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Author Topic: Bitcoin: The Social Phenomenon  (Read 1319 times)
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January 09, 2020, 03:13:48 PM
 #21

The thing for me that makes Bitcoin so powerful is that it is universally known as the face of the cryptocurrency economy. It crosses all country boundaries and is independent of corporations and governments.
bitcoin does not depend on anyone and free bitcoin can not be controlled, and that makes bitcoin very strong and very difficult to be dropped by people or institutions. maybe price movements can go up and down but people's trust in bitcoin remains good.

 
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January 10, 2020, 07:58:52 AM
Merited by nullius (4)
 #22

I think that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can become a whole lot more social if companies that specialize in social media like Facebook or twitter get involved. Facebook is poised to launch its Libra platform and Libra stablecoin that could potentially revolutionize the way that we interact with cryptocurrency. As of now cryptocurrency is limited to those who are technically literate but platforms like Libra will simplify the process making adoption more widespread and accessible.

Libra, by design, is not a decentralized cryptocurrency. It is a centrally controlled, FIAT based, distributed ledger technology.



There's nothing exciting about Libra. It's a digital version of the Federal Reserve, but controlled by the tech-corporations who want to truly rule the world instead of the big banks.

I believe there was a saying about controlling a nation's currency, to control the nation.

Back to topic, chaoscoinz didn't get what social consensus means. The success of this is the best example of social consensus, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1805060.0

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January 12, 2020, 11:28:56 AM
Merited by nullius (1)
 #23

The value of things is NOT the value of production. It is your perceived value, how useful it is to you in your context and moment. Your smartphone (depleted battery) vs water in a desert, or refrigerators in the north pole.

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

I don't agree with medium. I'd rather not go offsite to read and comment on articles.

This is one of the main understandings of irrational theory that people simply refuse to understand. That value, while generally following a thread of logic, also can be completely based on what might appear to be nothing to the rational observer.

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).

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January 13, 2020, 05:48:31 AM
 #24

The value of things is NOT the value of production. It is your perceived value, how useful it is to you in your context and moment. Your smartphone (depleted battery) vs water in a desert, or refrigerators in the north pole.

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

I don't agree with medium. I'd rather not go offsite to read and comment on articles.

This is one of the main understandings of irrational theory that people simply refuse to understand. That value, while generally following a thread of logic, also can be completely based on what might appear to be nothing to the rational observer.

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).


But no two networks are the same. I'm talking about finality.

A Bitcoin confirmation is worth more/more secure than a confirmation on another network/blockchain. Plus Bitcoin has the most competent developers in the world of cryptocurrency development in my opinion.

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January 13, 2020, 06:06:34 AM
 #25

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

exactly. the only reason why people started looking at irrelevant things to speculate the value is that they couldn't predict the bitcoin price so they needed things like hashrate that could be measured.
but what they forget is that miners are workers that are getting paid. if the economy is good their check is fatter so more workers are sign up for employment and if the economy is bad their check shrinks so some of them quit their job.
in the end the economy is there. bitcoin continues providing its utilities whether the employees are getting paid a lot or a little.

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January 16, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Merited by nullius (5)
 #26

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).

Which is why we ideally need to steer the conversation with the general public more towards the tangible benefits they can gain from actually using Bitcoin, rather than the fiat money they may or may not make speculating with it.

The only "reason" prices move like they do is that markets are fickle and traders are seemingly quite susceptible to hype and FOMO.  It doesn't really make a lot of sense and it's certainly not very easy to explain to the uninitiated masses in simple terms.

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January 17, 2020, 01:12:35 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #27

You may dislike me, you may disagree with me, you may condemn me—you may even decide that you hate me.  But we both agree that Bitcoin has value; and Bitcoin itself is absolutely unbiased between us. *snip*

There are actually people who think that bitcoin "has no value"; and one of the most famous people who thinks that, well, we all know the dude:


The good thing though, is that it doesn't matter that he thinks! The market decided(via supply and demand) that the current price is $8100(as we speak), so it doesn't matter if he thinks bitcoin has no value! It's one of the beauties of open markets.


The same thing can actually be said of gold, that is if people will decide that it has no value then the demand for it will plummet and its corresponding value can be reduced a lot. This same principle is operating with Bitcoin and that is the fact. It is the people who are deciding what an asset will have value and how much is the value that people will be accepting. Of course, there are many factors and principles at play here.

What OP presented here is actually (or should be) an eye-opener to all of us even including people who are into Bitcoin but are still doubting on its value and its future. Bitcoin is empowering all of us but things are on our hands...we have the power to make it worthless or we can make it truly valuable as it should be.

