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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1249343 times)
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padrino
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November 21, 2015, 12:38:51 AM
 #13721

Frankly, I'm sometimes astonished about how few due diligence is done in the Bitcoin world. BTCS... or TouchIT Technologies, Inc., or Hotel Management Systems, Inc. were all some kind of really weird financial constructs which, at the end of the day, were producing money for the management and leaving the ordinary shareholders with empty pockets.  No wonder had they to write in 2011: "Not quite sure why there is a rumour out in the investment community that we are not a real company and a scam - we couldn't be more real if we tried!" Well, they obviously didn't try hard enough.

Of course the last few pages are filled with dribble, no understanding of the filings being read and very poor conclusions are being drawn from dogie and others.. I am not going to jump in the middle of it since it looks like I'd be trying to tech a Kindergartner finance in the case of dogie.. All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

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November 21, 2015, 12:46:31 AM
 #13722

Frankly, I'm sometimes astonished about how few due diligence is done in the Bitcoin world. BTCS... or TouchIT Technologies, Inc., or Hotel Management Systems, Inc. were all some kind of really weird financial constructs which, at the end of the day, were producing money for the management and leaving the ordinary shareholders with empty pockets.  No wonder had they to write in 2011: "Not quite sure why there is a rumour out in the investment community that we are not a real company and a scam - we couldn't be more real if we tried!" Well, they obviously didn't try hard enough.

Of course the last few pages are filled with dribble, no understanding of the filings being read and very poor conclusions are being drawn from dogie and others.. I am not going to jump in the middle of it since it looks like I'd be trying to tech a Kindergartner finance in the case of dogie.. All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

SEC-filings normally are indeed sometimes very misleading and hard to understand - especially if there is a lack of legal and financial background. Therefore, I always recommend to ask some very simple questions: "How do you make money?" and "How much money do you make?". If the first question is answered with a litany of legal speak, you can be sure that the answer to the second question is "zero" or "minus"...

Funny, though, how the people behind BTCS became "famous" for the "Madoffization"-excuse as well as for the "All-are-afraid-of-China"-excuse.
 
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November 21, 2015, 12:59:11 AM
 #13723

Of course the last few pages are filled with dribble, no understanding of the filings being read and very poor conclusions are being drawn from dogie and others.. I am not going to jump in the middle of it since it looks like I'd be trying to tech a Kindergartner finance in the case of dogie.. All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...
It is a common problem of the libertarian web sites: they are generally anti-education, because schooling allegedly is brain-washing and destroys creativity. The problem is compounded on the Bitcoin web sites: when somebody tries to post some nontrivial information requiring some minimal self-education in accounting he immediately gets branded as anti-Bitcoin, statist and a tool of the banking establishment.

It is also the reason why reading the Bitcoin web sites is so fascinating: it is like a safari or a dive in a shark cage. But there's no real blood, is just a bloodless transfer of capital.



Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
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November 21, 2015, 01:22:26 AM
 #13724

Frankly, I'm sometimes astonished about how few due diligence is done in the Bitcoin world. BTCS... or TouchIT Technologies, Inc., or Hotel Management Systems, Inc. were all some kind of really weird financial constructs which, at the end of the day, were producing money for the management and leaving the ordinary shareholders with empty pockets.  No wonder had they to write in 2011: "Not quite sure why there is a rumour out in the investment community that we are not a real company and a scam - we couldn't be more real if we tried!" Well, they obviously didn't try hard enough.

Of course the last few pages are filled with dribble, no understanding of the filings being read and very poor conclusions are being drawn from dogie and others.. I am not going to jump in the middle of it since it looks like I'd be trying to tech a Kindergartner finance in the case of dogie.. All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

If you disagree on a point then disagree on it, don't claim "I'm better than all of you so I'm right generically, non-specifically and without any evidence and that's it". You're saying that everyone (including you) isn't qualified to read SEC statements, yet you're claiming that my 'interpretation' is wrong - how would you know I'm wrong if you're also not "qualified"?


Kindly explain how the below - directly removed from page 63 of the latest filing - could in any respect be interpreted as 'not insane'. It is not an interpretation, it is 4 numbers directly quoted.

