ln_strike- a good sign for the Layer 2 Bitcoin Network.From fiat to btc in a sec

[squatter]

It promise to solves the big taxation problem for countries like USA

Not exactly. It solves the tax problem for a very specific use case -- where people link their debit card or bank account to Strike and pay merchant invoices in full. For people who never want to hold bitcoins or directly interact with Bitcoin, that works.

If you ever want to maintain funds on LN or hold bitcoins for any period of time longer than seconds, you will trigger taxable events under the US tax code once you liquidate. For instance:



Buying and selling bitcoins like this is undoubtedly taxable under the US tax code.

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[Wind_FURY]

No matter what arguments you have against it, seems like more and more people adopting off-chain payments as a solution for quick and cheep transactions. This can be only positive thing for bitcoin in general, which can lead to a bit more mass adoption. It promise to solves the big taxation problem for countries like USA, this will be a big advantage and hopefully more merchants can start adopting crypto as alternative payment.

That is kind of a confusion.

Merchants won't be adopting crypto at all.
Merchants will use Payment Services that directly convert from offchain LN to FIAT, totally ignoring the onchain systems as much as possible.

I'm nit-picking, but some merchants won't, some merchants will. It will always depend on their business model. BUT, there are merchants today that already use BitPay. It will be the same scenario, but faster/instant in Lightning.

The Payment Service will only buy more onchain crypto if their service needs more.
Payment Services will be run behind the scene by Banks that will charge fees.

I can be any payment service business. If banks use it, it's a success for the app.

[Wind_FURY]

To get the right context, I was supposed to type "it", not I. Plus "not to nit-pick", but there will be Bitcoin start ups, current Bitcoin payment services, besides the banks, if they choose, that would provide the service. 

[DooMAD]

Can you afford say $50000 in BTC to lock in an LN Hub for transactions?
Can you afford to meet the minimum deposit requirements of a Money Transmitter of $25,000 to over $1 million?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_transmitter
Can you afford $5000 per month to keep legal counsel so you comply with all KYC/AML laws of your country and any other country you do business with?

Can you?  The same rules would apply to your favourite crapcoin and every other cryptocurrency if we're warping the definition of "money transmitter" to mean what you're claiming it means.  Or you could just be sensible and stop trying (and failing} to scaremonger because you have no coherent arguments to raise.

Why don't you fight against exchanges and other custodial wallets as much as you fight against LN (which isn't custodial)?  What's the agenda here?  Are you butthurt over scaling like franky1?  Or do you have some other motivation for being a compulsive liar?

[Dabs]

When there are as many LN nodes or hubs as bitcoin full nodes (and they typically go hand in hand) you can't classify them all as money transmitters just because some entity says so. It's technology that runs on it's own. No one is transmitting any money.

They'd have to define what money is first. If they include bitcoin, then it must be made public that the government acknowledges bitcoin as money. They can't classify it as something else.

I believe, right now, it's considered maybe a commodity or an asset.. so commodity transmitter? asset transmitter? Do those have licenses? Gov needs to keep up with the times or know when to just give up.

[figmentofmyass]

Actually your stupidity, knows no bounds.
Only 3rd Parties ie:
middle men such as exchanges & hubs & Payment Services that act as an intermediary would be considered Money Transmitters under the definition.

Direct exchanges between individuals for goods and services ONCHAIN would not fall under the definition of a Money Transmitter.

decentralized protocols like LN do not require custodial intermediaries. transaction routing by LN nodes does not constitute money transmission in any way, shape, or form. see section 5 of FINCEN's recent guidance:

Under FinCEN regulations, a person is exempt from money transmitter status if the person only provides the delivery, communication, or network access services used by a money transmitter to support money transmission services.

you might be able to apply the "money transmitter" label to specific custodial setups like bluewallet/LndHub, but the same theory applies to all on-chain custodial services too. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5173370.0

Full Nodes are not Money Transmitters, they do nothing but record a public copy of the Blockchain.

similar to LN nodes, bitcoin nodes can also propagate transactions to other nodes. that doesn't make them money transmitters. they are propagating/routing data to the p2p network, not transmitting money.

[Wind_FURY]

Khoas77, the technology will change/IS changing the "rule book". You don't like it, contact the FBI/SEC/FINCEN, and shout at them that there are 11,000 money-transmitters operating illegally, https://1ml.com/statistics

[Dabs]

How do you arrest someone when they are outside your jurisdiction, (or if you don't know where they are) ... ip addresses don't easily give a specific location either. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I guess it becomes a federal matter for them then. Or bump it up to interpol level or something. Or they'd have to get evidence and prove it in court before a judge first or something.

I think more likely the rules will change. It's not easy trying to arrest 11,000 computers.

[Dabs]

Ask the Guy that ran silk rose, how safe he was on the dark web & tor.

