I'm considering becoming a full node

[jackg]

Hahhaha, what is then the usefull thing of Bitcoin Core ?
When you have it running but nothing get for it ?

If you want to earn something and can keep a node running then you can try running a lightning node but I'm not sure how much you can earn from the fees of on - it'll be very little atm though.

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[fillippone]

Hahhaha, what is then the usefull thing of Bitcoin Core ?
When you have it running but nothing get for it ?

If you want to earn something and can keep a node running then you can try running a lightning node but I'm not sure how much you can earn from the fees of on - it'll be very little atm though.

I am afraid routing fees are totally inadequate to compensate for hardware, running costs and time spent to run a lightning node.
Running a node for the fees means doing so for the least important of the reasons.

[ABCbits]

Hahhaha, what is then the usefull thing of Bitcoin Core ?
When you have it running but nothing get for it ?

If you want to earn something and can keep a node running then you can try running a lightning node but I'm not sure how much you can earn from the fees of on - it'll be very little atm though.

I am afraid routing fees are totally inadequate to compensate for hardware, running costs and time spent to run a lightning node.
Running a node for the fees means doing so for the least important of the reasons.

Don't forget transaction fees when you open and close channel. Even faucet could give you more Bitcoin rather than routing fees.

Only exchange/services who might earn profit since they have many LN channel for routing purpose.

[fillippone]

Don't forget transaction fees when you open and close channel. Even faucet could give you more Bitcoin rather than routing fees.

Only exchange/services who might earn profit since they have many LN channel for routing purpose.

Absolutely.
My badly explained point is that even running a node, already fully setup, has running cost in terms of resources (electricity, time and risks) that greatly overtake the eventual revenues.
This is in the present, I don’t know in the future (many years ahead) when L1 will be saturated and L2 will be more used.

If you are looking for quick and easy revenue, this is not the direction worth looking at.

[jackg]

Yeah it's not a fast way for getting a good revenue stream. But if you're not paying for electric or anything then it's an idea...

And you don't have fees to open a node, just fees if you start a channel. If you help someone else start theirs you don't pay their fees.

[kryme]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

[fillippone]

Not massively risky I would say.
If properly configured the attack footprint of a full node is definelty not too big.
You can find a few hint on how to strenghten your node here (albeit the guide is specific for a specific hardware configuration, you can find some useful hints).
If you don't run your node under TOR you might discole your IP, this may lead to ddos attacks.
Something is actually mentioned in the bitcoin.org website:

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#possible-problems

Possible Problems

• Legal: Bitcoin use is prohibited or restricted in some areas.
• Bandwidth limits: Some Internet plans will charge an additional amount for any excess upload bandwidth used that isn’t included in the plan. Worse, some providers may terminate your connection without warning because of overuse. We advise that you check whether your Internet connection is subjected to such limitations and monitor your bandwidth use so that you can stop Bitcoin Core before you reach your upload limit.
• Anti-virus: Several people have placed parts of known computer viruses in the Bitcoin block chain. This block chain data can’t infect your computer, but some anti-virus programs quarantine the data anyway, making it more difficult to run Bitcoin Core. This problem mostly affects computers running Windows.
• Attack target: Bitcoin Core powers the Bitcoin peer-to-peer network, so people who want to disrupt the network may attack Bitcoin Core users in ways that will affect other things you do with your computer, such as an attack that limits your available download bandwidth.

[mindrust]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

If you decide to contribute to the network, your IP will be visible to everybody. At worst your IP can get DDOS'ed probably but since your router is behind a firewall and only your fullnode will use the port that you forwarded, I don't think there are any serious risks like getting hacked etc...

If you only download the data and not upload, it is not risky at all.

[jackg]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

As long as you're network has strict rules, you'll normally be fine.

There are always vulnerabilites in certain things but as long as you ensure security remains pretty tight and you don't try to change any settings you don't understand (typically on the router) and the firewall remains as strong or only allows connectios to go through to that computer (on the 8333 port) then you should be safe.

[kryme]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

If you decide to contribute to the network, your IP will be visible to everybody. At worst your IP can get DDOS'ed probably but since your router is behind a firewall and only your fullnode will use the port that you forwarded, I don't think there are any serious risks like getting hacked etc...

If you only download the data and not upload, it is not risky at all.

Ya I figured the most would be DDoS. Is getting DDoS'd while running a full node common in the Bitcoin world? I've run private game servers and it's very common in that world 

[fillippone]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

If you decide to contribute to the network, your IP will be visible to everybody. At worst your IP can get DDOS'ed probably but since your router is behind a firewall and only your fullnode will use the port that you forwarded, I don't think there are any serious risks like getting hacked etc...

If you only download the data and not upload, it is not risky at all.

Ya I figured the most would be DDoS. Is getting DDoS'd while running a full node common in the Bitcoin world? I've run private game servers and it's very common in that world 

I have been running a node since a year now.
It never happened to me.
This is my experience.

[jackg]

Ya I figured the most would be DDoS. Is getting DDoS'd while running a full node common in the Bitcoin world? I've run private game servers and it's very common in that world 

I have been running a node since a year now.
It never happened to me.
This is my experience.