1. Company has $38k of revenue
2. Company has $31k gross profit
3. Company has net loss of $14.7m
4. Management paid themselves $8.9m, or 23500% revenue.


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November 21, 2015, 01:25:01 AM
 #13725

It is sad to see people so quick to jump on the dogie-hates-spondoolies bandwagon for no other reason than SP-Tech not selling any miners atm. What they do with their business & how much they pay their employees is precisely that - their business. I'm not interested in any of that stuff, & it certainly isn't a justified reason to try & lynch them.

Spondoolies took mining to another level with quality equipment that, in my & many others case, is still running strong. I have had nothing but good service & communications from them & still do. Even if they never make or sell another miner to the public again, I will still hold them in high regard, which is more than I can say for other mining manufacturers.

Times change quickly in the mining world. Businesses can change their plans like everyone else. If anyone thinks they have been ripped off by SP-Tech they should open a scam thread like everyone else does instead of peppering this thread with "they earn this" & "they done that" posts. SP-Tech bought some much needed competition to the market place & done a lot of good to the mining community in general - don't let one bitter individual change your perceptions over something you have no control over. It is what it is, accept it.

In the meantime, we can only hope that they do decide to sell retail again, those SP50's are a beast!

You all know you want one  Wink
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November 21, 2015, 01:31:10 AM
 #13726

It is sad to see people so quick to jump on the dogie-hates-spondoolies bandwagon for no other reason than SP-Tech not selling any miners atm. What they do with their business & how much they pay their employees is precisely that - their business. I'm not interested in any of that stuff, & it certainly isn't a justified reason to try & lynch them.

One should make the distinction between Spondoolies - which I DO love for their gear and transparency - and BTCS.

Quote
Spondoolies took mining to another level with quality equipment that, in my & many others case, is still running strong. I have had nothing but good service & communications from them & still do. Even if they never make or sell another miner to the public again, I will still hold them in high regard, which is more than I can say for other mining manufacturers.

Times change quickly in the mining world. Businesses can change their plans like everyone else. If anyone thinks they have been ripped off by SP-Tech they should open a scam thread like everyone else does instead of peppering this thread with "they earn this" & "they done that" posts. SP-Tech bought some much needed competition to the market place & done a lot of good to the mining community in general - don't let one bitter individual change your perceptions over something you have no control over. It is what it is, accept it.

In the meantime, we can only hope that they do decide to sell retail again, those SP50's are a beast!

You all know you want one  Wink

I totally agree with you regarding Spondoolies. But the earning which was quoted by dogie is the one from the BTCS-guys, isn't it? And their corporate past is a little bit weird, to say it moderate.
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November 21, 2015, 03:20:54 AM
 #13727

God I really don't want to get in to it with you again, but if you think that of that $8.9M in compensation, all of it was actually "Paid", you are a complete fool.  There is a discernible difference between money that was "paid" and stock options awarded.  Let's put it this way, if the company awarded millions of shares to the management team for their work, but the company tanks and the shares are worth zero, how much did the directors make? Besides, Stock Options are not even Stocks, they are commitments that only create benefit if things go well for the company.  Things are not always as they seem, and the salaries and bonuses they are actually paying their management are not exorbitant by any stretch.

What I really can't understand is why Guy and SP-Tech are not deleting more of your whiny OT posts in their thread.
If you disagree on a point then disagree on it, don't claim "I'm better than all of you so I'm right generically, non-specifically and without any evidence and that's it". You're saying that everyone (including you) isn't qualified to read SEC statements, yet you're claiming that my 'interpretation' is wrong - how would you know I'm wrong if you're also not "qualified"?


Kindly explain how the below - directly removed from page 63 of the latest filing - could in any respect be interpreted as 'not insane'. It is not an interpretation, it is 4 numbers directly quoted.

1. Company has $38k of revenue
2. Company has $31k gross profit
3. Company has net loss of $14.7m
4. Management paid themselves $8.9m, or 23500% revenue.


