KNC Mining TITAN - First SCRYPT Miner 250MHs+ - PreOrder [36/40 Available]

[charles99]

I am starting a group buy for the new Titan from KNC Miner.  This is a preorder with expected delivery in the 2/3 Quarter of 2014.  All BTC will be fully refunded minus a minor TX fee if there is not enough interest in the group buy.  My history of group buys are below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347845.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228700.0
(Yes I know it says charles999 and I'm charles99.  That's because of some stupid comment I made in one of the posts and the admin decided to freeze my old account.)

(From KNCMiner's website)The details of the device we can reveal today are as follows:
 
Minimum 250/MH/s of performance. (likely to increase as we get further down the development path)
Uses a Standard ATX power supply (customer supplied ATX).
Based on the existing Jupiter form factor but will have blades containing numerous chips inside.
Shipment begins in Q2/Q3 of 2014.

This group buy is intended to let forum members take part in the opportunity to purchase cheap hash-rate through the recently launched KNC Miner Titan(https://www.kncminer.com/products/titan) company located in Stockholm, Sweden. The unit that the shares relate to is the KNC TITAN advertised for 100+ MH/s (https://www.kncminer.com/).  


Why trust me?  I've previously had a group buy with the last KNCminers and all members received their fair share as agreed upon in the last groupbuy.  Please see the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228700.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347845.0

I have structured the purchase so that members wanting to get access to the exceptionally cheap hash rate/MH that the Titan offers can secure hash rate from one of the machines without paying the full purchase price.  Each share you purchase will get you that percentage of what the Miner generates.  All utility and maintenance cost will be paid by me.  I will also buy the necessary power supplies for the Titan.

Offering:

- 40 shares of BTC .75 each are available.
- Each share is worth approximately 6.2+Mhs of hashing power
- Each share entitles the owner to 1/40 of the BTC proceeds from a KNC Miner Titan mining 24/7 for 20 months*, payment will be made to the address of the shareholders weekly. (* Miner breaking after 12 month warranty, random acts of nature like datacenter burns down etc.,internet downtime, not covered in 24/7 for 20 months(should not be a problem))

- After 20 months we will consider decommissioning the miner if it is no longer profitable to run.
- Also the group as a whole will have ownership of the unit.  During our group ownership, if an opportunity presents itself to sell the unit early, we will put it up for a vote.  If more than 55% agrees to sell the unit early.  We will sell and everyone will get their split according to the shares they own.   I personally feel this is the fairest deal and it’s what separates us from other offers.    

Provided by Groupbuy Host:

- The unit will be properly cooled at a temperature of 67 degrees 24/7.  The unit will also be connected to a UPS at all times to ensure there’s no electrical issues.  
- Electricity, UPS, Power supply and other material required to host the units.
- All hosting and support services will be handled by me.

IN CASE OF NON DELIVERY: I take no responsibility for the possibility that KNC Miner does not deliver the miner. I have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.

To purchase shares:

- Send BTC.75 per share to address: 159XCzZiTNuVVb6f4X2iG3fUj3fc6Bdm61

- PM me/and post the transaction ID (txid) in this thread. ONLY use sending addresses you fully control. I will use the sending address for BTC payouts for your share ownership and if you request change of payout address I will require that you can sign your share purchase address to make this happen OR I WILL NOT CHANGE THE RECEIVING ADDRESS. This is for your own protection.

If I have forgotten anything or you require more info etc. Please feel free to ask/post in this thread.

[charles99]

Since some have messaged me.  This miner is for Scrypt mining.  Mining Litecoin and other scrypt coins. 

[damiano]

 

[miter_myles]

 

[LittleD]

He confirmed that he is Charles999.... bro you really need to fix the other account 

[charles99]

best part is the other charles is online

Damiano i got your message on the other charles999 account about imposter.  I am actually the same person.  I cant post or respond on the charles999 account but can receive messages.  So this is actually a valid Groupbuy.  Please help remove the negative comments.  Just message me on the Charles999 account and i will respond with this acct.  weird i know!!  But cant respond from that account.

[LittleD]

best part is the other charles is online

Damiano i got your message on the other charles999 account about imposter.  I am actually the same person.  I cant post or respond on the charles999 account but can receive messages.  So this is actually a valid Groupbuy.  Please help remove the negative comments.  Just message me on the Charles999 account and i will respond with this acct.  weird i know!!  But cant respond from that account.

