-wearing men, i.e. social proof.  (Hoi polloi are not sufficiently insightful to read the vulture-faces.)

I think that many readers are now sneering at me—no really, that is what is important!  If you’re sneering at me over what I just said, it means that you do not understand how propaganda works in real life.  And if you think this discussion is beneath your principles, then you are effectively renouncing the world to the Craig Wrights of the world so that you can live in an idealistic fantasy.

(It is at this juncture that I hope the Winklevi are real Bitcoiners in their hearts of hearts.  They look a thousand times sharper than Craig Wright:  To the 1% who can tell the difference, they wear their suits like rich men, not like dolled-up rubes running a scam.)

Craig Wright looks like a leader (to those whose idea of “leadership” is informed by the mass-media and modern-day democratic political systems).  But that is not the biggest issue.  Until gmaxwell’s post made me revisit the issue, I did not realize what Craig Wright had done.

He has assumed the name of Satoshi, and thus given Satoshi a face.  A human face is important; consider why Facebook now has 2×10^9 users.  Nature abhors a vacuum.  Against that, Bitcoin has a mysterious, quasi-mystical ghost called Satoshi, some anonymous cypherpunks, facts, logic, coding skills, and a bunch of nerds who probably don’t wear sharp suits.

The human need for a human face is present even in most Bitcoiners who would never fall for Faketoshi.  Vide the continued use of Dorian Nakamoto’s image, mostly by people who openly state that Dorian is not Satoshi.  That was always a mistake (plus just being wrong).  It does illustrate the power of the terrible vacuum left by a faceless founder.

In brief, the foregoing discussion suggests the following actions:

  • Add emotional appeal.  Don’t give up on logical, factual arguments (though you may sometimes need to simplify them, to avoid losing the audience).  Add appeals to emotion in your arguments.  If that feels dirty to you, then I am very sorry:  In real life, you need to deal with human psychology.
  • Non-anonymous Bitcoiners should refine their human image.  If your photo is already available online, then you have nothing to lose by making yourself look good.  Not what you think looks good, but good according to the social conventions of people who are impressed by Craig Wright’s suit.  If you have naturally photogenic qualities (as judged by usefulness to a good cause, not by your ego), then get a professional haircuit (long or short—get it neatened), get a pro-quality photo of yourself wearing a good suit, and use that as your profile photo or avatar on Github, on Gravatar, and on this forum.  If you lack those qualities, then don’t:  Play to your own strengths, and avoid your own weaknesses.  (And if your feelings are hurt by my suggestions, none of this post is for you.)
  • /* XXX TODO:  Create and link here a topic expanding on what Bitcoiners can do as a counterstroke against the emotionally-evocative, image-oriented aspects of BSV propaganda. */

In the future we're going to see more crap like him threatening any business that accepts Bitcoin with patent litigation, to which the common response will be "damn, this bitcoin stuff isn't worth the trouble" from most parties who's business isn't primarily about Bitcoin.  How could you expect otherwise when your response to wright is "damn, this wright stuff isn't worth the trouble"?

This is extremely worrisome, and I was insufficiently aware of the issue due to ignoring Craig Wright.  A typical business owner will avoid like plague anything whatsoever that has hanging over it the clouds of IP litigation that could destroy the business.

Compare:  BSD Unix was treated as radioactive by businesses due IP litigation and threats thereof, at just the time when Linus first released Linux.  By the time the lawsuit was over, it was too late:  Linux took over the world.  (The principal differences being that Linus had nothing to do with the lawsuit; it was just a coincidence.... and that was copyright; patent suits are even worse, i.e. more catastrophically expensive.)

Counteracting that type of threat will require a well-financed, organized response by non-anonymous parties who have excellent lawyers.  Here is one immediate idea for the forum:  Document prior art that can be used by lawyers to attack the patents directly, wrecking the patent troll’s whole business model.  It worked for Cloudflare (and regardless of my general opinion of Cloudflare, it does not alter the point that they, non-cypherpunks with their non-cypherpunk lawyers, deployed an innovative strategy against a patent troll).  If someone is already doing that, I duly apologize for having been sleeping on a mountaintop in a circle of fire for the past twenty months; please drop me a link.  Any other practical ideas?



It isn't always a question of people believing him outright, often its falling for one of his lesser lies like the claim that he's an "og bitcoin investor" or that kleiman had something to do with Bitcoin's creation.

The ancient principle that “falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus” needs a signature ad (q.v.).



If someone broke into your house and was stealing stuff-- you wouldn't just say 'that thief doesn't deserve our attention' and ignore them.  We shouldn't hesitate to defend Bitcoin and the community surrounding it.

The analogy is inadmissible:  You wouldn’t debate the thief—especially not if he started by announcing that it is his house and his stuff, and you are the thief violating his “vision” of what he wants done with his stuff.  You would not dignify that with a verbal reply!  Instead, you would reply with violent force—either directly, or by proxy with recourse to the State (“call the cops”).