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January 17, 2020, 08:04:17 AM
 #28

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

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January 17, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
 #29

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.
Everyone is pretty much into bitcoin investment honestly. Sure there might be people who are against bitcoin's ways and more probably are not really impressed or interested on bitcoin's abilities but everyone has this desire in them. The only thing that drawing them back is their mindset. Glad that a lot of people are slowly coming out of their shells and are making their way little by little in the cryptocurrency world.

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January 17, 2020, 04:03:09 PM
 #30

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.
Everyone is pretty much into bitcoin investment honestly. Sure there might be people who are against bitcoin's ways and more probably are not really impressed or interested on bitcoin's abilities but everyone has this desire in them. The only thing that drawing them back is their mindset. Glad that a lot of people are slowly coming out of their shells and are making their way little by little in the cryptocurrency world.
Trading, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in demand for those people who are interested with these things most especially when they know the benefits that they can get and they can earn. Most of the people refuse to believe in this kind of job because their first impression to it is its a scam because their people against to the crypto world most especially in bitcoin thats why they kept on discouraging other people from joining here in crypto world.
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January 17, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
 #31

Do you think that something as phenomenal as bitcoin in the financial sphere is waiting for us in the future?
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January 17, 2020, 05:08:33 PM
 #32

Do you think that something as phenomenal as bitcoin in the financial sphere is waiting for us in the future?

Bitcoin is in the financial sphere... and bitcoin is the thing that you have been waiting for.  If you are trying to refer to some other nonsense such as defi phoney baloney then you should be considering that those systems are better built upon bitcoin, to the extent that they are going to be secure.

In other words, Bitcoin is the change that you have been waiting for.. so it is just a matter of building upon bitcoin.  Don't get me wrong, I am NOT completely denigrating the various innovations on a variety of shitcoins, including the various projects on ethereum, but we should be attempting to keep our eyes on the prize (which is bitcoin) and understand a lot of those projects to be serving as mere testing grounds to the extent that they might either be added to bitcoin or perhaps become some second or third layer appendage to bitcoin... They are not the innovation in themselves, which is bitcoin and bitcoin's security and resolution of the double spend problem through proof of work and other already existing bitcoin protocol dynamics.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 17, 2020, 05:31:57 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #33

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.
As we adopt many new technologies and innovations in our daily living same is the case with the Bitcoin. It is also one the best invention made by the human minds. Instead of focusing on the risky part if you put your focus on its value and the benefits it offer, you will surely realize its value. It is the best investment method that traders should adopt for good earning.

 
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January 17, 2020, 06:04:37 PM
Merited by Heisenberg_Hunter (1)
 #34

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Why you guys are always mixing "Bitcoin" and "investment". From a currency decentralized it's now an online investment with people hoping to become rich... Undecided using centralized companies on the top of that. If a day the price goes down to $1 they will disappear. People who truly need to use Bitcoin as a payment mean will stay.
Decentralization or not, people don't care anymore, cryptography or not people don't give a shit, privacy or not doesn't matter.
From the xxx,xxx transactions daily, most of them are related to trading activity, how many are for the real uses cases.

I don't want to be an investor, I want to be someone who uses Bitcoin to buy this or that because I don't have other alternatives. If I want to play the investor game I go to buy an apartment and rent it to someone. If I want to gamble I go to buy a scratch ticket at 1€, it costs me less than a Bitcoin and I have probably more lucks to become "rich" if I buy many.

I truly think that the 'investor' mentality refrain Bitcoin to evolves indirectly

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January 17, 2020, 06:16:32 PM
Merited by LeGaulois (1)
 #35

Quote
The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is  definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Why you guys are always mixing "Bitcoin" and "investment". From a currency decentralized it's now an online investment with people hoping to become rich... Undecided using centralized companies on the top of that. If a day the price goes down to $1 they will disappear. People who truly need to use Bitcoin as a payment mean will stay.
Decentralization or not, people don't care anymore, cryptography or not people don't give a shit, privacy or not doesn't matter.
From the xxx,xxx transactions daily, most of them are related to trading activity, how many are for the real uses cases.

I don't want to be an investor, I want to be someone who uses Bitcoin to buy this or that because I don't have other alternatives. If I want to play the investor game I go to buy an apartment and rent it to someone. If I want to gamble I go to buy a scratch ticket at 1€, it costs me less than a Bitcoin and I have probably more lucks to become "rich" if I buy many.