Alright message me on ur other account please
Thanks

[LittleD]

best part is the other charles is online

Damiano i got your message on the other charles999 account about imposter.  I am actually the same person.  I cant post or respond on the charles999 account but can receive messages.  So this is actually a valid Groupbuy.  Please help remove the negative comments.  Just message me on the Charles999 account and i will respond with this acct.  weird i know!!  But cant respond from that account.

Dude if this is you why would you make another account with same name. keep it simple a stick to the same account as before.

[charles99]

Cuz i cant respond or post messages using charles999.  I can see private messages though.  So send me one to charles999 and i respond using charles99.  I am using the same id with one less digit as i am the same person. 

Help delete the negative rating and messages please.  I dont like red

best part is the other charles is online

Damiano i got your message on the other charles999 account about imposter.  I am actually the same person.  I cant post or respond on the charles999 account but can receive messages.  So this is actually a valid Groupbuy.  Please help remove the negative comments.  Just message me on the Charles999 account and i will respond with this acct.  weird i know!!  But cant respond from that account.

Dude if this is you why would you make another account with same name. keep it simple a stick to the same account as before.

[LittleD]

Cuz i cant respond or post messages using charles999.  I can see private messages though.  So send me one to charles999 and i respond using charles99.  I am using the same id with one less digit as i am the same person. 

Help delete the negative rating and messages please.  I dont like red

best part is the other charles is online

Damiano i got your message on the other charles999 account about imposter.  I am actually the same person.  I cant post or respond on the charles999 account but can receive messages.  So this is actually a valid Groupbuy.  Please help remove the negative comments.  Just message me on the Charles999 account and i will respond with this acct.  weird i know!!  But cant respond from that account.

Dude if this is you why would you make another account with same name. keep it simple a stick to the same account as before.

why cant u log in but I will message you

[ivanlabrie]

I can vouch for Chuck, he is indeed the same guy (I have his skype and email).

He's 100% legit and one of the most trust-worthy guys you'll find in this forum.

Please remove the negative ratings, if someone doesn't deserve them is Chuck999.

[charles99]

Thanks Ivan

I can vouch for Chuck, he is indeed the same guy (I have his skype and email).

He's 100% legit and one of the most trust-worthy guys you'll find in this forum.

Please remove the negative ratings, if someone doesn't deserve them is Chuck999.

[miter_myles]

...

[charles99]

I hope they check it out also.  Maybe they will finally respond to my 30 messages to fix my original account. 

im confused as hell right now...

im not trying to make things difficult for anyone, but to me this looks like a scam and im not part of the last GB, but I am very familiar with names of the GB leaders so this was a red flag to begin with...

ive been scammed before and it sucks and just trying to prevent..

I will remove negative rating since there is vouching for the OP

concur - I do not understand why someone wouldn't be able to log back into their own forum account?  Or seek assistance on resetting/reactivating it instead of just making a new one. (makes zero sense)... esp if they want to run another GB.

I would hope that a mod checks out both accounts and looks at the IPs and verify any red flags..

[ivanlabrie]

im confused as hell right now...

im not trying to make things difficult for anyone, but to me this looks like a scam and im not part of the last GB, but I am very familiar with names of the GB leaders so this was a red flag to begin with...

ive been scammed before and it sucks and just trying to prevent..

I will remove negative rating since there is vouching for the OP

concur - I do not understand why someone wouldn't be able to log back into their own forum account?  Or seek assistance on resetting/reactivating it instead of just making a new one. (makes zero sense)... esp if they want to run another GB.

I would hope that a mod checks out both accounts and looks at the IPs and verify any red flags..

We can ask a mod to do so, I'll see if I can buy a share, I trust this guy completely.

[elviselvis101]

Could you post a simpel link that explain "sending addresses you fully control" for someone that know
nothing ?
-Mabye it will also help another newbie.
or give exampel of an adress that I do not fully control..

[charles99]

A fully control address is from a bitcoin client that you install on your computer.  Addresses like those from an Exchange are not fully controled by you.  The exchange owns it and they can go belly up. 

Could you post a simpel link that explain "sending addresses you fully control" for someone that know
nothing ?
-Mabye it will also help another newbie.
or give exampel of an adress that I do not fully control..

[LittleD]

He's 100% legit    trust-worthy guys, He is charles99 and Charles999

[LittleD]

Hey charles99,
who is doing your escrow , maybe ill buy one from you

[charles99]

Thanks for clearing things up.
I am not doing escrow as i will be using the funds to buy the units. 

