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Author Topic: Trust System Abuse By Nullius  (Read 4743 times)
amishmanish
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January 30, 2020, 04:49:38 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), nutildah (2), mindrust (1), nullius (1)
 #101

This has all become so absurd. The whole trust picture has become debatable because in the last iteration , Theymos truly "democratized" trust. (probably after changing his own opinion about how "decentralization" is not the answer to everything). That was when we witnessed the mass uprising with all the "oppressed" people red-tagged by Lauda et al coming to realize their strength in numbers.

Suchmoon has clearly stated that he will give trust ratings based only on trade history. Nullius wants trust system to imply trustworthiness in terms of overall judgement and principled behavior. If humans were perfect and we all had the same levels of self-respect, everybody on the forum would be making independent judgement on trust (Whether trade based or opinion based) and it would all come down to a stable equilibrium sans any drama.

What happens in reality is that the world gets divided into camps. There are the ones sticking to their self-held principles/ judgement trying to be the "lonely wolves". They get targeted by the "swarm" of people whose opinions are generally determined and swayed by their common interests on the forum (bounties/ referrals/ earning). Theymos once said that he considers it one of the success stories for the forum that it enables people in developing countries to make money.

The fault with this "principled" side lies that they are too clever for their own good. They are passionate about their quest to clean up and target the scammers. They find people abusing the system and all that righteous fury spills out as colorful, sarcastic language that cuts deep. "Pajeet, Third world bottom feeder, all your cousins and uncles" are the oft-repeated generalizations. When you use that language you risk biasing each and everyone of those people against you.

The swarm on the other hand consists mainly of the followers and a few leaders. These leaders generally have a separate sense of "sharing the goods" which doesn't always matches with the work-ethics of our lonely wolves. The drama in Turkish section is a typical example of this where people actually considered it natural to include their family and exchange trust ratings/ merits to "progress" in the forum. This seems childish to the lone wolf at best and unethical at worst. To the swarm, its just how things work. Through a system of references and propping up one another. The problem with the swarm is when its leaders try to use "democracy" to settle scores. They easily utilize the pain caused by the aforementioned sarcastic insults to target these people.

This has been going on for a long time and I suppose nullius missed a lot of that drama. The trust system has to kindda evolve into a state where the Swarm leaders and lonely wolves can agree to a certain set of ethics. Suchmoon has been through most of that drama and has found refuge into simplifying the system. "Trust is only for trade, easy-peasy". It can only be good that both him and Nullius are being forced into a discussion so we can once again have something more than simple commercial interests drive this forum.

as they mysteriously appeared after very long periods of inactivity with a change in language, demeanor, and suddenly hold all the same opinions of the people listed above.
Nullius may have been inactive for sometime but I have read enough on the forum to know that this allegation of "change in language, demeanor" is pretty juvenile. Nothing has changed with Nullius. He is still the same old difficult and fun to read person that he always was.


PS: I forgot to add, "Win Big with the Lucky Cat"...LOL..Smiley

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January 30, 2020, 05:10:14 PM
Merited by Foxpup (1), Kalemder (1)
 #102

Suchmoon has clearly stated that he will give trust ratings based only on trade history.

Did I? I don't think I did. Actually I'm pretty certain that I didn't say anything particular as to what I would base my trust ratings on.

What I did say is that red trust should adhere to the wording on the trust page, i.e. show that "trading with this person is high-risk". Likewise positive trust should explain why the person is unlikely to scam.

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January 30, 2020, 06:33:10 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), nullius (1)
 #103

Suchmoon has been through most of that drama and has found refuge into simplifying the system. "Trust is only for trade, easy-peasy".
This is untrue. Yes, I oppress criminals and dishonest people. Can't scam anymore and cheat the systems with your account? Boo fucking hoo. It's a system of trust not a system of trade. My rating on TECSHARE Is not going anywhere and will be rewritten, expanded as more deceptive and untrustworthy behavior occurs. I may need to open a whole thread  because there are too many references as is, let alone in the coming future.

Closing remarks:

They are just that, examples, which serve as evidence for the claim that the introduction of the flag system/change in the trust-system had to have had a weakening effect on the requirements and not the other way around. I have spent time looking for some examples rather than telling you "Hey look at all the years until now" in hope that you see how things really always were.
The only remaining option is to ask an administrative authority, i.e. theymos to provide an elaborative opinion on his own guidelines..
I will be choosing the latter option..