I truly think that the 'investor' mentality refrain Bitcoin to evolves indirectly

Do you really believe that any one person can assert what bitcoin is good for and  what it is not good for?

In the end, each person who gets involved in bitcoin decides for himself/herself (and even institutions and governments) regarding whether to get involved in bitcoin, which ways they believe bitcoin can serve them and how much to get involved.  Speculation and/or investment seems overlap at least a few of the seven network effects (referring to trace mayer's outline here), and even if someone considers personal utility of bitcoin versus the utility that others might get from bitcoin, that is going to affect the persons perception of both present value and future value.

For example, someone in the more developed world might have a lot of access to a variety of means to transact, and they really have hardly any actual use for bitcoin, but that should not necessarily stop that same person to decide to buy into bitcoin as an investment based on perceptions regarding other use cases that others have and therefore speculate and invest into bitcoin regarding those perceptions of present or future utility.

You cannot really get away from either speculation and/or investment with any asset and it seems to be one of the more base level of the network effects.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 17, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
 #36

...

OK, you got a point, but still:

If I take the tweet posted on the Seven Network Effects and more precisely with merchants and consumers. How are we supposed to increase the mass adoption concerning them if speculation is taking over merchants and consumers? Bitcoin is known as an investment and not an alternative currency.

A merchant will tell you he wants to be paid with money, not with stock option and he won't bother to look closely at it. No matter if you explain he can save on the fees charged by Visa card. Try yourself to talk with a merchant, he'll laugh, and he'll tell you he's not gonna bother where there's no demand. 1 consumer every 6 months interested to pay with bitcoins, yahoo!

Speculation is also the reason why administrations and governments start to bother us with regulations. It started to come at the same time around 2016.
What's the goal to create a digital currency decentralized if, in the end, we have the same problems, better to go back to fiat.

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January 18, 2020, 12:23:16 AM
 #37

...

OK, you got a point, but still:

If I take the tweet posted on the Seven Network Effects and more precisely with merchants and consumers. How are we supposed to increase the mass adoption concerning them if speculation is taking over merchants and consumers? Bitcoin is known as an investment and not an alternative currency.


I doubt that we really need to worry or to rush into mass adoption, because bitcoin seems to serve its sound money design objective. If you have a money that is more sound than gold, then value is going to flow into bitcoin with the passage of time.  There seems to be little to no need to get all worried about whether I can spend my bitcoins today in the USA to buy coffee or whatever other small to medium sized transactions.

There are a lot of bitcoin naysayers or altcoin pumpers who engage in ongoing vague criticisms of bitcoin suggesting that bitcoin is not providing enough utility and accordingly suggesting that bitcoin is broken in some kind of way that urgently needs to be fixed, and I really  doubt that there is much if any basis in those kinds of claims because they seem to be built upon weak premises, suggesting that bitcoin is broken or deficient in some kind of way.

Speculation and investing seems to be a kind of necessity, and even if it was not specifically outlined by Satoshi, such dynamics underly ongoing adoption, which seems to me to be going at a sufficiently rapid pace.  There seems to me to be little to no need to rush adoption because it is ongoingly building sufficiently enough.  Bitcoin is getting into the consciousness of more and more people including financial people who want to short the fuck out of bitcoin, but bitcoin still keeps growing even while more financial instruments (that allow shorting) are building up around it.

Sure, if you have your skepticisms of bitcoin, then maybe you are not going to invest as much into it because you believe that there is something that is NOT quite right with bitcoin, and that choice is up to you. 

To me, it seems that bitcoin remains a sufficiently great asymmetric bet, but there are a whole hell-of-a-lot of people who don't even know what bitcoin is, even if they have heard the name, or they misunderstand what it is, because they heard that it was used by criminals or that it's CEO was arrested, but Lindy effect still suggests that the longer that bitcoin is around and holding a value the longer that people are going to recognize its value and with bitcoin's sound money and various metcalfe's law principles, there is no real reason that value will not continue to flow into bitcoin.. and cause more and more momentum into it, whether anyone markets bitcoin or not also it does not matter that a variety of shitcoins are creating budgets for themselves to market against bitcoin, the value is still going to flow into bitcoin, and sure it could take a decent amount of time to have large and widespread use, like you seem to be suggesting should already exist. 

A merchant will tell you he wants to be paid with money, not with stock option and he won't bother to look closely at it.

Up to them, if they want to accept bitcoin or not.  I don't give any shits if they don't want to accept bitcoin, I will pay with dollars or credit cards or whatever.  Along with Greshams law, it is better for me to use the least valuable means of payment first.  I will pay with Bcash, if I had it and they would take it.

