[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[AJRGale]

Have you ever considered in forming an alliance like OPEC to limit the hash rate race?    I just saw Bitfury said that their cloud service would only add hardware based on demand, is this a trend towards more cloud based service?

It's funny to read it from mega self miner.
No, it's illegal.

How is that illegal?   It is just a consensus (if it ever can be reached). Even pools can be allied together to protect against a faulty fork in 2013, and against potential 51% attack if it ever happens

Imagine a vendor that have leading semi-conductor process 10nm, he can limit his production scale at a certain level so that the network hash rate increase slowly. He then could start a cloud mining service and sell the hash power at market rate, which leaves him large margin to deal with market volatility. I think that is what Bitfury means

In the USA there is an antitrust law preventing companies from joining together to set / fix prices and supply. Its to promote fair competition for the consumers.

about that antitrust thing, why has it not kicked in for Warner bros. and Comcast? they are trying to stop this whole "class 2" act and monopolise the communication of the USA? they want you to pay for internet you are already paying for, "oh, we cant push youtube or netflicks down our pipe quick enough, they must pay for bigger pipes... hey customer, you can pay, you are already paying for our service, its their pipes which are to small"

*customer pays * *comcast flicks switch* *customer gets 720p videos*

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[johnyj]

It's collusion, and depending on how it's done it can definitely be illegal.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/multimillion-dollar-settlements-reached-in-lcd-price-fixing-class-action-1.2000656

Then OPEC must be carrying this illegal activity for several decades. And FED is the banking alliance to control and fix the price of the dollar for more than 100 years

There are a lot of people that do think OPEC is illegal, and the US Congress has rumbled every once in awhile about declaring it so. The Fed example is silly, that is not companies in an open market colluding to fix prices.

All the DRAM manufacturers could say "OPEC! The FED!" until they're blue in the face. It didn't stop them from getting hit with hundreds of millions in fines for price fixing.

Money is just like any other commodities openly traded on market, so the same rule applies. In fact, any bitcoin miner is a distributed central banker, of course they don't have to hold FOMC meeting to manipulate the money supply and interest rate to raise or lower dollar's value, since all the rules has been written in code in protocol

And a law can not be applied across country boarder, the actions against Samsung is more likely to be caused by some government officials to protect their domestic merchants

[thomas_s]

after a power cut, my sp30 wont mine.

2 sp20s and 4 s2 ants are all ok, the sp30 powers up  but no yellow/green led

ive tried half a dozen sd recoveries with my 'old' recovery sd - that worked on sp30 & sp20 previously - no joy

half a dozen with a newly formatted/fresh sd card - no joy at all

the power supplies leds are lit green

...

We have the same problem but with a SP31

[Spondoolies-Tech]

@edgar, @thomas_s please contact support after the weekend.

[Spondoolies-Tech]

@edgar, @thomas_s please contact support after the weekend.

do you mean tomorrow? (Sunday)

On my last attempt (#13) after a prolonged off period, i did get the alternating (xmas) leds

upon removal of the sd card & powering off/on - i am back to noisy fans and zero mining.

as though the recovery didnt 'stick'
...
...
...

ive tried 3 more since writing that - no joy at all

My guess is some management board problem. Yes, Sunday. It's 2 days from now for us.

[Spondoolies-Tech]

Snapshot of the manufacturers poll Philipma1957 ran before the mods killed it off



I find the mods action unbelievable.

Guy

Edit:
I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938782.0

Who has the best firmware? Someone that always buys Bitmain products isn't going to have a clue who has the best firmware, or customer service. To truly get honest feedback from those questions the user would need to have products from all the manufactures listed. Since I only own two of the manufacture's listed in the polls, I really can't answer them accurately.

I agree that it wasn't a good question. Maybe better questions would have been:

- Which manufacturer firmware has more useful features
- Which manufacturer is more attentive to customers features requests

btw, you can say the same about the support questions, etc

[Spondoolies-Tech]

My predictions, three months ago: Bitcoin TLV `14, #25 - Guy Corem - Mining Forecast
BitFury revealed their mining address two days afterwards. I didn't expect to see AntPool grow so much.
Let's see how the rest of my predictions will be in 2015. It was based of BTC value of $400

The rest of Inside Bitcoin TLV lectures can be found here: Inside Bitcoins Tel Aviv 2014t
I think that it was one of the best Inside Bitcoin conferences ever. Kudos to Meni Rosenfeld.