This claim is now also backed up by theymos. Therefore, I hope that people start spreading this to be the truth and not the reverse (that the requirement for negatives is stricter now - because it is not!).

Yes, the threshold for negatives was weakened. On the rating form, it says: "Negative - You think that trading with this person is high-risk." (Pre-flags, it used to say something much stronger.) So if for any reason you think that trading with the person is high-risk, then a negative rating may be warranted. (This does exclude giving negative trust just because you dislike them or their opinions, though, since that has nothing to do with trading.)
I fully agree on this, trolling on itself it's sufficient especially not occasional instances of trolling (labeling occasional and consistent trolls as one would be wrong). Also keep in mind the distinction between "their opinions" and having an opinion about somebody i.e. their trustworthiness based on their actions.

Reasons why I or many rational persons wouldn't trade with someone:
  • Trolling - I wouldn't attempt to trade with a known troll due to non-trade related deceptive behavior.
  • Dishonesty/hypocrisy - Who would?
  • General deceptive behavior.
  • Many, many more..
However, it also confirms that deceptive behavior is in fact more than appropriate for a negative because it relates to a person's trustworthiness - and that's related to trading. Now, some people might take a illogical route and argue that trolling itself is deceptive behavior. Sure, you can look at it like that. I can also say that stating that the Earth is flat is deceptive. However, that would be moving the goalposts just for the sake of destroying the argument (as we're talking about actual deceptive behavior) and a display of behavior you should not be tagging for - re: opinions on subjects (which is different from slander/libel/etc. - see quote again).
Some people may seemingly misunderstand my rating on OP, but that's because they already have a conclusion about it before reading it. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of his opinion or his trolling (for which he's long overdue for a ban). That's irrelevant.


Exclusions aren't personal attacks, simply a disagreement of opinions, and sometimes a compromise in an imperfect system.
That is how it should be, but is not how the state of things are unfortunately. Most of the time they are seen as personal attacks. How many times did someone get excluded because they first excluded the other person?

That would be it. I'd appreciate that nobody wastes my time by either replying to me, or PM-ing me links to inside this thread. I'll be doing my best to ignore it as it's fruitless.

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January 30, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
Merited by nullius (1)
 #104

This is untrue. Yes, I oppress criminals and dishonest people. Can't scam anymore and cheat the systems with your account? Boo fucking hoo. It's a system of trust not a system of trade. My rating on TECSHARE Is not going anywhere and will be rewritten, expanded as more deceptive and untrustworthy behavior occurs. I may need to open a whole thread  because there are too many references as is, let alone in the coming future.

The resources of this forum may be insufficient to fully organize the trust abuse by Techy.  A wiki might work better.   That's how I'm organizing the *massive* amount of illegal activities by the person who stole 500 bitcoin cash from this community.

OGNasty scammed over 1,000 btc from this community in his pirate passthrough ponzi. 
Previous investigations:  OG vs Lauda (2018)  OG vs TMAN (2017)  OG vs Owlcatz (2018)  OG vs Twitchyseal (2018)  OG vs Lupin (2016)  After all these complaints, OG was removed as the sole forum treasurer in early 2019.
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January 30, 2020, 09:53:31 PM
 #105

Liar by implication.  Dishonest.  Contemptible.

Statistical evidence of success (and/or withholding knowledge) =/= arguing from authority. It's again one of those times, one we had last month. The rating on Kalemder will stand. Don't waste time arguing this, move on to other parts of this situation. Thanks.

It's been 4+ months since the referenced events, what's the rush to tag him now and not wait until you're ready to un-withhold the knowledge?

suchmoon is aware of a part of my nonpublic evidence on Kalemder, because I revealed to her a carefully measured portion of it.  It is despicable for suchmoon to attack Lauda over this when, at the baseline, she damn well knows that such evidence exists and has had forthrightly explained to her the reasons for withholding it.