No matter if you explain he can save on the fees charged by Visa card.

I don't think that we need to attempt to convince them.  If they want to take it, they will.

Try yourself to talk with a merchant, he'll laugh, and he'll tell you he's not gonna bother where there's no demand. 1 consumer every 6 months interested to pay with bitcoins, yahoo!

I agree merchant adoption has been pretty low... lightning network might help in that direction in the future.  I don't feel any rush to pay merchants.


Speculation is also the reason why administrations and governments start to bother us with regulations. It started to come at the same time around 2016.
What's the goal to create a digital currency decentralized if, in the end, we have the same problems, better to go back to fiat.

governments have a variety of reasons in the way that they might get involved in bitcoin or crypto currencies.  In early 2014, in the USA
there was guidance from the IRS to treat bitcoin as capital gains.. so that discouraged using BTC for payments in the USA.  That might be a problem with lightning network too, in terms of getting people to spend their BTC in some jurisdictions.  In the end, bitcoin is multi-jurisdictional too, so if there are major fears of regulatory effects on BTC, those need to be considered in terms of the world-wide phenomenon of bitcoin, so even if some jurisdictions might attempt to crack down harder on bitcoin, they might also have to back down on their cracking down if it might be causing them some disadvantages in terms of bitcoin development going to other locations.. so various governments have to account for the multi-jurisdictional aspect of bitcoin and including ONLY so much that they can control, such as on-ramps and off-ramps.. but perhaps difficulties of controlling inside bitcoin.

Overall, I see you trying to paint bitcoin as having some kinds of problems or deficiencies, and I am a bit unclear why you are doing that?  You don't see any value in BTC?  How about being able to hold and retain value and to transfer that value anywhere in the world at any time without permission, is that valuable to you?  Do you believe that some kind of payments emphasis is better? Those are bcash (aka shitcoin) talking points that are largely bullshit, no?

Do you think that there is something wrong with where bitcoin's price is currently and where it seems likely to go?  There are BTC price prediction models such as: 1) the stock to flow model, 2) the four-year fractal model, 3) network effects (like I already mentioned) and 4) other similar sound money, adoption and Lindy Effects models that suggest our future BTC price direction to remain quite bullish and based on scarcity consideration.  Do you think that there are problems with the models or the direction of BTC prices based on some of these kinds sound money considerations?

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 18, 2020, 05:50:19 AM
 #38

It's really an awkward thing when people say Bitcoin hasn't stored a value which is really a ridiculous thing, It's not that thing that they have any belief on this system it's just the lack of communication, I think if they get proper knowledge about Bitcoin and it's growth then they might be passionate to this profitable platform if Bitcoin and cryptocurrency would get more accepted then the proper education based on blockchain system should be spread out, without proper education, nothing can be changed, so we should pay heed on the route of our society, I am sure it will work.



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January 18, 2020, 04:11:14 PM
 #39

It's really an awkward thing when people say Bitcoin hasn't stored a value which is really a ridiculous thing, It's not that thing that they have any belief on this system it's just the lack of communication, I think if they get proper knowledge about Bitcoin and it's growth then they might be passionate to this profitable platform if Bitcoin and cryptocurrency would get more accepted then the proper education based on blockchain system should be spread out, without proper education, nothing can be changed, so we should pay heed on the route of our society, I am sure it will work.
We can think of the ways through which we can create awareness among people about this grand technology. We can spread information to our family members, friends. We can also use social media as a biggest tool for creating awareness, by sharing our positive experiences. This will make people aware about the value of Bitcoin, they will stop believing on rumors and random posts and will come forward to invest in this market.

 
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January 18, 2020, 04:29:24 PM
 #40

It's really an awkward thing when people say Bitcoin hasn't stored a value which is really a ridiculous thing, It's not that thing that they have any belief on this system it's just the lack of communication, I think if they get proper knowledge about Bitcoin and it's growth then they might be passionate to this profitable platform if Bitcoin and cryptocurrency would get more accepted then the proper education based on blockchain system should be spread out, without proper education, nothing can be changed, so we should pay heed on the route of our society, I am sure it will work.
We can think of the ways through which we can create awareness among people about this grand technology. We can spread information to our family members, friends. We can also use social media as a biggest tool for creating awareness, by sharing our positive experiences. This will make people aware about the value of Bitcoin, they will stop believing on rumors and random posts and will come forward to invest in this market.
introducing people closest to you might be better because we can monitor them when it is already running in the industry, besides introducing this technology we can also control them so they are not trapped in fraudulent projects and keep them safe in the industry.

 
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