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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1253234 times)
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Guy Corem
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April 10, 2017, 06:15:16 AM
 #14421

Kano educated me today about his following post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263840.0

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 11, 2017, 10:37:57 PM
 #14422

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 12, 2017, 12:09:49 AM
 #14423

Hey Guy!

Please post how you arrived at "15% power savings". What are the components of the practical loss versus theoretical gain? How much worse is the highest achievable overclock or lowest achievable undervolt? How much worse is the useable manufacturing yield?
 
Edit:

One more question I forgot: would ASICBOOST require additional testing circuitry on the chip? Raw Bitcoin mining is essentially self-testing.


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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April 12, 2017, 12:27:24 AM
 #14424

Hey Guy!

Please post how you arrived at "15% power savings". What are the components of the practical loss versus theoretical gain? How much worse is the highest achievable overclock or lowest achievable undervolt? How much worse is the useable manufacturing yield?
Is rather what I was thinking about.

Ok, AB allows for somewhat faster processing of a possible hash by being able to internally come up with a new hash to work on vs getting new work from a pool/server right?

But - since most of the power is consumed when the ASICs actually clock to crunch the numbers, where does energy saving come in? When they are twiddling their thumbs waiting for new work power consumption drops quite a bit. so I would think it rather evens out, no?

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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April 12, 2017, 12:41:16 AM
 #14425

Ok, AB allows for somewhat faster processing of a possible hash by being able to internally come up with a new hash to work on vs getting new work from a pool/server right?

But - since most of the power is consumed when the ASICs actually clock to crunch the numbers, where does energy saving come in? When they are twiddling their thumbs waiting for new work power consumption drops quite a bit. so I would think it rather evens out, no?
ASICBOOST whitepaper computes savings purely by counting one-bit logical operations (gates) in a purely combinatorial (fully unrolled) implementation. That's how they arrived at their numbers:
Number of colliding work items1245816
Gain in percent0.0012.5018.7520.0021.923.4
I have no non-bullshit information about any actual implementation. I presume that in a pure-ASICBOOST chip the savings would come from less combinatorial logic. In a mixed, switchable chip (that can mine both raw and boosted) the power savings would come from disabling clock on a portion of circuitry that computes terms that are common under boosting.

Edit: added table formatting

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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April 12, 2017, 01:48:53 AM
 #14426

Bitmain's variant of ASICBoost https://www.google.com/patents/CN105245327A?cl=en
And yer right. The abstract mentions disabling a part of the logic during some operations. Aside from that is wayyyy beyond my depth.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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April 13, 2017, 10:30:35 PM
 #14427

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

Developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
ZERO FEE Pooled mining at ckpool.org, 1% Fee Solo mining at solo.ckpool.org
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April 14, 2017, 03:32:36 AM
 #14428

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.
They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 14, 2017, 05:22:42 AM
 #14429

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.
They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.
Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

Developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
ZERO FEE Pooled mining at ckpool.org, 1% Fee Solo mining at solo.ckpool.org
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April 14, 2017, 05:42:59 AM
 #14430

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.
They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.
Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.
Try to read the BIP proposal from their perspective. They distrust and dislike the author. He makes bogus inflated claims. The entire community believes they hold unfair advantage.
I hardly blame them. Yes, their PR is awful.

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 15, 2017, 04:16:31 PM
 #14431

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.
They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.
Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

so let me understand: asicboost essentially is an added logicgate at chiplevel that determines whether a specific nonce is worth hashing, and if not, the chip doesnt do any other work for that cycle (hence the savings). So its not any faster at mining, it just saves some power??

if thats the case, it actually serves to decentralize mining by making minimal savings for the big (cheap-power) miners but significant savings for smaller miners who have more expensive electricity. ie: someone paying $0.03/kwh saves maybe $5/month, while someone paying $0.10/kwh saves $15/month

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
No longer a wannabe - now an ASIC owner!
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April 15, 2017, 07:46:13 PM
 #14432

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.
They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.
Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

so let me understand: asicboost essentially is an added logicgate at chiplevel that determines whether a specific nonce is worth hashing, and if not, the chip doesnt do any other work for that cycle (hence the savings). So its not any faster at mining, it just saves some power??

if thats the case, it actually serves to decentralize mining by making minimal savings for the big (cheap-power) miners but significant savings for smaller miners who have more expensive electricity. ie: someone paying $0.03/kwh saves maybe $5/month, while someone paying $0.10/kwh saves $15/month
No, your description of AB is completely wrong.
Please research online, there are enough resources these days.

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 15, 2017, 07:56:53 PM
 #14433

Another interesting proposal is Cuckoo hash by John Tromp:
https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo
I have been told that an attack has been found on Cuckoo hash recently (trading memory for more work).
I didn't look into it.

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 16, 2017, 03:37:10 AM
 #14434

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 16, 2017, 11:03:40 PM
 #14435

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.
What about the SP45 Newton 16 Th/s miner?
http://spondoolies-tech.co/products/sp45-newton-shipping-from-stock.html

edit: I guess this was a scam as well?
Because your domain use to be http://www.spondoolies-tech.com and not the one above?

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April 17, 2017, 03:38:32 AM
 #14436

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.
What about the SP45 Newton 16 Th/s miner?
http://spondoolies-tech.co/products/sp45-newton-shipping-from-stock.html

edit: I guess this was a scam as well?
Because your domain use to be http://www.spondoolies-tech.com and not the one above?
It's a scam and scam site

Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam-mw.com/
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April 17, 2017, 09:38:07 PM
 #14437

I enjoyed the mining rigs while they were around! lost track of what has been going around here

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April 18, 2017, 09:29:22 AM
 #14438

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us. 
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

Get a HUGE 3% discount with promo code: MOON @ Genesis Mining
https://www.genesis-mining.com
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April 18, 2017, 10:50:27 AM
 #14439

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us.  
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

no, its fine.

we've been assured that the rampant dishonesty, delayed shipping, dusty/rusty rigs  & corner cutting was all pure coincidence and in no way intentional on the part of bitmain or any of his current and/or future business associates.

haven't we, guy...


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April 18, 2017, 10:58:23 AM
 #14440

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us. 
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

no, its fine.

we've been assured that the rampant dishonesty & corner cutting was a pure coincidence and in no way intentional on the part of bitmain or any of his current and/or future business associates.






 Cheesy  It makes little difference...ASIC mining at home is mostly over so Bitmain being a monopoly has little meaning....

There are other whales mining away & between them all,they will take Bitcoin where THEY want it to go...you little folks have no voice in the matter anymore  Wink


"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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