I revealed more to Lauda than to suchmoon, because Lauda is on my “trustworthy” list; suchmoon was on my “probably trustworthy” list which indicates slowly, cautiously building a greater trust.  (On the same grounds, I revealed more evidence to suchmoon than to Foxpup, just because I have rarely interacted directly with Foxpup—trust needs to be built; that’s nothing against Foxpup there.)

suchmoon, you are pushing it to the point that the public will have a valid interest in my dumping our PM discussions into this thread as evidence of what is really going on here.  That may compromise an investigation which is as yet in its early stages.  The damage would be limited (even if probably irreparable), because I was sufficiently prudent to only entrust to you a limited amount of information; and I need to weigh that against permitting you to sow discord in public and rake Lauda over the coals for something which you yourself know about—which you know she can’t talk about, for the reasons that I stated to you.  In effect, you are knowingly obstructing justice for the sake of your desire to Win An Internet Argument.  You despicable, spoiled brat, seizing the advantage when you have sufficient information to reasonably infer that Lauda cannot defend herself here without violating my trust and harming the forum!



Exclude me then. A blind fool with poor judgement throwing a tantrum - sounds like no one should want such a person in their trust list.

Now if you're done making this personal maybe you can show us what high risks exist in trading with TECSHARE.

You always liked it (often ++liked it) when I dished that out at Quickseller.  But I see you do not like it so much when you yourself show twisted illogic and evasion similarly to how he did in those old threads, and I treat you accordingly after first having extended you the courtesy of an almost stupid level of patience on my part.

I am impartial.  Do not expect special treatment.

At least, Quickseller eventually grew up and started retracting some of his wrong statements.  I suggest that you learn from his example, reread this thread, and correct your own course.  Start by squarely addressing the points that I have stated, instead of ignoring them and repetitively trying to force me to argue on your terms—as you just did yet again, right here.

That is simply my advice; and it is sound advice which you may, of course, freely ignore.

Since my life is too valuable to waste on flamewars with no objective other than “arguing on the Internet”, the worst that can happen (the worst—from your perspective) is that I decide that the DT system is broken by design, I mostly withdraw from Reputation in favour of more productive tasks, and meanwhile, I think about perhaps some long-term way to make the forum trust system obsolete.  “Cypherpunks write code.”

Thus do I finish what you started.



A General Note on Lauda

I have requested that Lauda remove me from her inclusions list (with the understanding that, since I requested to be disincluded, it would not be improper for me to ask her to reconsider that, at her discretion).  This is on pragmatic grounds, as a precaution against another “prison break”.  She has a huge number of tags that protect the forum; if I have suddenly become a lightning-rod, I have no desire to let that be an excuse for others to advocate ~Lauda.

Those who want to see my tags up-top should include me directly.

A not irrelevant aside:  To date, excluding off-forum transactions with some well-known businesses who happen to have active forum accounts (e.g., ChipMixer), Lauda is the only member of this forum with whom I have risked BTC.  And that was a big chunk of my life savings—i.e., it was precious money that I could not afford to lose, regardless of the absolute amount.  Lauda is trustworthy—for trade, and otherwise.



Reply to johhnyUA

I know that gifs is not welcomed on this forum, but i had to show how all of this drama with Vod and TECSHARE looks like for another people

That may be how it looks for those not involved, i.e., “bad optics”; but I suggest reserving judgment when you do not know the details.  Moreover, Vod is only involved here because TECSHARE attacked my support of Vod’s tag (among others’), and suchmoon picked that up and ran with it.  Understanding this requires reading only the first two posts of the thread.

Nullius, please stop to create another drama. After your return there wasn't any useful topic (maybe except Project Anastasia and some thoughts about Chipmixer and privacy) from you (if we compare with your first visit here). Only drama on drama which riding a drama.

Agreed, at least, that I could make better use of my time.  Indeed, but for suchmoon jumping so eagerly on it, I probably would have flatly ignored this thread just as I ignored TOAA’s thread against me.  I do not reply to troll threads unless they are exceptionally amusing to stick a fork in, which this one wasn’t.  Unfortunately, suchmoon is not a troll (though she most excellently fed one here).

