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Author Topic: Need more opinions about bestchange red trusts.  (Read 904 times)
coupable (OP)
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February 17, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
 #21

They were literally silent during all these 90 days, edited their own terms of usage and began to pretend that user was a kind of empty place for them. Such kind of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable.
I can understand this very well. If there is a valid argument of accusation, then it's surely reasonable to give a negative feedback. I think you made the right decision by changing the trust from negative to neutral after the case has been resolved.
Note that you are the only one who left a feedback for changehero, when other users just tag bestchange.
I still have hope that those DTs are just not aware by the case been resolved and it's just a matter of time. If it's not, then i wish not to see controversial feedbacks and i think they should explain why they keep it negative.
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February 22, 2020, 10:05:53 PM
 #22

I would keep updating this thread until to get an answer. It's hard to believe that none of users who left the feedback had noticed this thread or didn't check the updates in reference threads he uses for his {red} feedbacks .

I mentioned in op that i will close the topic once get a valid reason for the [permanent] red tags in bestchange profile. Honestly, i am really confused about the relyability of the trust system.
Any red tag should be justifief by a valid reference link. This is what i have noticed but some exceptions are really hard to understand.
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February 22, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
 #23

I would keep updating this thread until to get an answer. It's hard to believe that none of users who left the feedback had noticed this thread or didn't check the updates in reference threads he uses for his {red} feedbacks .

I mentioned in op that i will close the topic once get a valid reason for the [permanent] red tags in bestchange profile. Honestly, i am really confused about the relyability of the trust system.
Any red tag should be justifief by a valid reference link. This is what i have noticed but some exceptions are really hard to understand.
Maybe you need to PM these users who haven't removed their negative feedbacks from Bestchange profile. As I understand, accusation against Bestchange already been resolved some time ago, so this situation looks strange. I doubt that they haven't noticed that or this thread. Maybe they think that Bestchange still can't be trusted after all...

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February 23, 2020, 08:35:40 AM
 #24

Maybe you need to PM these users who haven't removed their negative feedbacks from Bestchange profile. As I understand, accusation against Bestchange already been resolved some time ago, so this situation looks strange. I doubt that they haven't noticed that or this thread. Maybe they think that Bestchange still can't be trusted after all...
I thought about to pm them about the situation but prefer to create this thread as i know they all read threads in Reputation board and will surely notice it.
I have just sent PMs to all of them redirecting them to this thread. I don't think this will encourage them to review their feedbacks because user "No Hate" confirmed thst he sent them messages and nothing has changed since that time .

Body of the PM :
Quote
Good Day Sir,
Am contacting you to invite you review your feedback on Bedtchange profile as the cases that were subjects of the tags was already solved.

Please check this thread to resume why am privately contacting you : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224665.0

Thanks
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February 23, 2020, 12:05:05 PM
 #25

I am not sure how good it is to send PM with a request to be revised red feedback. Because of some reason, people do not like unexpected PM's (unless you offer them a well-paid job  Cheesy). it can sometimes have a negative effect, especially if someone has already sent PM with the same request.
For example:
I left neutral feedback on Bestchange profile, and since then I received several PM requests to remove my feedback.
One more for my ignore list.

I guess you would get a better response to this topic if you put subject like: "abusing the trust system in bestchange red trusts case?"

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February 23, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
Last edit: February 23, 2020, 02:59:36 PM by JollyGood
 #26

My negative feedback for BestChange is going to stay because it is very relevant.

If you read thought the tag properly you would know I did not leave negative trust because of the $21,000 scam, I left my negative feedback long before that accusation and my reasons are stated within the trust section: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450

I supported the flag regarding the $21,000 because it clearly stated in teh header of the flag what the accusation was and even though it has been withdrawn I absolutely believe anybody dealing with BestChange does stand a high risk of losing their money. Others can have their own views, I have my own.

And in the OP you stated you were not affiliated with BestChange and then you clarified later by saying you were not paid by them (alluding to starting the thread or trying to have negative trust removed) yet you are paid by them because are displaying their signature and promoting them and it calls your own character in to question. I really do not like it and do not appreciate users that maybe take it upon themselves to make requests or representations for those that pay for their signatures - that conflict of interest seriously damages credibility.

When BestChange send copy and pasted PMs to those that left negative trust asking it to be removed otherwise there was a threat made against us. I ignored that pathetic PM just like the other users that received it. In your case I am posting a reply here, please do not send me any more PMs - thank you.


I would keep updating this thread until to get an answer. It's hard to believe that none of users who left the feedback had noticed this thread or didn't check the updates in reference threads he uses for his {red} feedbacks .