Its difficult to use escrow for preorders as this could be a lengthy wait.

I've been around for over a year and have not screwed anyone for a penny so hopefully i have earned some trust.  Please becareful with any group buy you pick though. 

He's 100% legit    trust-worthy guys, He is charles99 and Charles999

[jamesc760]

To those who question why he's not able to login as chuck999 or whatever, it's because the mods are too busy deleting posts they don't like and can't be bothered with, I mean I have a friend who forgot his login password and asked for help numerous times. No one replied to his call for help.

[ivanlabrie]

lol, sad but true.

Hey Chuck, you should post some profitability figures and futurology.

These things mine btc and ltc or only LTC/DOGE/whatever?

Personally I think, based on Chuck's and KNC's reputation that these shares will be a worthwhile investment if you're patient.
Last time I made a nice profit, even though we had to sell the unit earlier than expected, got ROI and some extra btc.

[charles99]

The Titan is a SCRYPT miner so it's made to mine Litecoin and other scrypt coins.  This unit should be profitable as long as it arrives before September.  So we have a long ways to wait for it.

lol, sad but true.

Hey Chuck, you should post some profitability figures and futurology.

These things mine btc and ltc or only LTC/DOGE/whatever?

Personally I think, based on Chuck's and KNC's reputation that these shares will be a worthwhile investment if you're patient.
Last time I made a nice profit, even though we had to sell the unit earlier than expected, got ROI and some extra btc.

[ivanlabrie]

Sounds good...0.5 for 2500kh/s is pretty legit. No maintenance nor hassle too.

Say we mine Doge, we should be able to get between 0.01 and 0.015 btc per day.

To get that currently you'd need to have 3 R9 290s which draw 288w from the psu and cost 500usd each!

[charles99]

I guess we got moved to Alt Coins!  NICE

[charles99]

Still shares available! 

[hometester]

What method will be you using to mine and send dividends to share holders?

Will you just point it at a popular multi pool or?

[charles99]

Since alt coins changes so fast, my plans for the TitN is to mine Ltc as the main and pump and dump coins as they are released.  So those investing in this miner will actually invest in my trading skills.  All payouts will be made in Btc or ltc for convenience. 


quote author=hometester link=topic=522247.msg5833261#msg5833261 date=1395458060]
What method will be you using to mine and send dividends to share holders?

Will you just point it at a popular multi pool or?
[/quote]

[clanie]

I'll take 2 shares

[charles99]

Thanks Clanie, I've confirm your transaction via the block chain. 

I'll take 2 shares

[skuser]

Sounds good...0.5 for 2500kh/s is pretty legit. No maintenance nor hassle too.

Say we mine Doge, we should be able to get between 0.01 and 0.015 btc per day.

To get that currently you'd need to have 3 R9 290s which draw 288w from the psu and cost 500usd each!

This statement is valid today, but I doubt these numbers will be valid in September when the Titan probably arrives, Gridseeds will kill the numbers in the meantime

[ivanlabrie]

Sounds good...0.5 for 2500kh/s is pretty legit. No maintenance nor hassle too.

Say we mine Doge, we should be able to get between 0.01 and 0.015 btc per day.

To get that currently you'd need to have 3 R9 290s which draw 288w from the psu and cost 500usd each!

This statement is valid today, but I doubt these numbers will be valid in September when the Titan probably arrives, Gridseeds will kill the numbers in the meantime

Of course, difficulty will keep increasing, but it'll still be way cheaper than regular gpus for scrypt.
We can always resell the shares or the unit, like we did with the last group buy's btc miner.

Gpu mining now is a lot of hassle for some, but it's also worth it if you work on it.

[charles99]

Still shares available! 

[clanie]

Still shares available! 

Yes, it is a little strange that there isn't more interest. AFAICT it is one of the best Titan GB-deals available - but of course the groundless scam-accusations probably didn't help 
Have you considered also announcing this GB on reddit and some of the altcoin forums, such as litecointalk.org and altcointalk.org?
Maby that could kick up a little more interest :-)

[ivanlabrie]

that's an excellent idea Chuck

[charles99]

Okay let me try to get more people.  Not use to this, my group buys use to sell themselves   And This scrypt miner looks very hot!  If BTC goes up a bit, I might just buy it outright.

Still shares available! 