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November 21, 2015, 03:32:20 AM
 #13728

God I really don't want to get in to it with you again, but if you think that of that $8.9M in compensation, all of it was actually "Paid", you are a complete fool.  There is a discernible difference between money that was "paid" and stock options awarded.  Let's put it this way, if the company awarded millions of shares to the management team for their work, but the company tanks and the shares are worth zero, how much did the directors make? Besides, Stock Options are not even Stocks, they are commitments that only create benefit if things go well for the company.  Things are not always as they seem, and the salaries and bonuses they are actually paying their management are not exorbitant by any stretch.

Dogie,

Finsky makes the point above quite well.... I never said I was not qualified, just that I would not get into it with you since you do not even understand basic terminology, no point in discussing the specifics when you don't have a grasp of the basic terms being used throughout the filings...

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November 21, 2015, 04:30:53 AM
 #13729

God I really don't want to get in to it with you again, but if you think that of that $8.9M in compensation, all of it was actually "Paid", you are a complete fool.  There is a discernible difference between money that was "paid" and stock options awarded.  Let's put it this way, if the company awarded millions of shares to the management team for their work, but the company tanks and the shares are worth zero, how much did the directors make? Besides, Stock Options are not even Stocks, they are commitments that only create benefit if things go well for the company.  Things are not always as they seem, and the salaries and bonuses they are actually paying their management are not exorbitant by any stretch.

Dogie,

Finsky makes the point above quite well.... I never said I was not qualified, just that I would not get into it with you since you do not even understand basic terminology, no point in discussing the specifics when you don't have a grasp of the basic terms being used throughout the filings...

I'd remind you that in any debate, you're not trying to convince your opponent, but the audience.

I for one would like to know more of the technical aspects here. I have a not insignificant amount of stock options in the company I contract to, and it was my understanding that aside from a specific purchase price being guarnateed IN THE EVENT that the company becomes valuable, they're basically a hope for the future, not an actual salary. (No, I don't feel I had it misrepresented to me, I'd just like to know more about it. ) As for this specific case, I've yet to here a serious complaint against Spondoolies that has not been resolved regarding their hardware. Unfortunately, I have no dog in the fight because I couldn't afford the machine that I really wanted Cheesy Maybe on the used market...

New exchange new exchange coming soon  Looks like it could be a contender. Disclosure: This is an affiliate link. Costs you nothing, might make me something. Cypherfunks will rise Again! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469407.0 Litecoin Cash Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/F2nZXnW
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November 21, 2015, 04:38:28 AM
 #13730

All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

I have experience as a financial analyst for a Fortune 500 company...  While dogie's analysis is horrendous as far as the numbers go, his assessment of the situation appears quite accurate.

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November 21, 2015, 04:54:13 AM
 #13731

so ognasty do you think this will crash sp50 do not mine in bulk??

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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November 21, 2015, 04:55:12 AM
 #13732

All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

I have experience as a financial analyst for a Fortune 500 company...  While dogie's analysis is horrendous as far as the numbers go, his assessment of the situation appears quite accurate.

Well, I am not a "financial" person but looking at free EDGAR is seems that Sidie sold to Allen 16.8 mil shares on 9/3/2014 (out of ~24 mil that he had) for $0.0033/share (.33 c/share) or ~55K, which is, of course, a far cry from $4mil. A strange transaction. Was BTCS (or a parental company) almost bankrupt at that time?
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November 21, 2015, 05:24:59 AM
 #13733

God I really don't want to get in to it with you again, but if you think that of that $8.9M in compensation, all of it was actually "Paid", you are a complete fool.  There is a discernible difference between money that was "paid" and stock options awarded.  Let's put it this way, if the company awarded millions of shares to the management team for their work, but the company tanks and the shares are worth zero, how much did the directors make? Besides, Stock Options are not even Stocks, they are commitments that only create benefit if things go well for the company.  Things are not always as they seem, and the salaries and bonuses they are actually paying their management are not exorbitant by any stretch.

Dogie,

Finsky makes the point above quite well.... I never said I was not qualified, just that I would not get into it with you since you do not even understand basic terminology, no point in discussing the specifics when you don't have a grasp of the basic terms being used throughout the filings...

