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Author Topic: Need more opinions about bestchange red trusts.  (Read 417 times)
coupable
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February 10, 2020, 12:30:44 PM
Last edit: February 10, 2020, 09:41:47 PM by coupable
Merited by No HATE (1)
 #1

I have been waiting for responses in the previous topic about bestchange reputation made by JohhnyUA, which has been used as a reference for negative trust in bestchange profile.
I invite you to check the accusation thread here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219339.0 and the trust page of bestchange here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450 and this reply from bestchange https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219339.msg53745646#msg53745646 and the comments below it.
I think i can also quote my replies from that thread which i made after i saw some users reviewed their feedbacks in bestchange profile :
Now that the Changegero.io issue "seem to have been resolved" what happens to the Newbie flag that is massively supported on their profile?
What happens to the "non use of trusted escrow" feedback that was left now that they have paid the first week(i think)?
Actual flag and red trusts are all about "promoting fake scam project" and have this thread as a reference. Now that the case is resolved, only one user has changed his feedback from negative to netreul notification and i think other users didn't yet notice that the issue with changehero has been resolved and that their feedbacks are no more appropriate. All the feedbacks about not using an escrow have been removed after the campaign paied first week .
Let's see what will happen next .
As am wearing the signature of BestChange since the biggenning of its campaign, i have been always inteested about the open accusations against the reputation of the project representer who is also managing the campaign.
I posted three days ago after the update about the case been resolved with the accused exchange and many DT users reviewed their feedback, but some others still not. I post this to bump the topic and get more opinions about the actual situation of BestChange .
Am not affiliated with bestchange project. This is not the reputation thread of bestchange. I aim to start the discussion again about it as no one seems to care about the red marks in its reputation even the manager himself who is, until now, mainly focusing on doing his job in a professional way.
I am wearing their signature since three weeks and still see how difficult to rate bestchange from different opinions (negative to neutreul) made for almost the same reason. Does there a valid reason for the actual negative trusts and flag?
I will close the topic once get a clear response .

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examplens
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February 10, 2020, 01:43:13 PM
 #2

OP, I did not see that you are leaving feedback and support/oppose the flag.
Whatever.
there are some contradictory things here. Thread, where they are accused of that helped with the fraud $21k. Though they never had a direct connection to this disputable transactions.
Now this thread going to be opposition to itself because of Bestchange mediated and helped this problem to be solved.

..
Am not affiliated with bestchange project. This is not the reputation thread of bestchange. I aim to start the discussion again about it as no one seems to care about the red marks in its reputation even the manager himself who is, until now, mainly focusing on doing his job in a professional way.
I am wearing their signature since three weeks and still see how difficult to rate bestchange from different opinions (negative to neutreul) made for almost the same reason. Does there a valid reason for the actual negative trusts and flag?
I will close the topic once get a clear response .

You wearing Bestchange signature, so you are affiliated with them. Like me of course, and our opinions can always be considered as a paid shill.

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coupable
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February 10, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
 #3

OP, I did not see that you are leaving feedback and support/oppose the flag.
Should i ?

You wearing Bestchange signature, so you are affiliated with them. Like me of course, and our opinions can always be considered as a paid shill.
Anyone can consider whatever he wants, am not responsible for what he may underdtand.
What i wanted to say by "not affiliated" is that i am not get paid to post about the reputation of bestchange profile as i don't think necessary to consider creating another account, for example, just to post about this because am wearing its signature .

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February 10, 2020, 03:37:43 PM
Merited by Bitcoin_Arena (1)
 #4

The issue has been resolve and as @best_change explanation it's just frozen account and the money has been claimed by the owner. So I really believe that my fellow DT should remove or at least make their feedback a neutral one, and the flag that has been created should be deleted or at least should be oppose by other DT.

For me it seems unfair that the one who accuse best_change and changehero fix the issue but, the reputation of best change here on our forum has not yet been fix and seems some DT forget about it or don't care about it anymore.