I think they go after the nodes used for more.. The last DDoS afaik was electrum, so that was specific to nodes hosting their servers.

If you run a node, you're only one in eleven thousand so there's a chance you might not ever be DDoSed (especially if the network keeps growing and you don't stand out much).

[ABCbits]

Not my topic but question to the people replying to this - what kind of security risks (if any) come with running a full node from your residential connection?

If you decide to contribute to the network, your IP will be visible to everybody. At worst your IP can get DDOS'ed probably but since your router is behind a firewall and only your fullnode will use the port that you forwarded, I don't think there are any serious risks like getting hacked etc...

If you only download the data and not upload, it is not risky at all.

Ya I figured the most would be DDoS. Is getting DDoS'd while running a full node common in the Bitcoin world? I've run private game servers and it's very common in that world 

It rarely happens because there aren't many options to DDoS full nodes. Additionally, Bitcoin Core have mechanism to block peers/nodes who attempt to DDoS by sending invalid information.

You probably don't need to worry about it too much, unless your node is part of public service (e.g. pools, block explorer, exchange, etc.)

[jackg]

It rarely happens because there aren't many options to DDoS full nodes. Additionally, Bitcoin Core have mechanism to block peers/nodes who attempt to DDoS by sending invalid information.

You probably don't need to worry about it too much, unless your node is part of public service (e.g. pools, block explorer, exchange, etc.)

I thought you'd ddos the router and not the machine? Unless you can find a port on the same machine thst is more vulnerable to attacks...

Not sure if we've moses on from accelerated denial of service (using timeservera) as that flaw may have been patched or there might have been something more efficient.

I think the reason people aren't using DoS attacks more is because they're not very worthwhile. Especially since most people can get a new ip pretty quickly too or can push their node through a different network.

[a.s.t.e.r.i.s.k]

What are the benefits for me?

If there is none economically (ex I don't recieve transaction fees) what are the actual minimum system requirements to do that?

I'm planning to have a 24/7 node working but I'm scared of electricity costs (in my country it's very expensive) so I'm considering on how to do that with the lowest expense possible.

I own several computers so I wouldn't need to buy hardware, but they either are very outdated or not really powerful (cpu and gpu wise)

Longsword94, Bitcoin's security model is that you run a full node.

The economic benefit of running a full node is that you know that you are synced with Bitcoin.

Currently, all models for using Bitcoin without running your full node, mean that you trust - you guess - that the Bitcoin ledger someone gives you, is correct.

In a Bitcoin wallet model that does not involve a fully verifying Bitcoin node, some reduced security mode is used. For instance header-only sync and SPV proofs. An SPV proof can prove to you that a payment has happened. But, an SPV proof cannot prove that Bitcoins you believe you own, have not been consumed. It would be expensive to trick your computer which does header sync, however it can be done. So again, running a fully verifying Bitcoin node is the only way to know that you are on the real, valid mainnet chain.

So that is, it's a cost that you pay to know that you are in reality, similarly to how you pay for a newspaper to know what's going on in the world.


Regarding operational expenses and suitable hardware for a fully verifying Bitcoin node:

As pointed out by others a Bitcoin node is a very cheap piece of hardware, except for that using an SSD is greatly helpful. For the computer part, some cheap 64bit Raspberry Pi computer is enough really.

The computationally intense tasks a fully verifying Bitcoin node performs, are 1. to check a lot of SECP256K1 cryptographic signatures and 2. to compute a lot of SHA256 hashes. At the end of the day these operations are still not many, so again a pretty primitive computer will do.

A very high end could maybe sync the whole Bitcoin blockchain in 15 minutes using LibBitcoin. In your case if the initial sync takes days, it's still fine as your timeframe is to run it for years.

This kind of low-power, simple computer fully verifying Bitcoin node should operate in the 0-30 watts total power consumption interval. That should mean 10-20 kilowatt hours per month power consumption. I wonder if anyone has benchmarked this? Or noone did because it was so cheap noone really cared. The energy consumed eventually becomes heat.

Rarely bandwidth consumption could be an issue and you can configure that away.

[ranochigo]

A very high end could maybe sync the whole Bitcoin blockchain in 15 minutes using LibBitcoin. In your case if the initial sync takes days, it's still fine as your timeframe is to run it for years.

This kind of low-power, simple computer fully verifying Bitcoin node should operate in the 0-30 watts total power consumption interval. That should mean 10-20 kilowatt hours per month power consumption. I wonder if anyone has benchmarked this? Or noone did because it was so cheap noone really cared. The energy consumed eventually becomes heat.

Rarely bandwidth consumption could be an issue and you can configure that away.

Even for my 2 year old laptop, the synchronization could take quite a few days even if the dbcache is set to 1GB and the computer is just left running (barring any crashes). I haven't been able to test it on the RPI 4 but I imagine that it would be a lot worse. IMO, the most efficient way would be to pre-sychronize the blockchain on another more powerful computer before loading it onto an SSD and starting it on a lower power computer.