Regarding Steamtyme's list of competitive hardware

[abeandund]

It would be beneficial to include for home miners which models have low power settings.  A 2.5-3 kw miner can be used in home/hobby setting with a low power mode.  Power input voltage is also handy as quick reference on a list since some mfg's require 220v and other list 185~285V. 

With that being said, I would request a separate thread on voltage regulation.  I recall Phil had mentioned, think it was s15 thread Norstar Power Converter with Voltage Stabilizer and a Larson Buck/Boost Step-Down Transformer as options but have seen a follow up as far as functionality or durablity.

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[mikeywith]

we have discussed a similar topic "Bitmain & Canaan To Release 5nm chip ASIC Miners in Q1 2020".

Based on the alleged 20% power reduction on the new 5nm based gears, I imaged something like this at first:

Code:

S19 >   52th at  2080w
S19e>  64th at   2300w
S19+>  75th at  2800w

After giving it a second thought, I think even those numbers are too high for home miners, so probably those numbers need to be cut in half, and we get something like:

Code:

S19 >   26th at  1040w
S19e>  32th at   1150w
S19+>  37th at  1600w

The problem with making smaller mining gears (aside from what others have mentioned) is the base cost, they will still need the same control board and other components for all miners' sizes. I think moving to home scale mining gears will be forced upon all mining manufacturers pretty soon, every halving is going to be more harsh than the previous one, and I don't think that BTC price is going to follow to fill the gap.

Having said that, there is really nothing we can do for now but "hope", and maybe by 2024 or at worst case scenario 2028 industrial mining will come to an end, making a room for home miners to take control.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

With that being said, I would request a separate thread on voltage regulation.  I recall Phil had mentioned, think it was s15 thread Norstar Power Converter with Voltage Stabilizer and a Larson Buck/Boost Step-Down Transformer as options but have seen a follow up as far as functionality or durablity.

Of course this sorta should have it's own thread but - in reality few folks use AC voltage regulators.

That said, ANY buck-boost transformer that is designed & intended for industrial use (like the ones from Larson) should last for at least several decades even when ran at 100% load. It's just the nature of the beasts.

Consumer types such as this are utter crap! Long long a go I tried a few different types and despite being ran at about 50% of their 'rated 3kw' load all crispy-fried themselves in about 1 month. Upon doing forensics it became obvious why: a. the core is too small causing excessive eddy current loses, b. the wire used in them is far too thin leading to even more losses and the windings getting very hot.

As for regulators: Biggest thing is that they MUST use fully electronic control for adjusting the output voltage (like the Norstar's) or drive a variac to do it. Lower cost tap-switching units cannot be used as they all momentarily drop to 0v out during the switching process. Ja it is only for a few ms but nonetheless it's a safe bet that the miner PSU will have a problem with it and probably trip a reset.

The only place I use a regulator is at home where the line can have substantial sag during the summer. For that I use Cyberpower's line of dual-conversion UPS's that run AC > DC > DC > AC. Their AC power is always derived using a inverter that directly adjusts the voltage (and freq) so there is zero switching time for voltage adjustment or switching to battery when the power drops out.

[mikeywith]

It's all about the cost, makes no sense to nearly double the ROI of your gears just to avoid a "minimum" risk of using a much cheaper alternative, I have been using some cheap Chinese-made SVRs (voltage regulators - servo motor control) for a long time, and had no problems yet. You can literally here the tap changer every now and then, but it happens too fast the miner's PSU does not power off.

The problem with these cheap stabilizers is the integrity of their marketed specification, I found out that in most cases you will only be able be get 2/3 of what they "promise", so if it has a 20kw lablel, you can really go pass 13kw without burning something.

Below is an example:



This one regulates the voltage between 130v and 250v and output is constant at 220v, they come under different brand names, but they all seem to be the exact same in the inside, it's just the design that differs.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

That ^^ is a perfect example of a regulator that uses a variac (trade-marked name of one make of variable transformer). FWIW 'variac' has become a generic name for them rather like Kleenex became the generic name for facial tissue.

They do not switch between multiple fixed taps, a servo moves a sliding contact over the exposed windings of the transformer so there is no dropouts during adjustment. Und ja - that is a perfect solution that is usually lower cost vs pure electronic regulation. Their only drawback is that along with slower response time, after many years of use the graphite contact brush will eventually wear out and need replacement. Any 'clicks' you are hearing is usually the raise/lower relays operating to drive the motor that moves the sliding contact arm.

[philipma1957]

If you want to home mine in usa.  You want a 800 watt miner
The best thing on the market is a home heater it is not really a miner.

this is it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5152874.0

it does not turn a profit it is primary a heater first a miner second.
it is currently for sale.


The s15  by bitmain set to low speed   was very low power use  around 880 watts  It did 47 watts a th.

No longer made by bitmain  you need to find used ones.

There is a market for a s17 LN model with 2 boards.

27 th at  900 watts at a low speed setting is possible

It would sell at a premium price  people would buy it.

[kano]

I 1kW range/2 kW for 110/220 is still iffy in older construction that has not been updated. Sadly there is a lot of that. Parents house was built in 1970/71 and the wiring in there scares the crap out of me.