I'd remind you that in any debate, you're not trying to convince your opponent, but the audience.

I for one would like to know more of the technical aspects here. I have a not insignificant amount of stock options in the company I contract to, and it was my understanding that aside from a specific purchase price being guarnateed IN THE EVENT that the company becomes valuable, they're basically a hope for the future, not an actual salary. (No, I don't feel I had it misrepresented to me, I'd just like to know more about it. ) As for this specific case, I've yet to here a serious complaint against Spondoolies that has not been resolved regarding their hardware. Unfortunately, I have no dog in the fight because I couldn't afford the machine that I really wanted Cheesy Maybe on the used market...

If you're looking for a dog, I have a couple of tried and true SP20E's that I'm going to let go of shortly, PM me if interested.
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November 21, 2015, 05:59:42 AM
 #13734

Does Miner-Edge have access to your new asic?  Grin

Thank you!
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November 21, 2015, 08:02:17 AM
 #13735

It's all a load of crap anyway.
If the SP50 works as well as the Sp 3X series did, then it's a game changer for both.
The only concern is Allen could have found a cheaper location in regards to electrical costs and buildings. NC isn't bad but he could have done better. 
My guess is it's 50-50...as there could be some "value oriented investor with deep pockets" who might take the risk and turn it around.  Someone other than BitFury has to play their hand in this to get the whole Bitcoin ecosystem off the ground. Like any new frontier there will be winners and losers.
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November 21, 2015, 08:49:11 AM
 #13736

It is sad to see people so quick to jump on the dogie-hates-spondoolies bandwagon for no other reason
This is the permabanned guy with 18 accounts, he'll disagree with anything I say because he's annoyed I outed his accounts and most were banned. I'll reply to the semi sensible parts, but the only reason he's on this account is because the posts from one of his full on troll account (biefstuk) are being deleted.


What they do with their business & how much they pay their employees is precisely that - their business.
You mean like everything BFL did and does is their own business and no one elses? /s. There are investors, potential investors, potential customers on here all of which need the complete picture on what is happening / could happen with their money after it leaves their hands.


In the meantime, we can only hope that they do decide to sell retail again, those SP50's are a beast! You all know you want one  Wink
I doubt your courthouse farm flat has a spare 70A supply, you don't want an SP50.


If anyone thinks they have been ripped off by SP-Tech they should open a scam thread like everyone else does instead of peppering this thread with "they earn this" & "they done that" posts.
I posted a brief proof, Spondoolies posted nothing, much like them ignoring demand letters by not collecting them and they're lawyers desperately trying to stall. If they want to refute the claims, I can create a scam accusation thread on here but in the mean time we're providing the evidence to the court - someone they can't ignore. "IRL scam accusations ftw."


God I really don't want to get in to it with you again
I have no problems with you making thought out and evidenced arguments, its the "dogie said something so I automatically disagree with it looooool" which is a problem.


but if you think that of that $8.9M in compensation, all of it was actually "Paid", you are a complete fool. There is a discernible difference between money that was "paid" and stock options awarded.
Them being paid or not is not the issue, the issue is that they tried to do this. The only significant money coming into the company is from shareholders, not actual company activities.


What I really can't understand is why Guy and SP-Tech are not deleting more of your whiny OT posts in their thread.
Because they want to keep under the radar, not generate more liability. Or well, because they know they have nothing to respond with (like their lawyers).


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November 21, 2015, 08:49:31 AM
 #13737

One should make the distinction between Spondoolies - which I DO love for their gear and transparency - and BTCS.
BTCS is the majority shareholder of Spondoolies-Tech meaning Spondoolies-Tech is now just a subsidiary of BTCS. They are also at the whim of BTCS as to what to do with their products (SP50), future products (SP4X, SP6C etc). The success, failure and alleged spooky practises of BTCS have enormously significant consequences for the account you know as Spondoolies-Tech.


I totally agree with you regarding Spondoolies. But the earning which was quoted by dogie is the one from the BTCS-guys, isn't it? And their corporate past is a little bit weird, to say it moderate.
Its a direct screenshot from their latest SEC filling, found on page 63.