In theory, this is the proper use of IP laws.  If you invent an innovative technology and you name it “Bitcoin”, then you patent any patentable methods used by your invention, enforce a trademark over the good name of Bitcoin®, and claim copyright over the source code.  The State promises to enforce your monopolies on these things.  Their ultimate means of enforcement is that they can and will kick doors down.  Usually in IP lawsuits, it does not get that far, because people obey court orders to avoid getting their doors kicked down.

Perhaps the analogy is sound after all!  The problem is that we are living in a house that has no defence against thieves, other than for us to say, “Please let us explain in logical terms why the thief is wrong.”  And the thief can even steal the identity of the house’s founder.  (Action tip:  Refer to “identity thief Craig Wright” and his identity theft, because that is exactly what it is by definition—and “identity theft” is a hot buzzword with emotional appeal.)

Satoshi did it the cypherpunk way.  IP laws are neither enforceable against strongly anonymous parties, nor enforceable by strongly anonymous parties.  “Cypherpunks write code”, then release it from behind Tor whilst ignoring the State.  That is what Satoshi did; and as a result, Bitcoin never even had an identifiable owner to enforce a trademark protecting the good name of Bitcoin (never mind other types of IP).

That was by design; and that design has benefits that I should not need to explain to the readers in this thread.  But the design has tradeoffs; there is also a cost.  For comparison, there is a reason why, e.g., Linus Torvalds has consistently claimed and been prepared to defend his trademark on the name Linux.  If Craig Wright pulled the same shenanigans against Linux, then Linus could and would sue hell out of him.

At this juncture, I must raise another issue.  Although it is NOT the legally applicable standard to Bitcoin (Satoshi used the MIT License), the spirit of the CPL reflects the type of thinking that left Satoshi’s identity open to theft:

Quote from: cypherpunks
Interpretation

The user can redistribute the work or a derived or modified work

  • under a different license of their choosing
  • with or without source code as they choose
  • without acknowledging the distributors or authors
  • with false or innaccurate claims about authorship of the work
  • advertise without acknowledging the authors

This is an issue that has long bothered me, and left me wondering if I am the only one in the world to notice it.  By coincidence, I recently touched on this in another thread—without elaboration, but with an intent to explain further in an appropriate context:

Unlike copyright law violations, plagiarism is truly the theft of ideas.  It is singularly the most reprehensible wrong that can be committed within the realm of the intellect; and it is inherently fraudulent, an intellectual scam by definition.

/* XXX TODO:  Publish and link here an essay concisely explaining the total difference in concepts between copyright and plagiarism, and how this confusion, promulgated by the copyright lobby, has been made worse by both GPL and the Creative Commons.  Disclosure:  I am opposed to all current copyright laws.  (And the question of whether an ideal copyright law enforced by unicorns and faeries could be morally justified is mental masturbation, when all current copyright laws are corrupt beyond repair.) */

Overall, we need a better way:  A way for anonymous parties to interface with the State via non-anonymous parties.  /* XXX TODO:  Create and link here a topic about this. */  Meanwhile, we are left with this:

Quote
Now-- if you want to argue that various threads aren't very effective and that the community could do better?  I couldn't agree more.

/* XXX TODO:  Discuss further within the scope of this thread; and create and link other topics expanding that scope, including:

  • An essay on Lightning Network and radically rethinking the future of Bitcoin.  I began working on this a few weeks ago; I intended to finish and publish it today (2020-01-05), but put it aside to examine the BSV issue.  This can be pivoted and adapted in a positive way to integrate with a counterstoke against BSV.  Don’t worry:  When I say “radically rethinking”, I mean that I am an extremist for the principles more moderately espoused by the most well-known Core and LN developers.
  • The already-intended sequel to the preceding item:  An essay on rebranding Bitcoin in the Lightning era.  Same relevance here.  I list strengthening the positive message before I get to the negative, on the principle that you should always define yourself by what you are for before you say what you are against.
  • More coherent analysis of Craig Wright, and how to tear down his sham.  First, I need to catch up on what he’s been doing for the past two years.

*/

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January 06, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 12:55:36 PM by nullius
 #16

With due apologies for the double-post, I request guidance that should surely be useful to others:  What is the appropriate forum for creating threads about CW/BSV, for analysis and advocacy from a Bitcoin perspective?

Please don’t tell me to go to altcoins.  This is a Bitcoin issue, and I’m trying to protect Bitcoin.

Some of my intended discussion will go to the Ivory Tower, including some essays I’ve had simmering on the back burner for awhile (now adapted to deal with issues that I was ignoring).  I’m not asking about those—some things are just Ivory Tower issues.  And I already created a relevant topic in the forum which is the opposite of Ivory Tower.  (Note my use of a different writing style.  I even use smileys.)  I am looking for something in the middle:  A forum regularly watched by the types of people in this thread, but open to everybody, but with fewer shitposts and higher S/N than Bitcoin Discussion.

Where should we organize and advocate on this issue?  Perhaps I should propose the creation of a “Bitcoin Advocacy” forum; would those reading this thread support that idea?



My +20 to gmaxwell was not mere grandstanding.  Ignoring Craig Wright as a clown was catastrophically naïve on my part.  I see this now—now that I am actually reading BSV propaganda.