It is not the first time that I said so in this thread:

And if your reply to my patent olive branch, which I pointedly concluded with a hint to others, is:

I don't really give a shit

...then I cannot but say, “I am sorry you feel that way”, and express my sincere regret that I wasted hours of my time attempting in good faith to talk this out with you, in public and in private (upon your contact to me and not vice versa).  TECSHARE could not have gotten that from me.  I would probably have flatly ignored this thread but for you, but for the considerable respect that I had for you, and but for my belief that you would do your “deescalation” for your own part of a dispute that you yourself not only ~escalated, but substantially ~created in the very second post on this thread.  —Or that at least, you would “agree to disagree”, as I have been willing to do all along.  You well know that I disagree with your personal standard for tags, and that I discuss it civilly or just “agree to disagree” if you are not waving ~ in my face.



amishmanish

Thoughtful commentary—I mostly agree.  I will only reply on the points where I have something to add or debate.

The fault with this "principled" side lies that they are too clever for their own good. They are passionate about their quest to clean up and target the scammers. They find people abusing the system and all that righteous fury spills out as colorful, sarcastic language that cuts deep. "Pajeet, Third world bottom feeder, all your cousins and uncles" are the oft-repeated generalizations. When you use that language you risk biasing each and everyone of those people against you.

I think that’s an unfair mischaracterization.

I am probably one of the most “politically incorrect” people on this forum.  If somebody acts like a dumb pajeet, I will call him one; and it is not for the sake of political correctness or “liberal” virtue-signalling that I say:

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate.  But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.  It exists because everybody agrees on Bitcoin.  People all over the world, of every race and nationality, of every religion, of every political opinion, all agree on Bitcoin.  Their agreements or disagreements about anything else are irrelevant to Bitcoin.

The banks and their global financial system are destroying this world with their death-grip on money.  Monetarily, at least, everybody who is not them is in this together—blond, blue-eyed Iceland just as much as Indonesia.  Cyprus and Turkey are (cough) not quite friends; but Turks should care about Bitcoin for exactly the same reason that Cypriots should care about Bitcoin.  I will even go out on a limb and posit that Bitcoin is as good for Palestinians as it is for Meni Rosenfeld, and vice versa.

There is only one Bitcoin.  It’s for everybody.  And it is even beneficial to your interests if Bitcoin also used by people you don’t care about—or by people whom you dislike—or even by people whom you hate.  Indeed, it is beneficial to you if your enemy is invested in Bitcoin:  That means he cannot attack your financial freedom without also attacking his own money.  E.g., I have noticed that the white-pajeet wannabe-Nazi schtick Daily Stormer uses Bitcoin.  Well, they can hate Jews as much as they want; but they may have a slight problem insofar as they are relying on the individual Jews who so happen to contribute to Core development directly or indirectly.  How much do they value the one thing that protects them from being financially censored out of existence?  I suppose enough so that they aren’t adequately warning their followers about the terrible Jewish element in the Bitcoin world.  What, cut off the flow of donations?  Oy!

Bitcoin may not make some impossible Utopian “world peace”; but at least, it will make everybody agree on something:  Bitcoin!

The drama in Turkish section is a typical example of this where people actually considered it natural to include their family and exchange trust ratings/ merits to "progress" in the forum. This seems childish to the lone wolf at best and unethical at worst.

It is also bad for Turks who actually care about Bitcoin, rather than only about ranking up and chasing a “lucrative bounty”.  Of course, that is not my only concern about the Turkish local; but my concern about that is sincere, and not some on-the-spot posturing to exude a political correctness that I don’t have and don’t want.  Quoting one of my own PMs to suchmoon:

So... aside from blabbermouthing and posting frivolous ratings and flags, what do you think they can actually do?

A few ideas:

[...enumerated list of bad things...]

5. Make the Turkish local a hellish, fetid cesspit for any Turkish people who want to actually discuss Bitcoin instead of chasing coveted bounties and venting psychotic rage [...].  [...If good Turkish users are] just trying to keep their heads down amidst the drama, it would be good to give them a shiny, clean forum for discussing Bitcoin in the Turkish language.  Hell, why does theymos even have a Turkish local, if not for this purpose?

By analogy, you may have noticed that my two current “Bitcoin advocacy” threads take a positive/negative approach in tandem:  The Bitcoin Social Phenomenon thread positively advocates that There is only one Bitcoin, and it”s for everybody.  The Project Anastasia thread correctly hits Faketoshi with the buzzword of identity theft, so that non-experts can more easily understand what is really going on.  I never take a purely negative approach to problems of this type, unless the positive approach is unavailable.