Finsky makes the point above quite well.... I never said I was not qualified, just that I would not get into it with you since you do not even understand basic terminology, no point in discussing the specifics when you don't have a grasp of the basic terms being used throughout the filings...
What specifically, you're using the "I'm simply better than you" argument again.


All I will say if that if folks on the forum are looking for a real assessment of the filings they need to get someone qualified to review them to weigh in...

I have experience as a financial analyst for a Fortune 500 company...  While dogie's analysis is horrendous as far as the numbers go, his assessment of the situation appears quite accurate.

Which numbers, if something is incorrect I'd like to fix it? [You can PM me if that makes a difference.]


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November 21, 2015, 08:53:22 AM
 #13738

Well, I am not a "financial" person but looking at free EDGAR is seems that Sidie sold to Allen 16.8 mil shares on 9/3/2014 (out of ~24 mil that he had) for $0.0033/share (.33 c/share) or ~55K, which is, of course, a far cry from $4mil. A strange transaction. Was BTCS (or a parental company) almost bankrupt at that time?
Here are all the quotes regarding Sidie from the latest filing.


Quote
On February 5, 2014, we entered into an employment agreement with Timothy Sidie (the “Sidie Employment Agreement”), whereby Mr. Sidie agreed to serve as our former Chief Technology Officer for a period of two (2) years, subject to renewal, in consideration for an annual salary of $140,000. Additionally, under the terms of the Sidie Employment Agreement, Mr. Sidie shall be eligible for an annual bonus if we meet certain criteria, as established by the Board of Directors. Mr. Sidie shall be entitled to participate in all benefits plans we provide to our senior executive. We shall reimburse Mr. Sidie for all reasonable expenses incurred in the course of his employment. In the event Mr. Sidie’s employment is terminated without Cause or by Mr. Sidie with Good Reason (as such term is defined in the Sidie Employment Agreement), Mr. Sidie shall be entitled to a scaled severance package, including scaled salary benefits, 12 months of benefits commensurate to senior executives, and pro-rated bonuses earned. Additionally, pursuant to the terms of the Sidie Employment Agreement, we have agreed to execute and deliver in favor of Mr. Sidie an indemnification agreement and to maintain directors’ and officers’ insurance with terms and in the amounts commensurate with our senior executive.

In connection with his employment with us, we granted Mr. Sidie a five-year non-qualified stock option to purchase up to 1,550,368 shares of our common stock at an exercise price of $0.50 per share (the “Sidie Options”), which options shall vest in twelve (12) equal monthly installments, beginning on the one (1) year anniversary of the date of issuance and every one (1) month anniversary thereafter, provided Mr. Sidie remains continuously engaged as a director or officer of our Company through the applicable vesting date. In the event that Mr. Sidie is removed as a director, officer or employee by us at any time other than for “Cause” or resigns as a director, officer or employee for “Good Reason” the Sidie Options shall immediately vest in full.

On November 7, 2014, we entered into an Option Cancellation and Release Agreement with Tim Sidie pursuant to which Mr. Sidie agreed to return to us for cancellation, options to purchase up to 1,550,368 shares of our common stock, par value $0.001 per share, with an exercise price of $0.50, held by him.

Putting some shares up for offer:
Quote
2,560,741 shares consist of 1,050,000 shares of Common Stock and shares issuable upon exercise of warrants to purchase 125,000 shares of Common Stock and 1,385,741 shares of Common Stock not being sold as part of this offering. Timothy Andrew Sidie is our former Chief Technology Officer.

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November 21, 2015, 09:26:59 AM
 #13739

Why did SP take this deal?  If they needed money, take preorders on the SP50.  They had a ton of goodwill they could have cashed in. 

It sounds like anything would have been better than SP getting together with these guys. 
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November 21, 2015, 10:34:31 PM
 #13740

Why did SP take this deal?  If they needed money, take preorders on the SP50.  They had a ton of goodwill they could have cashed in. 

It sounds like anything would have been better than SP getting together with these guys. 

It's called greed .. and shareholder pressure ... RIP.     Left me thinking the goodwill might have been carefully fabricated? 




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