[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[jtoomim]

I'm ready to order two SP30's however am somewhat confused on the power requirments for the units.. When I look at the pic and try to understand the tech docs these look like two standard server Power Supplies with a 110 plug.. At my rack I have 4 20 amp circuits with the standard american wall outlet .. So, if I understand this right I can plug each PSU into its own 110 circuit and I should be OK >? Does this sound correct ? I have to wait 4 business days for my ACH transfer to complete so I have time to work this out.. Also I will be using Bitcoin to buy, so once I make the purchase will the first block confirmation put me on the list for the September delivery batch ? I'm really excited about getting these two units and look forward to testing them out for the users who frequent my site and IRC chat.. I have a lot of people asking about the units, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible .

You will see a performance penalty for running an SP30 on 110V or 120V. That performance penalty will likely be about 7% to 13%. I strongly recommend you either wire up a few 230V or 208V outlets for your miners, or use a hosting service that provides 200+V. If your electricity is above $0.10/kWh where you are, you may even find that using a proper hosting service saves you money on power, in addition to giving you extra GH/s. But maybe I'm biased, because I'm a hosting provider myself. Anyway, the directory of hosts is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.220

If you insist on running your SP30 on 110V, you will find that each SP30 requires its own 20 amp circuit. I've been able to run mine on 15 amp circuits as long as those circuits didn't have anything else on them, but the margin before circuit breakers tripping was small, and that was at 122V not 110V. You will not be able to run more than two SP30s on four 20A circuits, although you might also be able to stick an Antminer on each circuit if you're lucky.

My SP30 gets about 4.1 TH/s when running on 122V, and about 4.5 TH/s on 230V.

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[jtoomim]

Well 3kW/2U is pretty much the maximum reasonable density for air-cooling.

I disagree.

With enough airflow that should be achievable through free-air cooling aswell, if each rack gets ventilated above ~9000cfm and good hot-aisle containment (and air removal) is in place.

Aren't you German? You have no excuse for using CFM. Use some reasonable units, like m^3/s (which would be 4.25) or even m^3/hr (which would be 15300).

Anyway, I find it funny that you use that airflow rate, since that's almost exactly what my DC is specced for.

Let's say you've got 40U of SP30s in a rack. That's 60 kW. 60 kW is 60 kJ/s.

The volumetric heat capacity of air is about 1.21 kJ/m^3/°C. If you have 4.25 m^3/s of air, that's 4.25 * 1.21 = 5.14 kJ/s/°C.

If you divide your power by your airflow, you get a ΔT of 60 (kJ/s) / 5.14 (kJ/s/°C) = 11.7 °C. This means you have enough airflow so that the exhaust air is only 11.7°C above the temperature of the intake air.

Right now, my SP30 is running with a ΔT of about 38°C when running in an air-conditioned room all by itself. If your DC's fans are pumping enough air for a ΔT of 11.7°C, you are supplying 3.26 times as much air as your SP30s need or are designed to use. You could either use 1/3.26 as much airflow for that much power, or you could cool 3.26 times as much power with that airflow. If Spondoolies or someone else made a miner with 10 kW per 2U that could tolerate a ΔT of 38°C, then 4.25 m^/s or 9000 cfm would be just about right.

You could also just use that much airflow without increasing your loads, and then the ASICs in the back of your miner would end up being (38°C - 12°C) = 26°C cooler. This is what my DC design does.

[jimmothy]

Well 3kW/2U is pretty much the maximum reasonable density for air-cooling.

I disagree.

If Spondoolies or someone else made a miner with 10 kW per 2U that could tolerate a ΔT of 38°C, then 4.25 m^/s or 9000 cfm would be just about right.

You could also just use that much airflow without increasing your loads, and then the ASICs in the back of your miner would end up being (38°C - 12°C) = 26°C cooler. This is what my DC design does.

If an SP30, using 4 of the most powerful 80mm fans, can cool 3kw with a dT of 38C, how do you propose you can cool 10kw in the same container?

How can your DC bring the dT down to 12C if the machines are limited to ~400cfm?

[dropt]

How can your DC bring the dT down to 12C if the machines are limited to ~400cfm?

Generate a tonne of negative pressure at the hot side of the unit and forget about your little puny fans.

[Collider]

How can your DC bring the dT down to 12C if the machines are limited to ~400cfm?

Generate a tonne of negative pressure at the hot side of the unit and forget about your little puny fans.

While at the same time generating tons of overpressure in the cold aisle using a gas with higher thermal conductivity than air?

I think "tons of negative pressure" are a really hard to realize idea, you would also need to seal off the tiny holes between sp30s and racks to achieve this effectively.

It would mean such high building cost that going with immersion cooling would actually be cheaper.

[dropt]

How can your DC bring the dT down to 12C if the machines are limited to ~400cfm?

Generate a tonne of negative pressure at the hot side of the unit and forget about your little puny fans.

While at the same time generating tons of overpressure in the cold aisle using a gas with higher thermal conductivity than air?

I think "tons of negative pressure" are a really hard to realize idea, you would also need to seal off the tiny holes between sp30s and racks to achieve this effectively.