I am deadly serious when I say, Bitcoin is for everybody.

as they mysteriously appeared after very long periods of inactivity with a change in language, demeanor, and suddenly hold all the same opinions of the people listed above.
Nullius may have been inactive for sometime but I have read enough on the forum to know that this allegation of "change in language, demeanor" is pretty juvenile. Nothing has changed with Nullius. He is still the same old difficult and fun to read person that he always was.

Too bad, Manish.  That dumb pajeet TECSHARE lacks your English-language literacy.

Whereas I prefer the term Chandala, as Nietzsche used.  Is he that low?  Nah.  You think so?

PS: I forgot to add, "Win Big with the Lucky Cat"...LOL..Smiley

Thanks; but after having tried logic repeatedly here, I think johhnyUA is right—or at least not wrong, insofar as this “drama” is indeed draining my time from more useful activity both on and off the forum.

And the Lucky Cat has the right idea...



Closing remarks:

[...]


That would be it. I'd appreciate that nobody wastes my time by either replying to me, or PM-ing me links to inside this thread. I'll be doing my best to ignore it as it's fruitless.

Almost-same here.  Unless I have a very good reason to reply further on this topic, I will now start ignoring it as I would have to begin with.

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January 30, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #106

suchmoon is aware of a part of my nonpublic evidence on Kalemder, because I revealed to her a carefully measured portion of it.  It is despicable for suchmoon to attack Lauda over this when, at the baseline, she damn well knows that such evidence exists and has had forthrightly explained to her the reasons for withholding it.

I'm not aware of anything that would call for a red tag.

suchmoon, you are pushing it to the point that the public will have a valid interest in my dumping our PM discussions into this thread as evidence of what is really going on here.  That may compromise an investigation which is as yet in its early stages.  The damage would be limited (even if probably irreparable), because I was sufficiently prudent to only entrust to you a limited amount of information; and I need to weigh that against permitting you to sow discord in public and rake Lauda over the coals for something which you yourself know about—which you know she can’t talk about, for the reasons that I stated to you.  In effect, you are knowingly obstructing justice for the sake of your desire to Win An Internet Argument.  You despicable, spoiled brat, seizing the advantage when you have sufficient information to reasonably infer that Lauda cannot defend herself here without violating my trust and harming the forum!

Not sure what you could possibly prove by posting PMs publicly, other than the danger of communicating with you.

Exclude me then. A blind fool with poor judgement throwing a tantrum - sounds like no one should want such a person in their trust list.

Now if you're done making this personal maybe you can show us what high risks exist in trading with TECSHARE.

You always liked it (often ++liked it) when I dished that out at Quickseller.  But I see you do not like it so much when you yourself show twisted illogic and evasion similarly to how he did in those old threads, and I treat you accordingly after first having extended you the courtesy of an almost stupid level of patience on my part.

Actually I do like your true colors. A lot. I prefer honesty whether it's intentional or not.

Lovely tangent, still no word on high risks of trading with TECSHARE.

At least, Quickseller eventually grew up and started retracting some of his wrong statements.  I suggest that you learn from his example, reread this thread, and correct your own course.  Start by squarely addressing the points that I have stated, instead of ignoring them and repetitively trying to force me to argue on your terms—as you just did yet again, right here.

Demanding me to address some "points" sounds an awful lot like cryptohunter but if you can remind me what I must address I'll see what I can do for you.

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January 30, 2020, 10:16:08 PM
 #107

lauda and family negative rates and creates flags as they wish, not that a portion of them aren't true but they aren't even a bit as fair as they trying to make themselves look.

https://enjinx.io/eth/asset/84665391 Legit me and my pipe.
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January 30, 2020, 10:42:47 PM
 #108

I think nullius will be prevented from dt1, I noticed already strange red reason given. Such moon sshould be the one to listen to. He is the best advise for how use the trust system. Follow him and his ideas understand if they not a scam or try to scam then not abuse with red your powers. You break the value of warnings. Nullius stay away from DT choice. I think he is doing what he believe is good but nullius border eccentric. Not offence
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January 30, 2020, 11:08:23 PM
Merited by figmentofmyass (1)
 #109

my dumping our PM discussions into this thread
Not sure what you could possibly prove by posting PMs publicly, other than the danger of communicating with you.

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..

stole 500 bitcoin cash from this community.