I mentioned in op that i will close the topic once get a valid reason for the [permanent] red tags in bestchange profile. Honestly, i am really confused about the relyability of the trust system.
Any red tag should be justifief by a valid reference link. This is what i have noticed but some exceptions are really hard to understand.

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February 23, 2020, 02:39:39 PM
 #27

Now you have to look at this one post, from the beginning I have said about BestChange.

Quote
I really don't care anymore about the BestChange campaign whether you want to be paid or not.

So right now, if I associate it with the red trust in (BestChange), I can't make a decision because there are 11 DT members currently in it.

I respect their decision in this matter.

For now I am just waiting for the results of the 11 DT, against (BestChange). In making a decision to delete or not. red trust

So now I have explained the point of the problem now.

The red paint I gave for BestChange based on: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219339.msg53670911#msg53670911

So, please don't send me PM again, I'm afraid I won't have time to read, thank you.

R


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February 23, 2020, 06:58:22 PM
 #28

JollyGood, YOSHIE
Thank you so much for replying here. It means a lot for me that you reacted over my pm. I wasn't intended to bother you.
Great sorry to others i have messaged if my message was annoying in any way.

From the biggenning, i didn't want to pm you all as i know most of you frequently read and reply in threads in this board but i was really confused with contradict opinions in this case and all the replies in this thread made by sers i used to trust in their opinions added more confusion in my head. Maybe this is why i followed the suggestion of LTU-btc to pm you who still keeping their feedbacks negative as a last try to understand the situation.
Usually, i have interest to check ambiguse details of the project i promote in my signature, and in this case the issue is about negative trust in project manager trust page made by users i used to trust in their opinions and their good willingness for the best of this community. This is why i insisted to get an answer and updated this thread frequently to get the answer instead of annoying you by pm. Yes i wear bestchange signature and get paid for every post i made but none the BM or the team behind asked me or paid me to post about this issue. BestChange representer seems careless about the issue and didn't even participate in this discussion and i can assure that i created this topic to answer questions wondering in my head and i mentioned that i will close it once get an answer.
I am not about to accuse anybody or make a drama debate.

I will keep this thread opened until tomorrow if someone wants to add any note then close it. Am satisfied with recent comments and understand why those users keep their feedbacks negative.
Great thanks to anyone who replied here.
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February 23, 2020, 10:03:54 PM
Merited by coupable (2)
 #29

My negative feedback for BestChange is going to stay because it is very relevant.

If you read thought the tag properly you would know I did not leave negative trust because of the $21,000 scam, I left my negative feedback long before that accusation and my reasons are stated within the trust section: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450


@JollyGood I really respect what are you doing on this forum, in most cases I agree with you but I'm not sure about this case.

Your negative feedback posted before "$21k accusation" says "BEWARE - this user has no history on the forum but created a signature bounty without escrow"
I don't think that running a signature campaign without escrow deserve the red tag. especially considering that they already paid out five consecutive weeks without any delay or excuses. I confirm that.
In your reference post, I find the only discussion about escrow and whether they have the money for such a campaign, and I think is not a proper reference.
Rigid attitude on the campaign/escrow issue leads to the wrong side. But still here is a lot of new campaign without escrow on a daily basis, just check the altcoin section.

Also, you say in feedback: "Furthermore, this user watched from the sidelines WITHOUT entering the conversation when users discussed bestchange. Instead this user sent PMs to its supporters rather than have an open transparent debate therefore not definitely not trustworthy."

Can you link me to this discussion? I know for BestChange ANN thread, but I don't see any constructive discuss there initiated by the dissatisfied user.

When BestChange send copy and pasted PMs to those that left negative trust asking it to be removed otherwise there was a threat made against us. I ignored that pathetic PM just like the other users that received it. In your case I am posting a reply here, please do not send me any more PMs - thank you.

OP, I already said in my previous post on this topic about sending PM, it is not the right way. IDK why Bestchange do that, I want to believe they are new in the forum discussion and really wants to improve his trust here.

Now you have to look at this one post, from the beginning I have said about BestChange.

Quote
I really don't care anymore about the BestChange campaign whether you want to be paid or not.

So right now, if I associate it with the red trust in (BestChange), I can't make a decision because there are 11 DT members currently in it.

I respect their decision in this matter.

For now I am just waiting for the results of the 11 DT, against (BestChange). In making a decision to delete or not. red trust

So now I have explained the point of the problem now.

The red paint I gave for BestChange based on: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219339.msg53670911#msg53670911

So, please don't send me PM again, I'm afraid I won't have time to read, thank you.