Updated?

General comments now Guy on what you think is going to happen in the next few months?

I believe I have good visibility, however I can't give specifics due to NDAs, investors relations, etc.

Guy

Bullcrap. Listen, if you are going to hide behind the NDAs and put yourself out of the community like that then don't even mention anything at all. This Bitcoin forum should be for all to collaborate and share information, once you start putting a hierarchy on who gets to know what then you are turning it right into the same financial system we have now and why a lot of people are here. Suggestion, don't sign anymore NDAs so you don't have to say, "can't give specifics due to NDAs. This of course is my opinion.

I understand your frustration. However, in the normal course of doing business, you really need to sign NDAs.
Also, sometime the competitors, which with most of them I'm on friendly terms, tells you things and expect you to keep them confidential.
I can reveal only general stuff, and I did it more or less in the presentation.

Guy

[Spondoolies-Tech]

My predictions, three months ago: Bitcoin TLV `14, #25 - Guy Corem - Mining Forecast
BitFury revealed their mining address two days afterwards. I didn't expect to see AntPool grow so much.
Let's see how the rest of my predictions will be in 2015. It was based of BTC value of $400

The rest of Inside Bitcoin TLV lectures can be found here: Inside Bitcoins Tel Aviv 2014t
I think that it was one of the best Inside Bitcoin conferences ever. Kudos to Meni Rosenfeld.

I have dimension typo in the presentation. It's J/GH or W/GH/s, It's not J/GH/s

Guy

[Spondoolies-Tech]

I really don't know if I should post it or not, but since I already got a question from a worried customer, I guess I should.

https://epicenterbitcoin.com/podcast/063/ - @ 53 min

Yes, we've started initial discussion with Blockstream about "Smart Property ASICs".
The idea is to allow locking of an ASIC until a certain block height to a specific customer.
In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.
Both features will provide transparency and ease of mind to cloud mining customers. It will serve to fight the endless ponzi schemes in cloud mining.

Customers will be able to choose a cloud contract provider with such hardware features, and he/she will know for sure that their contract is 100% backed by real hardware.

It won't fix all the cloud providers problems, see for example: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2u1kiz/latest_email_from_cloudhashing/ (unbelievable, IMHO) but it's important step.

In addition, we intend to add another close source feature, enforceable rev-share (split mining). It will allow selling subsidise hardware and do a rev-share by mining to two different pools / wallets. No conspiracy theory please, the feature will be activated with the customer FULL knowledge and consent and it will be only optional.

Both features will promote de-centralisation of the network, even after home mining will, unfortunately, be over.

Tim Swanson (@ofnumbers), I know you read this thread since I've read some of my posts in your blog. Please stop spreading the nonsense about kill switch. No sane manufacturer will add such dangerous double edged sword.

Guy

Edit:
I posted a reply in the podcast URL (https://epicenterbitcoin.com/podcast/063/) and it wasn't approve.
I find it unprofessional by the blog / podcast owner.
Brian the postcast owner contacted me and told me that my reply was sent to spam automatically by Disqus. He posted my reply.

Edit2:
Just had a chat with Tim: https://twitter.com/ofnumbers/status/561606614029856769

[ManeBjorn]

You have mentioned it a couple times in interviews with me too.
It is a good idea and will help bring transparency to cloud mining for people.
I look forward to it.

I really don't know if I should post it or not, but since I already got a question from a worried customer, I guess I should.

https://epicenterbitcoin.com/podcast/063/ - @ 53 min

Yes, we've started initial discussion with Blockstream about "Smart Property ASICs".
The idea is to allow locking of an ASIC until a certain block height to a specific customer.
In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.
Both features will provide transparency and ease of mind to cloud mining customers. It will serve to fight the endless ponzi schemes in cloud mining.