It would mean such high building cost that going with immersion cooling would actually be cheaper.

Yes, sorry.  My comment was more meant to be a sarcastic reply to jimmoty's continued shit parade.

[zvisha]

I moved my SP30 around within one room the evening of the day before yesterday (about 36 hours ago), and the result was instability at the 1190W/1170W I had it at. I had to drop the limits on each PSU by about 70 W in order to regain stability. The issue appeared to be that both power supplies had become more susceptible to overheating. I don't know why performance decreased so much with such a small move (about 6 feet). My rough visual evaluation is that the new location should have slightly better airflow than the old. Intake temperatures are measured as being about the same, too. One of the PSUs is on a different electrical circuit (fed by a different breaker), but it's the same voltage as before, and it's fed by the same transformer (although possibly a different winding or a different part of the same winding).

Anyway, I currently have my PSUs limited at 1125 W (top) and 1105 W (bottom). Hashrate is about 4046 GH/s. I might be able to squeeze a few more watts out of each, but I don't have time to play that game right now. Maybe later. I'm curious to find out why the available performance dropped. Maybe it was airflow, or maybe it was a change in the thermal conductivity of the case to the steel stuff I had it sitting on before.

It should be fine, in 110V the unit should not 'learn'.
You can always 'delete' learning by setting PSU limit back to 1360 watt in case it did - the unit will learn again.
You can also disable learning by setting unit to safe number like 1300 watt.

This means that if you set the limit on the PSUs too high on 120V, you just get rapid PSU overloads, and your hashrate suffers horribly. Careful, all you other 120Volters.

Thanks for the notice. The power limit for Emerson is now set to 1100W, which is consistent with the 120 limit we seen in our labs and passes FCC. If one does not 'hack' the FW to ignore power limits, one should be OK.

[Epoch]

Thanks for the notice. The power limit for Emerson is now set to 1100W, which is consistent with the 120 limit we seen in our labs and passes FCC. If one does not 'hack' the FW to ignore power limits, one should be OK.

Are you implying that power limits are (or should be) set differently for 120V and 208V/240V?

[zvisha]

Thanks for the notice. The power limit for Emerson is now set to 1100W, which is consistent with the 120 limit we seen in our labs and passes FCC. If one does not 'hack' the FW to ignore power limits, one should be OK.

Are you implying that power limits are (or should be) set differently for 120V and 208V/240V?

No, it's done by the FW.  jtoomim changed the SP30 FW to pull more from the AC2DC, it worked OK in one socket but didn't work in another, so he had to set it back.

[Grix]

What's stopping people from placing their miners outside, under a small waterproof protection structure or something?  
No noise that you can hear, constant decent ambient temperature without having to buy coolers, etc. It's perfect!

[Bicknellski]

What's stopping people from placing their miners outside, under a small waterproof protection structure or something?  
No noise that you can hear, constant decent ambient temperature without having to buy coolers, etc. It's perfect!

Theft... flooding... condensation... etc

[gallery2000]

What's stopping people from placing their miners outside, under a small waterproof protection structure or something?  
No noise that you can hear, constant decent ambient temperature without having to buy coolers, etc. It's perfect!

Electrocution?  
Bird poops on it?

[ukzerosniper]

Could someone post a video of the sp30 running, and maybe an unboxing video?

[Collider]

Could someone post a video of the sp30 running, and maybe an unboxing video?

There isn´t too much in the package, it comes wit adapter cables for PSU (which you still need your country-specific PSU cables for), rackmount ears and the miner itself, all snuggly fitted into a protected cardboard box.

The miner itself is slightly less loud than the sp10, and the noise is less whiny.
(The sp10 is so loud on turbo that you DONT want to have it in your house, unless you can put it somewhere in the cellar)

[Collider]

@jtoomim

I stated that it is possible (and quite an achievement actually) to cool full racks of sp30s with free air-cooling, so why are you arguing with me?

It is good to see that your airflow numbers seem to match mine. (and that there is a significant safety margin)


I think it would be quite impractical to do even higher densities, as space would be cheaper than the added cooling (aka airflow) on a small area.

It might be possible to achieve even more than 60kW per rack, but nobody needs to do it right now, so why do it?

[boscocoin]

Hi There,

I'm new to Bitcoin mining. I ordered a unit from China but it came with many faults to i'm returning it and looking to get the new SP30. I have a few questions which I e-mailed directly to the company but received no reply. Would anyone help me with the following questions.

- If I ordered the item next week would you still ship the item to me in September?
- Do you accept bank wire payment from London
- How is the on-going support if there are any damages while shipping the item to London
I'm asking this because I had a miner shipped from China which came damaged and then could not refund the item.
- Can I plug the miner into the normal UK power supply? 240v? Or will I need a step down transformer?
- Does the item come with warranty?
- What is the cost of the duty when the item arrives in London?
- How long will it take for the SP30 to come to London?
- If there are any faults after delivered will you take the item back under your own shipping costs and repair the item and send it back all inclusive?
- Finally when I go into the payment section it's asking whether I want hosting too? What is this hosting for?