I just want to be transparent to anyone, the accusation has been made and it's been proven to everybody that they are not scammer, so simply removing negative feedback or at least making it a neutral one will be good and will give no harm to everyone.

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February 10, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Merited by No HATE (1)
 #5

The situation was resolved and the 21k was returned to the person who had the issue.

The only thing that seems to still be a small issue is the fact that someone is complaining interest should be paid on the 21k. One could make an argument both ways on that issue but really not enough to keep a flag open or keep the red trust on the profile.

Everyone who has red tagged the exchange (for the scam accusation) should probably read the initial thread and the latest update showing the claim has been settled and could probably revise their trust to neutral or nothing.

Now as far as the promoting fake exchangers claims and deleting neg feedbacks claims, I cannot read Russian language so I cannot really comment on that.

Also as examplens said, you are affiliated with them because you are wearing their signature. You are paid to make this post as well. They may not have asked you to post this, but you have and are being paid by doing it.





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February 10, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
 #6

Opinions won't change no matter what happens. This is why even Yahoo said that this DT system is worth nothing these days and the trust rating that adds nothing but shit comments has now become the trend of the forum. Even I had been worried about the situation Bestchange had been into, but after they managed to return the funds to the customer SergeyMalar, I don't see any possible reasons to keep those red tags. What's more commendable is the fact that no DT counter-trusted them even after the resolution was made.

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February 10, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
 #7

Also as examplens said, you are affiliated with them because you are wearing their signature. You are paid to make this post as well. They may not have asked you to post this, but you have and are being paid by doing it.
I can understand your point yahoo622. Thank you for replying.
But, as i stated, i will be paid for wearing bestchange signature while posting wherever in the forum and not for posting about this specific case or in any other specific topic. No one asked me to post about this subject or offered me paiement. I post this subject in a new thread simply because i didn't get a reply for more than week in the old thread and because i want to get sure that am not promoting a scam and that the actual red feedbacks are not appropriate.
I wished the discussion to be about bestchange trust and promised to close it once get some clear opinions. I also think it's allowed to post about this even i am wearing their signature. I would do the same thing if am not affiliated with the project, for an honest reason.

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February 10, 2020, 11:59:30 PM
 #8

I personally thought the way they were treated because the had refused to use escrow was a bit harsh. People rained tags on them instead of first giving them a benefit of doubt and my reasoning was if they have refused to use escrow and you don't trust them then avoid the campaign until you see if they really pay in a few weeks.

And then came the Sergey incident where his money was held by changehero, again they were on spotlight even more that the actual culprits who were holding Sergey's money. I think some people where trying to prove a point of their earlier negative feedback about not using escrow, something like 'you see? i told you so'

Some few people reverted their feedback to neutral, Unfortunately we all can't think alike, so, i don't think any more parties will change their decision even after certain issues have been resolved.


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February 11, 2020, 11:23:19 PM
 #9

And then came the Sergey incident where his money was held by changehero, again they were on spotlight even more that the actual culprits who were holding Sergey's money. I think some people where trying to prove a point of their earlier negative feedback about not using escrow, something like 'you see? i told you so'
I agree with this point, while i may not have the same agree of leaving a negative feedback based on expectations .
I still can't understand why trusted community doesn't really care about destroying the reputation of a project when we all know what does it really mean to have a good reputation in bitcointalk forum. As well as i cannot resume what should has be done to prove the innocence of the project from all the active accusations .

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February 12, 2020, 12:04:45 AM
 #10

These are the accounts that are still not revising their feed back.

imhoneer, YOSHIE, TMAN, Hueristic, JollyGood.


JollyGood
Quote
BEWARE - this user has no history on the forum but created a signature bounty without escrow

Furthermore, this user watched from the sidelines WITHOUT entering the conversation when users discussed bestchange. Instead this user sent PMs to its supporters rather than have an open transparent debate therefore not definitely not trustworthy.