Why do you merit this shit that you know damn well is false?
I mean, unless you don't know..
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January 30, 2020, 11:32:27 PM
 #110

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..

He already posted a short bit of my PM up there.

I didn't explicitly request it to remain private so it's a moot point at best.

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January 31, 2020, 04:49:54 AM
 #111

I revealed more evidence to suchmoon than to Foxpup, just because I have rarely interacted directly with Foxpup—trust needs to be built; that’s nothing against Foxpup there.
That's okay - I rarely interact directly with anyone on this forum any more, and don't rightly know how I keep getting dragged into these disputes. Did some joker put a label on my leash that says "PULL FOR DRAMA"? In any case, I do think you're overreacting a bit and you're definitely out of line in publishing PMs. There's no need for that. (Especially if, by your own statement, that would "compromise your investigation". Is your quarrel with suchmoon really worth that?)

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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January 31, 2020, 06:05:14 AM
 #112

my dumping our PM discussions into this thread
Not sure what you could possibly prove by posting PMs publicly, other than the danger of communicating with you.

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..


That sure does sound a lot like an opinion. Rather arbitrary to make this accusation isn't it?


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January 31, 2020, 06:12:20 AM
 #113

I didn't explicitly request it to remain private so it's a moot point at best.

It seems self evident, implied by the terminology used to described the missive, and directly by the nomenclature itself, i.e. "Private Message."  Perhaps such a simple phrase isn't pedantic enough to avoid being misunderstood by nullius?

@nullius, see what I did there?  That's right, I'm making fun of you for being a verbose, arrogant twat who lacks the "English-language literacy" to understand why it's fucking called a private message.

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January 31, 2020, 06:26:37 AM
Last edit: January 31, 2020, 08:24:52 AM by Vod
 #114

That sure does sound a lot like an opinion. Rather arbitrary to make this accusation isn't it?

Techy, you have shared PMs without permission, right?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5148016.msg51275111#msg51275111

Listed as a neutral on your profile.  Do you think I should change it to red, hypocrite?

Yeah pay no attention to the IRS kicking in your door, what is important is I posted a personal message in public!

________________________________________________________________

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..

If it actually IN YOUR OPINION then what is more important to you?   Techy endangering trades by behaving untrustworthy, or your dislike of me?

OGNasty scammed over 1,000 btc from this community in his pirate passthrough ponzi. 
Previous investigations:  OG vs Lauda (2018)  OG vs TMAN (2017)  OG vs Owlcatz (2018)  OG vs Twitchyseal (2018)  OG vs Lupin (2016)  After all these complaints, OG was removed as the sole forum treasurer in early 2019.
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January 31, 2020, 07:49:21 AM
Merited by Vod (2)
 #115

Suchmoon has been through most of that drama and has found refuge into simplifying the system. "Trust is only for trade, easy-peasy"

If trust is only for trade, then why are we tagging account sellers?




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January 31, 2020, 12:45:04 PM
 #116

I didn't explicitly request it to remain private so it's a moot point at best.

It seems self evident, implied by the terminology used to described the missive, and directly by the nomenclature itself, i.e. "Private Message."  Perhaps such a simple phrase isn't pedantic enough to avoid being misunderstood by nullius?

It's actually a "personal message" and if you send something to someone, particularly unsolicited, you shouldn't start with an expectation of absolute privacy for a number of reasons, some of which don't even depend on the recipient (for example PMs often get forwarded to e-mail, so there's that).

Then there is the actual content, for example if someone sends me a plan to scam someone I can't guarantee I'll keep that private. On the other hand, I can't think of a plausible (even a hypothetical) reason to disclose any of the PMs that I got from or sent to nullius so I'm somewhat surprised that he thinks otherwise but whatever. I don't think I sent him any of my secret world domination plans.

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January 31, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
Last edit: January 31, 2020, 06:42:07 PM by DireWolfM14
 #117

It's actually a "personal message" and if you send something to someone, particularly unsolicited, you shouldn't start with an expectation of absolute privacy for a number of reasons, some of which don't even depend on the recipient (for example PMs often get forwarded to e-mail, so there's that).

Damnit, I guess I'm wearing the dunce cap for the remainder of the morning.  

But, my disagreeable side wants to argue that even the phrase "personal message," while not directly implying privacy, the implicity of such should be regarded, if for no other reason than the demonstration of respectable behavior.  