Craig Wright is not Craig Wright.  Somebody must be pulling his strings; read between the lines.  And the agenda being pushed is one that is backed by extraordinary intelligence, in multiple senses of that word.  —Also, backed by unlimited resources.  I now believe that Wright is only a tool, who will be discarded if BSV does not bring the desired results—meanwhile, of course, he can pocket as much money from this as he can grab, without fear of arrest or lawsuits.  If my theory is correct, as long as he serves his purpose, his handlers would not care about the money or what he does with it; they have bigger fish to fry.

(And at this point, I don’t think that Gavin was stupid:  I suspect that he was compromised.)



The draft of one of my not-yet-published essays opens with the observation that Bitcoin has a fatal flaw; and I continue with some personal discussion of why I’m not “Bitcoin rich”:  I spent years casually watching Bitcoin as an intellectual curiosity, whilst assiduously avoiding use of an append-only global public ledger—an idea which frankly horrified me.  (My proposed solution is Lightning.  By the way, observe who hates Lightning and the Layer-1 technologies that enable it.)  BSV agrees with me, after a fashion:

Bitcoin destroys anonymity in all its forms. [...] The path forward is already set in stone. [...] When you understand Bitcoin, when you understand a sound system of money that acts to allow exchange privately but with an immutable evidence trail, you will start to understand why I created Bitcoin.

Orwellian word-twisting and imposter-claims aside, the quoted portion is correct:  Bitcoin, as originally designed, is an anti-privacy technology.  I saw that years ago.  That’s why I am poor.  I am not revealing non-public information by pointing out that “nullius” appeared on the Zcash project forum before appearing here.  The Zerocoin paper caught my attention in 2013, and I am too patient for my own good.  I am not advocating Zcash here—to the contrary!  Lightning makes “privacy coins” obsolete.

The biggest incentive that I can think of to keep Bitcoin’s design “set in stone” is to retain its anti-privacy characteristics.  BSV openly, explicitly declares that this is its agenda!  WAR IS PEACE.  FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.  FINANCIAL SURVEILLANCE IS PRIVACY.

Wake up, people!  This is not about Craig Wright.  This is much bigger than a scam to grab money (though Wright is no doubt enjoying that ancillary benefit for himself).  It is a strategy to impose KYC-GovCoin by the backdoor, with the explicit public approval of “Satoshi Nakamoto”.  Financial surveillance is “Satoshi’s Vision”.

[Edit:  Need a mass-appeal meme graphic with a creepy-looking photo of Craig Wright and some imagery suggestive of Nineteen Eighty-Four:  “Satoshi’s Vision:  ‘SATOSHI’ IS WATCHING YOU.”]

Now, please, let’s not discuss that here.  Instead, let’s figure out the right forum for new topics about these issues; and I will take it up there.

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January 06, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
 #17

What an absolutely brilliant post   Grin

Ah gentlemand I have to say that your take on this whole issue is, dare I say equally funny as much as it is baffling !

If my friend and colleague (gentlemand) who is held in very high esteem and very high regards by members across this board states that Wright associated threads should be incarcerated within the Scam Accusations section for all of eternity where he shall remain being the "queen of our hearts" then who am I for one to disagree with such a highly intellectually apt thesis which deserves nothing but recognition and praise on a universal basis?


Though I love him dearly for his sheer ludicrousness I hereby vow to never contribute to another new thread about him ever again. I will be forced to dip into the scam accusation one occasionally as it's just too much fun. That's where he should remain, that and forever being the queen of our hearts.

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January 06, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
 #18

My working theory was that, now the great pretender has painted himself into a corner, there was nowhere left for him to go.  That's why I thought the time had now come to simply ignore him.  But what I'm reading here in response tells me that people see the problem escalating if we do that.  So if we're fighting it head-on, count me in.  I do like the sound of a Bitcoin Advocacy sub, although I don't know if it would garner sufficient traffic to be viable.  But I'm all for presenting a united front against this figurative shitfountain.  However we're doing it, it's definitely time for the community to make a stand.

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January 06, 2020, 07:22:03 PM
 #19

Need a mass-appeal meme graphic with a creepy-looking photo of Craig Wright


(imgur seems on the fritz)

Eh?
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January 06, 2020, 07:46:22 PM
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My working theory was that, now the great pretender has painted himself into a corner, there was nowhere left for him to go.  That's why I thought the time had now come to simply ignore him.  But what I'm reading here in response tells me that people see the problem escalating if we do that.  

Maybe I'm warped but I never saw any type of 'threat' in the first place. He's a ludicrous shit heel backed by a pervert who've attached themselves to a fork of a fork.

Two seconds of googling would give anyone with a functioning mind an immediate overview of the fountain of diarrhoea they've spouted since turning up.

Since every single credible person who's given an opinion on this has clearly stated it's all balls if someone wants to wander off into their loving embrace anyway then I hope they enjoy themselves.

After they've yielded to them they may start to wonder why it's not on Coinbase, Binance or Kraken, never written about in the press other than the whole thing being a joke and why they're laughed at openly every time they pipe up by almost everyone from every crypto faction.

To me at least it feels a little like a crypto care home where the special cases can see out their decline in peace without polluting everywhere else.

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