Yes, it is a little strange that there isn't more interest. AFAICT it is one of the best Titan GB-deals available - but of course the groundless scam-accusations probably didn't help 
Have you considered also announcing this GB on reddit and some of the altcoin forums, such as litecointalk.org and altcointalk.org?
Maby that could kick up a little more interest :-)

[clanie]

KnC just announced that the Titan will be an 250 MH/s miner!

That made this a much better deal, but it also means that batch #1 will very likely be sold out quite soon.
If we can be sure to get a batch-1 miner I'd like to buy 4 more shares, so what do you think?

[PickNic]

whhich is delivery date?

[clanie]

whhich is delivery date?

Should be q2-q3 this year according to KnC

[hotcoin010309]

Is a good miner...

[ivanlabrie]

Some more reassuring info:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=17948.0

March 26th, 2014:

With the internet awash with poor data and panic about scrypt asics, I decided to put together a (hopefully) readable analysis about the current state of asics, with emphasis on the differences between SHA256/Bitcion asics, and SCRYPT asics. 

One of the most important things to consider is that scrypt asic's will not be as prolific as sha256 asics simply due to the memory constraints imposed by the scrypt algorithm.

Some technical facts to consider:
First true btc asics were built on a 65nm manufacturing process which at the time was about 7 years old.  Despite that they were ~40x more efficient than GPUs (~2MH/w on a GPU, vs ~80MH/w on a BFL single sc)
Current 20nm (the smallest/newest production process) sha256 asics (knc Neptune for example) are orders of magnitude better than that, around 2000MH/w, ~1000x more efficient than a GPU
Until manufacturing process goes smaller than 20nm, asic's can't advance as quickly as they have in the last 2 years while "catching up" to current process... ie: they jumped from 65nm to 20nm in less than 2 years, whereas now they can only expect to jump from 20nm to 14nm in ~2 years.  This is significant.
We can see that the first gridseed scrypt asic is about 12x more power efficient than the best GPU in terms of scrypt KH/w.  AMD R9 270 at ~ 3KH/w, gridseed 360kh scrypt asic ~36KH/w (55nm process).
We can see that the first KNC scrypt asic is about 26x more power efficient than the best GPU in terms of scrypt KH/w. AMD R9 270 at ~ 3KH/w, KNC titan ~85 KH/w (?? process).
This is already proof of scrypt algorithm doing what it was originally intended to do, which is to make scrypt asic development less prolific than that of sha256 asics - which I would say they have achieved, notably when considering that even the first generation 65nm btc asics were 4x more efficient than the current 55nm scrypt asics vs GPUs strictly in terms of power.  This is especially true when you consider the people building these scrypt asics (gridseed, knc) have already been building sha256/bitcoin asics for quite some time and are familiar with the process.

As with everything, the first person to get their asic, scrypt or otherwise, usually makes their money back pretty quickly.  With bitcoin, this was far more volatile than it will be with scrypt asics as the bitcoin asics that were built on a smaller process than their predecessor were 10x more efficient.

If you're basing your scrypt asic buying decision on the history of bitcoin asic's, don't.   This is because scrypt asics will not be as prolific as sha256 asics were... it is simply not possible to produce a scrypt asic that outperforms gpu's by the same amount that a sha256 asic outperforms them, among other things because of memory constraints inherent to scrypt algorithm (and limitations of sram cell size/current leakage on newer processes).

Scrypt asics on 22nm will not be 25x more efficient that scrypt asics on 55nm as we see that they are in sha256/bitcoin asics.  This is due to, as previously mentioned,  limitations of sram cell size and current leakage vs manufacturing process size and the cost of that miniaturization.

Also consider the fact that scrypt coins are largely popular,  ie: adopted, because of their rapport with GPU mining.  You had hundreds of thousands of gpus mining bitcoins that suddenly needed something else to do and spurred on the adoption of litecoin (and later other scrypt coins).  Take that away, suddenly vertcoin is the new favorite.  Altcoins not being the forerunner that bitcoin is - I would be surprised if they responded the same positive way to the introduction of ASICs as bitcoin did.  Look at how scrypt difficulty has risen since Christmas and how alt coin prices have inversely adjusted, almost 1:-1.