I don't think I sent him any of my secret world domination plans.

 Shocked  
I was under the impression that a Jedi craves not these things.  Huh

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January 31, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
 #118

~

You come here and post lots of rambling incoherent and pedantic spam hoping no one cares enough to read your screeds, never actually justifying any of your actions, and just hope people believe a decent reply is buried somewhere in your bullshit. Then you act like you are above replying and walk away. You have made it clear you are using the trust system simply to punish people who say things you don't like anyway and fast tracked yourself to irrelevance, so thanks anyway.




That sure does sound a lot like an opinion. Rather arbitrary to make this accusation isn't it?

Techy, you have shared PMs without permission, right?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5148016.msg51275111#msg51275111

Listed as a neutral on your profile.  Do you think I should change it to red, hypocrite?

Yeah pay no attention to the IRS kicking in your door, what is important is I posted a personal message in public!

________________________________________________________________

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..

If it actually IN YOUR OPINION then what is more important to you?   Techy endangering trades by behaving untrustworthy, or your dislike of me?


Ah, threats, very becoming of you. Clearly a stable genius. Do you even care that nothing you say even makes sense or is all that matters is you feel that there is enough of a tangentially related reference to the topic to get around being removed as off topic? Don't answer, I already know.

As far as published PMs, lets ask the person who sent the PMs I published... oh wait I am on their trust list last I checked. You care more than they do and you make no sense as usual with your accusations and threats. I have a reason to be in this thread... you are just the dingleberry that clings on to it hunting for peanuts.


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January 31, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
Last edit: January 31, 2020, 05:54:35 PM by eddie13
 #119

When PMing with a user I often explicitly state that I expect my PMs to remain private and they are not to be published publicly without my express permission, but I don't always do so.
This is almost always followed with a response such as "Of course they will remain private and I expect the same." as if this is a well known common courtesy, but I admit that it is not a hard fast rule or completely adhered to by all.. The reason I state it at times is it ends the opportunity of interpretation otherwise by either of us..

That's why I in my last post here I added "if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private" because without such a statement of requested privacy sharing PM without permission is just a low blow dick move, but after such an agreed upon request of privacy to later breach that agreement I absolutely consider a breach of trust.. If any user that made this agreement with me later published my PMs without my permission they would most likely be getting a red tag from me depending on what they used my PMs for..

I would consider that quite untrustworthy behavior indeed, especially if either of you requested any information you shared in PM to remain private, or reasonably assumed so.. It could even be construed as trade-related danger IMO..
If it actually IN YOUR OPINION then what is more important to you?   Techy endangering trades by behaving untrustworthy, or your dislike of me?
Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive and I do not want to dislike you..
Rather I feel sorry for you and would like to avoid debating with YOU even over your own posts, but anyone else that uses or agrees with your non-factual posts are fair game..

But, my disagreeable side wants to argue that even the phrase "personal message," while not directly implying privacy, the implicity of such should be regarded, if for no other reason that the demonstration of respectable behavior.  
I agree, it is a loophole around what should be common practice, but making a statement of expected privacy closes said loophole..

Rather arbitrary to make this accusation isn't it?

Not to me.. I may very well tag someone for breaching such an agreement with me, if an agreement was made thereby closing the loophole..

If nullius shared "sensitive" information with SM it is likely he asked for it not to be shared, thereby closing the loophole..
I can't know that though, but just the threat on its own is greasy..
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January 31, 2020, 06:05:35 PM
 #120

There is no private message feature on the forum. If you agree to keep information private, you should do so and you shouldn’t try to strong arm the disclosure of private information, nor to strong arm someone into vouching for private information.

I  don’t think a reasonable person would believe it is not safe to trade with techshare. To my knowledge he doesn’t have any trade complaints, he is not taking steps to have larger amounts of other people’s money at once and appears to take steps to be transparent about terms of his trades. Most of his negative ratings are about personal disputes in which nothing of value is involved. I don’t particularly like Suchmoon, and I find it hilarious to see her on her heels when not supporting the most powerful side in a dispute after year of her brownosing any and everyone in power who are involved in a dispute, but she is right about the rating (not about the forcing private information to be public). Techshare may have viewpoints or opinions that others might view are “bad” but they do not nearly reach the level that makes him dangerous to trade with.

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