He made a mistake and was not able to hide all his tracks. He had an account registered with his real email address on this very forum asking about "the silk road" ... so there's that. (and a bunch of other seemingly smaller mistakes like using the wifi from the coffee shop in the same city he's always been) Otherwise he'd probably not get caught.

Yes, they will probably start with the biggest players. It would be a precedent if it can hold up in court or actually processed. The biggest players will resist on all available legal grounds, so it's going to be a fight we should be watching. If it ever happens.

[Wind_FURY]

Khoas77, the technology will change/IS changing the "rule book". You don't like it, contact the FBI/SEC/FINCEN, and shout at them that there are 11,000 money-transmitters operating illegally, https://1ml.com/statistics

Don't worry , they will be arrested in due time.

No, they won't, but go, report them to the FBI/SEC/FINCEN. Haha.

What is bad is people like you that lie to them that they won't be.

 

LN was never made for the little guy , it was made for the banks, get that thru your thick skulls.

Banks started buying Bitcoin, and staked/locked them in Lightning channels to provide liquidity, wouldn't that be a success?

People like you & dumbmad that give up freedoms for the ease of slavery, no wonder the banks have been winning throughout history.

It's misinforming trolls like you that make this forum a bad place to learn.

[franky1]

sorry not seconds..

In Lightning, franky1.

sorry not btc either.(bitcoin has no millisats)
btc has a blockchain and units of measure in 8 decimals...
.. LN does not
LN is a separate network not a btc layer. LN is used for multiple currencies.

It's Bitcoin.
Bitcoin's Layer 2, AKA the Lightning Network, has payment channels with real Bitcoins locked in them, that can be settled in the Bitcoin blockchain anytime.

this announcement is just promoting zap. not the btc network
..moving on

Nit-picking are we?

i dare anyone to take the time to type in card details and a true btc blockchain address and time how long it takes to see confirmed btc on a btc explorer.. it aint seconds

It's about Lightning payments, franky1, not Bitcoin blockchain payments.

ha ha ha. so much fail in one post

you say "in lightning" ... "its bitcoin" .. wait you were saying they the same thing..

first he says LN is bitcoin..
then ends with 'its about lightning not bitcoin...

which is it??
(rhetorical question only you need to answer for yourself.. i already know.. and deep down you kinda know they separate. but afraid to admit it publicly)

..
anyway the other points.
LN channels are just pegged 12 decimal tokens that are linked to bitcoin locked transactions. LN are also channels that are not linked directly to bitcoin transactions.
you might want to (dare i say it once more) do some friggin research!!
check out how the 'factory concept works

hint. the factory (custodian) has the pegged tokens that sign transactions.. and what they then hand out to users is OFF CHAIN transactions that dont identify as reminiscent to the onchain transactions.. this allow users to play around with, to their hearts content and pleasure and can be consolidated and re-issued without needing bitcoins blockchain..

lastly..
you keep thinking lightning is bitcoins layer..
ITS NOT

lightning is a separate network for multiple coins.. fully independent of bitcoins network.
it was actually bitcoin that had to change to be compatible to LN to actually do things for LN..
wake up and take our nose out of certain peoples back side and try to read something independent.
heck even some LN devs themselves are honest enough to admit LN's issues..
but if you only want to stick with a certain camps thoughts. then you are very one sided and not willing to learn. you just want to fanboy
beut please do some friggin research... its been a few years yet you still seem stuck back in the old age myths.. and its becoming very very strange for someone to be promting someone and yet years later not any better knowledged on the subject.

very very very very last hint.
learn the friggen difference between millisats and sats and why millisats are not compatible with bitcoin.
try to actually learn some basics and not some fanboy tactics

..
point is..
if you saying moving iat using bitcoin
the whole typing in debit card details takes more than a few seconds
getting the bitcoin takes minute. putting bitcoin into a channel takes time.. moving millisats(notbtc) takes seconds. then getting the actual BTC at the end takes minutes(sometimes weeks depending on lock
.. please understand difference between the tx of few seconds of millsat based tokens. is not bitcoin
this might aswell be saying kraken makes bitcoin fast because XRP is fast..
(you know XRP is not bitcoin)

ask anyone what bitcoin is
if one person describes blockchains and 8 decimals and confirmation and mining.. they are correct

if one person describes channels and 12 decimals and just countersigning they are incorrect.
someone has really duped you into thinking bitcoin is not bitcoin and LN is

screw it.. for future reference and a reminder.. ill make a short quote by your own words too.. just as a reminder

It's about Lightning payments, not Bitcoin blockchain payments.

[Dabs]

That wasn't a fix. It's a quoted post edited to reflect something false. But hey, trolls will be trolls.

[Dabs]

I don't know about the others, but I'm fine thinking on my own. Has nothing to do with whatever the core devs say. I do see a few hundred contributors, I don't know any of them, not really.