If you are building a setup in the garage or shed and bringing in new power I would hope it would be done properly.

-Dave

If your home is not wired up correctly, well, you shouldn't be plugging anything that needs 1kW into it anywhere.

That includes clothes dryers, hair dryers, microwaves and other such things.

[DaveF]

There is a difference between hair dryers / microwaves / blenders / air compressors that run at 12A to 15A for minutes vs something that may run for hours 9A or 10A
Stoves / clothes dryers /etc are on 220 lines that don't suck as bad.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

I have found creeping melt to happen.

lets say we are 60 days into summer. gear is borderline safe wiring.

melted pcie jacks will start to occur.

so the gear worked say

all of  fall
all of winter
all of spring
month two in summer melting happens.

maybe the psu is rated 1600 watts
maybe the volts are 220
maybe the line does 20 amps
your s9 pulls 1300 watts

and creeping melt happens.

most likely volts dropped to 205 due to summer brings amps up and pcie jacks melt.

the l3+ never does this why most likely cause mine pull 725 watts on an apw3+ psu.

uses eight cables for 4 boards each board pulls around 180-185 watts.
each jack does 90-95 watts.

this is a really good safety margin.

yeah i know l3+ is not a btc miner.  but the point i am bringing is a pcie jack at 90-95 watts is very good safety margin..

for a btc miner to run rugged it needs to not tax wires due to voltage drops.

new gear right now i guess the heater from russia. under 800 watts.

the s17pro set to low.
should be safe on 10 amps and 220 volts.
that is about it.

[Biffa]

... Either way the list is simply that a listing of gear available, the forum and it's threads are where people need to make the decision on what they can mine with, how they can mine with it, and what if anything they can do about the decentralization of mining.

It's not "simply" a list though is it,  it's a stickied post that always stays at the top of that section of the forum, so it had more impact than a regular post that can get lost in the SNR odd the rest of the forum.

Also can you add the S17+ to the main list now? It does 40W/Th so is pretty much the second most efficient miner after the S17-Pro.

Its definitely been delivered to customers and is out there in the wild hashing away, I can attest to that.

[kano]

There is a difference between hair dryers / microwaves / blenders / air compressors that run at 12A to 15A for minutes vs something that may run for hours 9A or 10A
Stoves / clothes dryers /etc are on 220 lines that don't suck as bad.

-Dave

Indeed there is a difference, you wont find any blocks with a hair dryer no matter how hard you try nor how off-topic your post is

But if you feel that it's OK to risk living in a house with poor wiring, and use hair dryers and microwaves etc I'd suggest you are stupid.
As I would say about the mod who seems to think that's ok also and keeps meriting you

Though he's only meriting you coz he doesn't like me not being under his tight nazi-control

[Steamtyme]

It's not "simply" a list though is it,  it's a stickied post that always stays at the top of that section of the forum, so it had more impact than a regular post that can get lost in the SNR odd the rest of the forum.
Also can you add the S17+ to the main list now? It does 40W/Th so is pretty much the second most efficient miner after the S17-Pro.
Its definitely been delivered to customers and is out there in the wild hashing away, I can attest to that.

I added the S17+. Feel free to post these sorts of suggestions in that thread or PM I'm always open to making changes.

I will disagree that the list is anything special. While yes it is a stickied post it's only there because it's simply a list of gear with links to where the discussion and information can be found. I try to provide as much information as possible as a cursory glance, which is why I was more than willing to make the change for 3KW+ miners. This is also why Frodocooper goes in there and clearcuts anything that goes outside serving as solely informative or list related.

My comments were more in reference that there was a better place to put information and opinion on what is or isn't useful for a home miner. Like the other sticked topic I have First time/Small miner reference for getting started. This is also a topic I'm more than willing to add information to when people bring it up, as can be seen in the discussion. It's also one where discussion and opinion is useful, and probably a better place for the original posts that were moved to have taken place - if the choice was between the 2.

Though he's only meriting you coz he doesn't like me not being under his tight nazi-control

Really that seams beneath you to try and tie together nazi-control with forum moderation, there are much better ways  that could have been worded. It's not even like he wiped all your comments from the earth he put in the effort to preserve the discussion and move it.
I don't agree with all his moderation choices but this reflects poorly on you and not him.

I added the 3KW tag to the listing.

[kano]

...

Though he's only meriting you coz he doesn't like me not being under his tight nazi-control

Really that seams beneath you to try and tie together nazi-control with forum moderation, there are much better ways  that could have been worded. It's not even like he wiped all your comments from the earth he put in the effort to preserve the discussion and move it.
I don't agree with all his moderation choices but this reflects poorly on you and not him.
...

Heh, too young to know who Seinfeld is and too old to be in that group that now thinks you can say anything

Most people don't agree with his moderation choices - and the fact that he's specifically meriting those replies to me, that only an idiot would merit, is quite clear what he's doing

I pissed him off by reporting him to theymos once ... and theymos looked into it.
... and he doesn't like the fact that I run a pool better than the one he wants the world to mine on

Edit: though I used to help make him a lot of BTC by reporting off topic threads in the mining section all the time.
Maybe it's also to do with coz I don't do that much any more either.
(mods get paid - I always thought that was the reason he edited so many posts)