So, your opinion depends on the other 11 DT members decision? Isn't trust rating a personal opinion based on evidence and experience? You left both, negative and neutral obviously it seems that you are not sure what is appropriate.
When we talking about evidence, what kind of fraud proves your post in red tag reference? We talking here about BestChange business, not about services listed there.
among other things, their mediation helped to solve the incident with changehero.io. It is a plus, right? Users have someone trusted who will help them to solve "misunderstanding" with exchangers.

It is just my 2 cents in this case, though it can be argued that I'm not rational here because I am paid from Bestchange (even this post will be counted). I just want to be sure whom I promote wearing his signature.

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February 23, 2020, 11:32:58 PM
Merited by examplens (1)
 #30

@ examplens - The link in the feedback goes straight to the thread in question, it is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5217470.0

If you read through that thread the pattern that becomes clear is that one user in particular is coming across as vehemently supporting or backing either BestChange or the signature campaign and their Best_Change user was posting too. The more the conversation became intense between the user in particular and other members the more of a back seat the Best_Change user took. That sort of cowardice is not befitting of a business owner/operator. Furthermore, regardless of whether BestChange are working as a broker or not they should have real terms and conditions or their website along with legal statements about how/if members that click affiliaite websites via their website have protection in the event of scams or other problems.

In my view there is no need for me to deem BestChange as a reliable trustworthy entity. Going purely based on the way they conduct themselves I find them untrustworthy. If you or other users feel that there is no need for concern and find them trustworthy then I am very happy for that. If there are other users that agree with my interpretations or opinions then I am also happy for that too. We are talking about opinions and all opinions are subjective - my opinion has been stated in their feedback and I never expect anybody let alone everybody to agree with me, we are all entitled to our opinions.


@JollyGood I really respect what are you doing on this forum, in most cases I agree with you but I'm not sure about this case.
Thank you friend, I appreciate the feedback. Your good work here in the forum has not gone unnoticed and many people appreciate what you do here too.

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February 23, 2020, 11:46:19 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2020, 12:07:03 AM by Bitcoin_Arena
Merited by coupable (2)
 #31

1. Trust ratings of Changehero.io, the ones who actually withheld the funds

A. Just one neutral from one DT member


B. Inactive flag with some Opposition from DT members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2589379

1. Trust of Bestchanger, accused of Listing Changehero and running a signature campaign without a trust escrow

A. A hail of negative and neutral feedbacks from DT members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450

B. Very active flag that is supported by a number of members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1265

I don't know if i am confusing anything but is this the right way to use the trust?
If Changehero was involved and are the ones who actually blocked a customer's funds then why are they not having any flags and negative trust?

If bestchange made all the best efforts to ensure changehero returned all the customer's funds in hope that they could preserve their reputations which unfortunately has remained negative through ratings then what makes us think that they will have anything to lose next time someone else money gets stuck in one of the exchanges listed on their site?

I have seen the likes of Cloudbet, fortunejack and other popular casino around the forum being complained about by clients time and time again about blocked funds which are sometimes released after "investigations" but i never see any flags left to the accounts if we are to go the bestchange scenario is the basis of creating and supporting flags


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February 24, 2020, 03:11:43 AM
 #32

Thank you for highlighting this issue, I thought I had left negative trust for user Changehero.io after the I read the issue regarding the $21,000 but in any case I just left appropriate feedback.

1. Trust ratings of Changehero.io, the ones who actually withheld the funds

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February 24, 2020, 08:56:34 AM
Last edit: February 26, 2020, 08:49:57 PM by Hueristic
 #33

I have been re-reading all these threads and its a time sink that I'm not willing to continue on right now.

How long did it take for the victim to receive his funds back?

And how long has the red been up?

Sorry I just don't feel this needs to be rushed as I don't seem to remember the victim quandary being rushed by bestchange.

As a Matter of fact I believe the victim would have never been made whole if it were not for the scam thread.

I'll get back to finish my reading when I have the spare time and think I may change to neutral but no promises and if I don't post back here in a week or change my trust then feel free to pm me a reminder.



Added: I haven't fully caught up in this thread yet.

Added: changing to neutral until I can finish reading and remembering what the hell was going on here. Getting a headache from trying to translate shit.

Added (2-26-2020: I don't trust them at all as they still have changelly listed even to this day.

Funny disclaimer they post when they know changelly violated their own terms. This is black and white not even debatable.


https://www.bestchange.com/monero-to-bitcoin.html
Quote
Exchanger reliability

You can trust all exchangers listed here. The BestChange.com monitoring service contains only reliable exchangers verified by our administrator. All of them have high business levels, good reserves and enough experience in the exchange business. Before you start exchanging money, we recommend that you pay attention to the WebMoney BL and Perfect Money TS of the exchanger and the number of comments (you can see it in the information tip).