They already paid the signature, you might want to check, they are actually on the 3rd week now might continue longer and you know they replied in the scam accusation but they don't sit 24 hours to reply in every comment, their reply were complete and based on facts.

YOSHIE
Quote
promoting fraudulent exchange sites, see References

seriously, promoting fraudulent site just because you don't like that they are in partner with?
Bestchange replied using legal terms, while you make a comment based on your personal opinion.



The rest who tagged bestchange just follow what these two as they are not actively engaging in the discussion.

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February 12, 2020, 03:17:31 PM
 #11

The issue has been resolve and as @best_change explanation it's just frozen account and the money has been claimed by the owner. So I really believe that my fellow DT should remove or at least make their feedback a neutral one, and the flag that has been created should be deleted or at least should be oppose by other DT.
I haven't read everything, but if this is true, I'd say the negative feedback should be removed. This might also help motivate others to do the right thing in a similar situation in the future.
If it becomes clear negative feedback is there to stay even after fixing the accusations, users might be less willing to do the right thing.

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February 13, 2020, 05:25:07 PM
 #12

I haven't read everything, but if this is true, I'd say the negative feedback should be removed. This might also help motivate others to do the right thing in a similar situation in the future.
If it becomes clear negative feedback is there to stay even after fixing the accusations, users might be less willing to do the right thing.
This is more like a personal issue than a negative feedback in necessity. At least that's what I have seen, no, I am not trying to vouch BestChange because I am promoting them. NOTE- I might be wrong, please point out that if I am.

BestChange suggested ChangeHero or something which one user used and get scammed (Solved now). There is a flag created on BestChange profile supported by some respected members. But no flag for ChangeHero who actually scammed. This is like- Tag Yobit promotors but not Yahoo. Sorry but that seems the issue.
There are some negative tag written like "Recommending scam exchange or fake exchange." but again no negative tag on ChangeHero profile yet.

What this can be other than a personal issue? Why no tag on ChangeHero? Did I miss anything?

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February 14, 2020, 03:55:20 AM
 #13

The issue has been resolve and as @best_change explanation it's just frozen account and the money has been claimed by the owner. So I really believe that my fellow DT should remove or at least make their feedback a neutral one, and the flag that has been created should be deleted or at least should be oppose by other DT.
I haven't read everything, but if this is true, I'd say the negative feedback should be removed. This might also help motivate others to do the right thing in a similar situation in the future.
If it becomes clear negative feedback is there to stay even after fixing the accusations, users might be less willing to do the right thing.

I just want to quote the whole thread for any user that will visit this thread, to know that the issue has been resolve and those DT is still not deleting their tag/accusation to the exchange.

Official statement from ChangeHero regarding the case with Sergey M.

On 27/10/2019 supposedly Sergey M. (hereinafter - “the User”) has made two transactions with the web interface of the ChangeHero service (hereinafter - “the Service”).

The first transaction was made at 15:15:12 on 27/10/2019. Exchanged 50 USDT20 to XMR. Finished at 15:52:43.
The second transaction was made at 17:11:44 on 27/10/2019. Exchanged 21,010 USDT20 to XMR. The transaction was automatically put on hold due to AML-system being triggered.

Sequence of interactions with the user
 
The interaction with the User was happening as follows:
On 27/10/2019 at 20:28 the User contacted the Service’s support team through the chat asking for a refund of his assets because he refused to pass the user verification procedure known as KYC (“Know Your Customer”). At 21:04 he was provided with the support team’s email address, where further communication was occuring;
On 29/10/2019 at 15:55, after consulting with legal experts, the Service has decided to continue verification of the User until the circumstances are completely clarified;
On 01/11/2019 at 14:53 after the User’s inquiry, the Service affirmed the refund is possible only after completing the KYC procedure;
On 09/11/2019, as a reply to the previous letter, the User sent an email with his ID, proof of source of part of his funds and screenshots of his exchange account attached to it;
To confirm the User’s identity, on 21/12/2019 a Skype call was made after being repeatedly postponed, through the User’s fault as well.