Customers will be able to choose a cloud contract provider with such hardware features, and he/she will know for sure that their contract is 100% backed by real hardware.

It won't fix all the cloud providers problems, see for example: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2u1kiz/latest_email_from_cloudhashing/ (unbelievable, IMHO) but it's important step.

In addition, we intend to add another close source feature, enforceable rev-share (split mining). It will allow selling subsidise hardware and do a rev-share by mining to two different pools / wallets. No conspiracy theory please, the feature will be activated with the customer FULL knowledge and consent and it will be only optional.

Both features will promote de-centralisation of the network, even after home mining will, unfortunately, be over.

Tim Swanson (@ofnumbers), I know you read this thread since I've read some of my posts in your blog. Please stop spreading the nonsense about kill switch. No sane manufacturer will add such dangerous double edged sword.

Guy

[jimmothy]

Yes, we've started initial discussion with Blockstream about "Smart Property ASICs".
The idea is to allow locking of an ASIC until a certain block height to a specific customer.
In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.
Both features will provide transparency and ease of mind to cloud mining customers. It will serve to fight the endless ponzi schemes in cloud mining.

Can you go in to more detail? I understand and like the idea of locking an ASIC until a certain block height but I'm not sure I understand the cryptographic proof of hashrate.

Where will we go to see if they have the claimed hashrate or not? Will it be embedded in the blockchain? If so wouldn't it be easier to just disclose a mining address?

[Spondoolies-Tech]

Yes, we've started initial discussion with Blockstream about "Smart Property ASICs".
The idea is to allow locking of an ASIC until a certain block height to a specific customer.
In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.
Both features will provide transparency and ease of mind to cloud mining customers. It will serve to fight the endless ponzi schemes in cloud mining.

Can you go in to more detail? I understand and like the idea of locking an ASIC until a certain block height but I'm not sure I understand the cryptographic proof of hashrate.

Where will we go to see if they have the claimed hashrate or not? Will it be embedded in the blockchain? If so wouldn't it be easier to just disclose a mining address?

Not yet. We do intend to open the spec before actually implementing.
Revealing mining address won't help, since I hope that in the future each cloud contract customer will be able to choose her/his own mining pool preference.

[Biomech]

Have you ever considered in forming an alliance like OPEC to limit the hash rate race?    I just saw Bitfury said that their cloud service would only add hardware based on demand, is this a trend towards more cloud based service?

It's funny to read it from mega self miner.
No, it's illegal.

How is that illegal?  It is just a consensus (if it ever can be reached). Even pools can be allied together to protect against a faulty fork in 2013, and against potential 51% attack if it ever happens

Imagine a vendor that have leading semi-conductor process 10nm, he can limit his production scale at a certain level so that the network hash rate increase slowly. He then could start a cloud mining service and sell the hash power at market rate, which leaves him large margin to deal with market volatility. I think that is what Bitfury means

In the USA there is an antitrust law preventing companies from joining together to set / fix prices and supply. Its to promote fair competition for the consumers.

Except that in practice monopolies and cartels are the rule rather than the exception. Many are protected territorial monopolies,such as power companies, others just invested in America by buying senators and (potential) Presidents, such as the very obvious Health insurance cartels.

Frankly, the "antitrust" laws are only ever invoked against companies that THREATEN protected monopolies. It's a really poor argument.

[Biomech]

It's collusion, and depending on how it's done it can definitely be illegal.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/multimillion-dollar-settlements-reached-in-lcd-price-fixing-class-action-1.2000656

Then OPEC must be carrying this illegal activity for several decades. And FED is the banking alliance to control and fix the price of the dollar for more than 100 years

There are a lot of people that do think OPEC is illegal, and the US Congress has rumbled every once in awhile about declaring it so. The Fed example is silly, that is not companies in an open market colluding to fix prices.

All the DRAM manufacturers could say "OPEC! The FED!" until they're blue in the face. It didn't stop them from getting hit with hundreds of millions in fines for price fixing.