Obviously the above on their website is a complete lie.


But I am going to keep the trust as neutral as I don't have the time to deal with this shit.




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February 25, 2020, 12:26:46 AM
 #34

Another DT has remove the negative trust which is the right thing to do, DTs can put a trust(positive or negative) based on their opinion but since you are in the DT network that opinion is very important and could hurt the reputation of the account you are tagging, please consider all the evidences and explanation of the account you had tagged, remember that they are new here, trying to build their business so welcome them instead of being harsh to them. why I say so?


YOSHIE's feedback is like this :

Quote
promoting fraudulent exchange sites, see References

This has been answered by bestchange already.

Unfortunately, it’s also possible to understand the exchanger, because if the funds were indeed obtained illegitimately, they will be held responsible for helping fraudsters/drug dealers or the like.

On the other hand, the exchanger has not yet provided any serious evidence for their suspicions, just their subjective opinion.

~snip~


Claiming that the exchanges are fraudulent is wrong, the way you think is different than what a business thinks, they act based on the evidence and abide the law, even if the exchange has a bad reputation but they are don't violate the law, business is still good with bestchange and the exchange.

Other DT members had already remove the negative trust because they are satisfied with the resolution, will you try to review the reply once again.



On JollyGood feedback

Quote
BEWARE - this user has no history on the forum but created a signature bounty without escrow
Shouldn't this one be remove already, BC has been consistently paying the campaign without delay.

Quote
Furthermore, this user watched from the sidelines WITHOUT entering the conversation when users discussed bestchange. Instead this user sent PMs to its supporters rather than have an open transparent debate therefore not definitely not trustworthy.

Hilarious, home come this is a scammy behavior? you aren't using the trust system properly JollyGood

read again.
Quote
Negative - You think that trading with this person is high-risk.

Just because they are not actively replying every post, you think they are scam, you can't make this reasoning in the court.
Please stop ruining people's business, I admire you but this one is too much which is not right anymore.
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February 25, 2020, 12:35:59 PM
Last edit: June 08, 2020, 06:43:32 PM by JollyGood
Merited by Hueristic (2)
 #35

~snip~

Added: I haven't fully caught up in this thread yet.

Added: changing to neutral until I can finish reading and remembering what the hell was going on here. Getting a headache from trying to translate shit.

To be honest you are not missing much here. There have been multiple attempts by BestChange to either directly or indirectly ask users to change/remove their feedback. The whole premise of the thread is that it was created with a view to have all negative trust for BestChange removed. Though the OP claimed he was not an affiliate he evidently is a campaign participant - hence the conflict of interest here.

My negative feedback will remain. They might have a big band of users promoting their services via a signature campaign but that means nothing to me. I certainly do not trust them and will never use their services therefore cannot recommend them to anybody else. Their behaviour by sending semi-threatening PMs to users that left negative trust was low thing to do. As was them watching from the sidelines as another user was fighting their corner for them in a previous thread.

For those that removed negative trust or modified it from red to neutral - I understand and accept they have their reasons to do it therefore I have nothing further to comment on it as they have a right to do what they feel is the best course of action. I also have a right to do what I feel is the best course of action therefore my negative trust will remain. In future if there are no complaints against BestChange and if they add real solid terms and conditions along with a ownership/LLC details and provide real legal protection to users - then I might revisit the issue and revise my trust but for now I will not change or modify it.




On JollyGood feedback

Quote
BEWARE - this user has no history on the forum but created a signature bounty without escrow
Shouldn't this one be remove already, BC has been consistently paying the campaign without delay.

Quote
Furthermore, this user watched from the sidelines WITHOUT entering the conversation when users discussed bestchange. Instead this user sent PMs to its supporters rather than have an open transparent debate therefore not definitely not trustworthy.

Hilarious, home come this is a scammy behavior? you aren't using the trust system properly JollyGood

read again.
Quote
Negative - You think that trading with this person is high-risk.

Just because they are not actively replying every post, you think they are scam, you can't make this reasoning in the court.
Please stop ruining people's business, I admire you but this one is too much which is not right anymore.

This is my first and last reply to you.

I read your feedback and looked through some of your posts and cannot understand why you have not been tagged with red trust rather than the neutral you have received because of your trolling and highly suspicious conduct.

I am not sure what you game is here but I have added you to my IGNORE list and left appropriate feedback as you are clearly untrustworthy.

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