During the Skype call, the User was asked a few standard questions, which, in our opinion, could serve as a proof of ownership over the funds:
Which cryptocurrency wallet was used by the User to send the funds to the Service;
Which cryptocurrency wallet was used by the User to receive the funds exchanged by the Service;
Why did the User exchanged his funds not directly on the exchange (at the time of transactions, the rates on the exchange were more favorable);
For what activities does the User utilize his exchange account, from which the funds were sent to the Service.
The User was not able to provide an answer to any of these questions and disconnected from the call, claiming he would call back in 15-20 minutes.

To get more information on the case, during a few days from 21/12/2019 until 17/01/2020 the Service sent inquiries to the exchange from which the funds were sent. The information received from the exchange representatives can be summarized as follows:
The funds were indeed sent from their exchange account;
The account shows the signs of “allegedly suspicious activity”;
There were no official inquiries from law enforcement regarding this account.

Closing the case

According to the Terms of Use, on 31/01/2020 at 13:39:43 the Service has made a refund to the outgoing Address 0x975f422840ed3729a5b95a60e454e0826b719f4a, Hash: 0x207cc2a75781aecc9b08d6f7e7bfeadce53ff85c7ee509cc79ea8da1b8477d9f. The address will be blacklisted by the Service, and the User or any further operations connected with this address will be blocked.

Despite the unjustified accusations, all the time since the start of the incident, the User’s funds were on hold on the Service’s payin address, were not sent or used in any other transactions.

Concluding the case

ChangeHero is a non-custodial exchange solution. It does not withhold its users’ assets and balances. It does not require obligatory sign-up.

The Service’s team adheres to the policy of opposing illegal activities, such as fraud, money laundering, as well as suspicious operations and transactions. The Service’s policy will not be changed despite the attempts to influence it through public activities, private e-mail and messaging, Service’s partners etc.

The Service is going to review the communication flow with its customers who refuse to undergo KYC and to resolve similar future cases within 24 hours.

The Service is going to review its Terms of Use to make the conditions of using the Service more clear and understandable to the Users.

The team is sincerely sorry that some of these unjustified accusations and reputation damage were dealt to the BestChange and Indacoin services that have no connection to the transactions in question. We express our gratitude to BestChange and Indacoin for adhering to their Terms of Use and not pressuring ChangeHero to refund the assets in question.






I am still hoping that my fellow DT will do the right thing, or at least somehow they will make a statement why they are not removing their feedback to the exchange that don't do nothing wrong. It's been a long time since the accusation has been proven that the exchange is legit and paying, I am still not sure if they are just ignoring that fact or just didn't see it or care anymore.

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February 14, 2020, 04:50:15 AM
 #14

There is a flag created on BestChange profile supported by some respected members.  
The flag was created by Veleor was already inactive and probably other DT members might remove their tagged too soon. Probably they are not aware of the solved scammed issue on Bestchange.

Quote
What this can be other than a personal issue?
That seems right, but let's hope they will revise even into neutral feedback if they will not remove.

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No HATE
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February 14, 2020, 08:23:05 AM
 #15

None of these people have responded yet (imhoneer, YOSHIE, TMAN, Hueristic, JollyGood.)

They don't deserve to be in DT if they are not making judgment for the benefit of the majority.

Most of you who responded here are DT members, to list the names.

examplens - DT2
Yatsan - DT1
yahoo62278 - DT1 and great campaign manager
Bitcoin_Arena - DT2
LoyceV - D1
sheenshane - DT1




My gosh, where are you people? when there is an accusation you were so active finding all the evidences now that it's settled, you refuse to not look on it.
TalkStar
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February 14, 2020, 09:21:17 AM
 #16

None of these people have responded yet (imhoneer, YOSHIE, TMAN, Hueristic, JollyGood.)
Expecting instant response isn't always fair. Its good to see that bestchange have solved their issue and these DT members negative tag plays the main role here. They can remove their negative trust anytime when they feel it necessary but if they didn't do that than maybe bestchange won't feel it necessary to solve the issue within short time. So i am gonna give a big amount of credit to all these DT members who took their action for a better solution.