The asic's shipping in the fall/early winter (namely, KNC titan) will be close to 5x more efficient in terms of initial cost vs GPU, and about 26x more efficient in terms of power usage when compared to current GPU standard.  Although KNC has not disclosed the manufacturing process upon which their new scrypt asic is being manufactured, one can estimate that if it is 2.5x more efficient than gridseed's 55nm process, it is likely being produced on 28nm.  If you are one to buy this ASIC, you can expect that the first 20nm scrypt asics (~Q1/Q2 2015) to roll out will be, at most, 1.4x more power efficient than your 28nm due to the way current leakage of sram scales on process miniaturization.

SO, what does all that mean?

For bitcoin/sha256 asics:
Current/Next gen bitcoin/sha256 asics are already at the forefront of manufacturing process, they cannot get more power efficient without waiting for a new manufacturing process to be available (14nm) which is not on the roadmap for their scale of production until at least end of 2015 - if Intel isn't doing it now, they wont be doing it for another year.  This means that the only way to increase your SHA256 hashrate using asics is to scale-out.  ie: buy more.  As a result and when compared to previous improvements in ASIC generations and their resulting efficiency jumps - these current 20nm asics will not depreciate as quickly as, for example, the 55nm asics.  Increasing asic efficiency 10x every year is no longer possible now that we've reached (or caught up to, rather) the smallest reasonable manufacturing process and thus, the most efficient sha256 asics (for MH/w) without improving the actual design of the circuit (minimal gains are to be had here, but not 10x).  The only way for them to go now is down in price (with increase in quantity produced).

For scrypt asics:
Largely due to the familiarity of manufacturers with die shrink on exsiting sha256 asics, the second gen scrypt asics (again, referring to KNCs example) are already very close to the smalles process and thus peak efficiency.  With the most efficient asic capable of being produced today only being ~40% more efficient than a 28nm example, which means the "best" scrypt asic that we'll see before mid-end 2015 will only ever be ~35x more power efficient than GPUs, still a significant margin no doubt, but not as extreme as the best 20nm sha256 asics out now which are nearly 1000x more efficient than GPU.

TL;DR:  The best next gen scrypt asics (arriving Q3 this year) are roughly 22x less efficient than gpu mining than current gen bitcoin asics are, but are still substantially (~26x) more power efficient than GPUs.  Once they reach 20nm process , likely Q2 2015, they will be ~35x more power efficient.

TL;DR2: Next gen scrypt asics shipping in the fall are pretty close to the best you can expect for asic efficiency within the next 18 months (within ~40%) and thus, you will not get washed out by future asics as hard as second gen bitcoin asic buyers were.  BUT, asics might be far more detrimental to scrypt coin profitability per KH than bitcoin asics were to sha256 profitability.

[charles99]

Hot dang!! Thats fast and it could end up faster.  Ok i think i am going to order a unit outside the group buy first.  We need more people in the groupbuy before the stock goes down!

[ivanlabrie]

I want a share, but it depends on me having luck with a business opportunity next week. Wish me luck!

[clanie]

Hot dang!! Thats fast and it could end up faster.  Ok i think i am going to order a unit outside the group buy first.  We need more people in the groupbuy before the stock goes down!

Hi charles99.
If i get this right you are ordering this for yourself, not for the groupbuy, right?
When will you order one for the groupbuy - only after all shares have been sold?

[clanie]

Her's a way to get a small "discount" when buying a Titan. If it is legit - but at least you can't really loose anything.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=545474.msg5955255#msg5955255

[charles99]

Had to align price of groupbuy to match current BTC price.  All previous purchases will retain their shares.  No changes to your share rights.

[charles99]

Okay this is moving along quite smoothly.  Shares still available!

[charles99]

Only 33 Shares left!

[woowoo]

any updates on this ?

[sameev29]

If you want to buy more scrypt shares for the least price available have a look at this groupbuy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594631.0

[ZizzyDizzyMC]

IF my 1Th/s Bitcoin miners will get their heads out of their rears I'll be able to buy a share in two weeks. Sorry about the wait. I blew up the powerline to my house twice in one week.

[charles99]

There's currently 31 shares left..

[woowoo]

looks like they have revised their 2nd batch of preorders ?
drop in price, and increase in hash, plus a new mini product
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/litecoin-mining-hardware

any updates on how we are tracking ?

[ivanlabrie]

They don't offer refunds on Titans so you'll have to wait for it to arrive.

Good news is scrypt is still viable, you guys have a pretty decent chance at a roi and decent profits. 

[charles99]

Hi Guys.  Due to lack of interest and no refund option from KNC.  I think we're going to cancel this group buy.  Please message me the BTC address you would like your refund to go to. 

Thank you so much for your interest.

Charles