Sorry for the overload of questions. I just want to be clear before jumping into this investment.

Thanks,
Charles

[Collider]

- If I ordered the item next week would you still ship the item to me in September? -yes if the september batch hasn´t been sold out yet
- Do you accept bank wire payment from London - yes, sepa payments are available
- How is the on-going support if there are any damages while shipping the item to London -90 days warranty period (also covers psu defects and other unlikely problems)
I'm asking this because I had a miner shipped from China which came damaged and then could not refund the item.
- Can I plug the miner into the normal UK power supply? 240v? Or will I need a step down transformer? -240V is datacenter standard and is in fact recommended for the sp30
- Does the item come with warranty? yes, see above
- What is the cost of the duty when the item arrives in London? -no duty, only your local VAT
- How long will it take for the SP30 to come to London? -2-3 days from time of shipment (dhl express delivery)
- If there are any faults after delivered will you take the item back under your own shipping costs and repair the item and send it back all inclusive? -covered by warranty
- Finally when I go into the payment section it's asking whether I want hosting too? What is this hosting for? -if you do not want or have the ability to host the unit at home, this might be a cheaper option for you

You can also choose to host the miner at another facility, and have spondoolies ship the miner there.
Hosting might actually be cheaper than running your miner at home (due to higher power costs in the UK +~20%VAT when importing).
Prices for hosting start at around 110$/kW/m and drop until around 70$/kW/m for one year contracts.

Feel free to pm me your local power costs and I can help you find a hosting solution.

[boscocoin]

Thank you Collider for the fast reply.

Going back to the points..
- So when the item arrives in London I don't have to pay duty to DHL?
- If i'm paying VAT do I pay that to DHL or my local accountant.

- In regards to hosting. Does this mean that when I purchase the item they will not send it to me.. They will run it from their own site and mine for me?
  Please clarify this. Thank you

- If I ordered the item next week would you still ship the item to me in September? -yes if the september batch hasn´t been sold out yet
- Do you accept bank wire payment from London - yes, sepa payments are available
- How is the on-going support if there are any damages while shipping the item to London -90 days warranty period (also covers psu defects and other unlikely problems)
I'm asking this because I had a miner shipped from China which came damaged and then could not refund the item.
- Can I plug the miner into the normal UK power supply? 240v? Or will I need a step down transformer? -240V is datacenter standard and is in fact recommended for the sp30
- Does the item come with warranty? yes, see above
- What is the cost of the duty when the item arrives in London? -no duty, only your local VAT
- How long will it take for the SP30 to come to London? -2-3 days from time of shipment (dhl express delivery)
- If there are any faults after delivered will you take the item back under your own shipping costs and repair the item and send it back all inclusive? -covered by warranty
- Finally when I go into the payment section it's asking whether I want hosting too? What is this hosting for? -if you do not want or have the ability to host the unit at home, this might be a cheaper option for you

Sorry for the overload of questions. I just want to be clear before jumping into this investment.

Thanks,
Charles

[Collider]

Thank you Collider for the fast reply.

Going back to the points..
- So when the item arrives in London I don't have to pay duty to DHL?
- If i'm paying VAT do I pay that to DHL or my local accountant.

- In regards to hosting. Does this mean that when I purchase the item they will not send it to me.. They will run it from their own site and mine for me?
  Please clarify this. Thank you

- You don´t have to pay duty, but you do have to pay ~20% VAT to DHL (they then send that money to the relevant authority).
  
-Very similar to normal hosting e.g for a server, you pay the hosting company to provide power, space, cooling and internet access for your miner.
 So yes, the miner runs from their own site and you own and control it.
 Once you decide to take delivery of your miner, you can tell them to send it to you. (or to another hosting provider, a buyer of that hardware....)

Please keep in mind that the hosting offered by spondoolies is not meant to be a permanent solution, as it is quite costly.
There are datacenters all around the world that take sp30s, and they are usually cheaper.

You do not have to decide to have your unit hosted right now, you can still make changes in September.

[adam3us]

- So when the item arrives in London I don't have to pay duty to DHL?
- If i'm paying VAT do I pay that to DHL or my local accountant.

As someone who used to live in the UK and did the odd bit of ebay buying internationally: I dont think there's duty on UK import.  You do get charged VAT by DHL. 
I have found some of the shipping companies charge you a fiver on top for the "service" of collecting the VAT fee off you.

- In regards to hosting. Does this mean that when I purchase the item they will not send it to me.. They will run it from their own site and mine for me?

Right.  I have some SP10 I bought and they are hosted I think in Israel.  I think they have multiple hosting locations in different countries.

I think also if you pick out your own 3rd party hosting they presumably will ship it direct to your hosting co.  For US and some other places there is no import nor sales tax/VAT hit on import of computer equipment, so it can be worth it just for that if you live in europe with the dreaded VAT.

Or maybe in UK you can voluntarily register for VAT, claim the VAT back, and sell the bitcoins without charging VAT (because they are now VAT exempt).  You'd have to research that one a bit

Adam