They don't deserve to be in DT if they are not making judgment for the benefit of the majority.
Its your cheap thinking and its better not to apply on others. They are holding their positions with the acceptation of their judgement and without you majority number of people have trust on their judgement.
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February 14, 2020, 10:12:35 AM
 #17

Expecting instant response isn't always fair.
The thread was created 4 days ago, am I expecting instant reply?

They don't deserve to be in DT if they are not making judgment for the benefit of the majority.
Its your cheap thinking and its better not to apply on others. They are holding their positions with the acceptation of their judgement and without you majority number of people have trust on their judgement.
Trust rating are important to a business since they like to have a good reputation in the forum they are using to promote their business, do you think they will continue promoting in this forum if the community is not fair? think about that for a second.

You are defending someone who are busy connecting accounts on bounty cheating but don't have the balls to correct their wrong judgement on a more serious matter, is that how DT members suppose to act now? if so, then this system is broken.
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February 14, 2020, 11:43:40 AM
 #18

Expecting instant response isn't always fair.
The thread was created 4 days ago, am I expecting instant reply?
The case has been resolved days before creating this thread .

They don't deserve to be in DT if they are not making judgment for the benefit of the majority.
Its your cheap thinking and its better not to apply on others. They are holding their positions with the acceptation of their judgement and without you majority number of people have trust on their judgement.
Trust rating are important to a business since they like to have a good reputation in the forum they are using to promote their business, do you think they will continue promoting in this forum if the community is not fair? think about that for a second.
I would also like to add the recent comment from the admin [Theymos] concerning negative/positive feedbacks and creating Flags :
The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.
- Leave positive ratings if you actively think that trading with this person is safer than with a random person.
 - Leave negative ratings if you actively think that trading with the person is less safe than with a random person.
 - Unstable behavior could very occasionally be an acceptable reason for leaving negative trust, but if it looks like you're leaving negative trust due to personal disagreements, then that's inappropriate. Ratings are not for popularity contests, virtue signalling, punishing people for your idea of wrongthink, etc.
- Use flags only for very serious and clear-cut things. They're an expression of ostracizing someone from the community due to serious, provable misconduct or really obvious red flags.

It's not just about the reputation of one single user, but more about the reputation of the trust system and the forum's reputation in general.

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Pffrt
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February 14, 2020, 04:50:39 PM
 #19

Expecting instant response isn't always fair. Its good to see that bestchange have solved their issue and these DT members negative tag plays the main role here. They can remove their negative trust anytime when they feel it necessary but if they didn't do that than maybe bestchange won't feel it necessary to solve the issue within short time. So i am gonna give a big amount of credit to all these DT members who took their action for a better solution.
It's better suit if you say "it's good to see Changehero has solved the issue." BestChange isn't directly involved here. In fact, BestChange had nothing to do if changehero wouldn't come with solution. But why no one talks about reputation of Changehero at all? I am sorry if I am missing anything.
Temporarily the neg was good, may be that's what forced to solve the issue. I don't know though but now that the case is closed and DT should remove the tag.

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Balthazar
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February 14, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2020, 08:06:17 PM by Balthazar
 #20

Funds were returned to original owner and I replaced my feedbacks with neutral ones. I don't consider this situation to be resolved though. Instead of giving their sincere excuses to customer for their 90 days long "investigation" they simply banned him. Excuses must be made if we take absence of any feedback into account. They were literally silent during all these 90 days, edited their own terms of usage and began to pretend that user was a kind of empty place for them. Such kind of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable.

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