Actually, the FED is structured as 12 <ahem> PRIVATE banks. It is indeed price fixing in the closest to an open market there is outside of the "black" markets. It is probably the most protected monopoly in the world, currently, with the real, if not legal, power to tell it's supposed masters to get bent when they demand accountability.

[zvisha]

@edgar, @thomas_s please contact support after the weekend.

do you mean tomorrow? (Sunday)

On my last attempt (#13) after a prolonged off period, i did get the alternating (xmas) leds

upon removal of the sd card & powering off/on - i am back to noisy fans and zero mining.

as though the recovery didnt 'stick'
...
...
...

ive tried 3 more since writing that - no joy at all

My guess is some management board problem. Yes, Sunday. It's 2 days from now for us.

my mistake, it feels like a saturday here.


anyway - i have now tried the SD Boot option.

fans are quiet, yellow 'ready' led is blinking 2 times

nothing else

did you reconfigure your pool after SD recovery?

[edgar]

@edgar, @thomas_s please contact support after the weekend.

do you mean tomorrow? (Sunday)

On my last attempt (#13) after a prolonged off period, i did get the alternating (xmas) leds

upon removal of the sd card & powering off/on - i am back to noisy fans and zero mining.

as though the recovery didnt 'stick'
...
...
...

ive tried 3 more since writing that - no joy at all

My guess is some management board problem. Yes, Sunday. It's 2 days from now for us.

my mistake, it feels like a saturday here.


anyway - i have now tried the SD Boot option.

fans are quiet, yellow 'ready' led is blinking 2 times

nothing else

did you reconfigure your pool after SD recovery?

hey zvi,

thanks for your time.

i did half a dozen more recoveries, reformatted the sd 3 times

eventually, after NOT switching off after recovery SD insertion it finally held after 'xmas lite' power cycle.

only then [17 hrs later] was i able to access the UI at all - and did indeed reconfig it all.

all is good

hope thomas_s gets his sorted...

[aclass]

Any idea what is the MAX load of the fan controller on a SP20?

[TheRealSteve]

In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.

Looking forward to more information on this as well, especially as you're referring to an on-silicon solution for a problem that could (arguably should) be tackled in software (for the most part).  Regardless, kudos to you for planning to release it as open source (and presumably royalty-free).

[MrTeal]

It's collusion, and depending on how it's done it can definitely be illegal.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/multimillion-dollar-settlements-reached-in-lcd-price-fixing-class-action-1.2000656

Then OPEC must be carrying this illegal activity for several decades. And FED is the banking alliance to control and fix the price of the dollar for more than 100 years

There are a lot of people that do think OPEC is illegal, and the US Congress has rumbled every once in awhile about declaring it so. The Fed example is silly, that is not companies in an open market colluding to fix prices.

All the DRAM manufacturers could say "OPEC! The FED!" until they're blue in the face. It didn't stop them from getting hit with hundreds of millions in fines for price fixing.

Actually, the FED is structured as 12 <ahem> PRIVATE banks. It is indeed price fixing in the closest to an open market there is outside of the "black" markets. It is probably the most protected monopoly in the world, currently, with the real, if not legal, power to tell it's supposed masters to get bent when they demand accountability.

The difference is the FED was established by an act of Congress. It's not supposed to be an open market.

[Spondoolies-Tech]

In addition, we're working on a way to provide cryptographic proof of hash-rate without interrupting customer contract hashing.
If we'll implement both features successfully (our target is to do it in our 4th gen), we intend to contribute it as an open source Verilog implementation to allow other HW manufacturers to integrate them into their ASICs as well.

Looking forward to more information on this as well, especially as you're referring to an on-silicon solution for a problem that could (arguably should) be tackled in software (for the most part).  Regardless, kudos to you for planning to release it as open source (and presumably royalty-free).

- Locking the ASIC to a specific customer until a specific block height - open source Verilog, royalties free.

- Split mining (to allow uncrackable rev-share - if someone read it here for the first time, please go to original post first) - close source hardware implementation.

- Cryptographic proof of hash-rate - should be open source, royalties free. We're still researching the best method to do it.

Guy