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Author Topic: Do we need merit sources for low ranks?  (Read 489 times)
GazetaBitcoin
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February 13, 2020, 01:06:47 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), bones261 (4), The Pharmacist (3), ChiBitCTy (2), Heisenberg_Hunter (1)
 #1

I kept thinking about this lately.

I know merit sources are generally thorough with analyzing posts from all ranks, as they should be.

However, I was thinking if it would be a good idea to have merit sources dedicated only to low ranks (Newbies and Jr. Members), from the following reasons:

- I saw often that merit sources keep saying they are out of sMerits. Sometimes this implies not just without the sMerits received for being merit sources, but also without the sMerits they received as being regular users. Thus, I think there are either too few merit sources or their sMerits received for being merit sources is too low. Having merit sources looking only for low rank members would imply: (1) more merit sources and (2) a certain amount of merit going directly to low rank members. If the current merit sources give their sMerits to all ranks, once they are out of sMerits they can't give merit to a low rank member, even if they would intend to do that (of course, considering the respective user has a post deserving a merit).

- considering that current merit sources remain very often without sMerits, if there is a number of such sources dedicated only to lower ranks, all the other merit sources could concentrate eventually on higher ranks. For example: a merit source won't have the feeling of "guilty conscience" in case he / she wants to merit a low rank user and he / she remained without sMerits, knowing that even if he / she can't award himself / herself the respective user, several merit sources dedicated to low ranks are out there and there are high chances that the respective user will still be rewarded.

What do you think?

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February 13, 2020, 01:18:10 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2020, 04:22:41 PM by Rikafip
Merited by mprep (2), LoyceV (2)
 #2

I  heard merit sources complaining that they have issues finding low ranked members with posts worth meriting, so somehow I doubt merit source specifically dedicated for lower rank is a good idea. Sounds to me like a lot of hassle and work.

Few months ago theymos increased merit allocation for active merit sources and removed inactive ones. Something like that is more elegant solution, imo.

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February 13, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
 #3

Sources have their own style to send their sourced merits and I guess they probably feel more easily to send their smerits to lower ranks if posters make something good. It is a shame to have same demand of quality for all ranks, from low to high.
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February 13, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #4

I kept thinking about this lately.

I know merit sources are generally thorough with analyzing posts from all ranks, as they should be.

However, I was thinking if it would be a good idea to have merit sources dedicated only to low ranks (Newbies and Jr. Members), from the following reasons:

- I saw often that merit sources keep saying they are out of sMerits. Sometimes this implies not just without the sMerits received for being merit sources, but also without the sMerits they received as being regular users. Thus, I think there are either too few merit sources or their sMerits received for being merit sources is too low. Having merit sources looking only for low rank members would imply: (1) more merit sources and (2) a certain amount of merit going directly to low rank members. If the current merit sources give their sMerits to all ranks, once they are out of sMerits they can't give merit to a low rank member, even if they would intend to do that (of course, considering the respective user has a post deserving a merit).

- considering that current merit sources remain very often without sMerits, if there is a number of such sources dedicated only to lower ranks, all the other merit sources could concentrate eventually on higher ranks. For example: a merit source won't have the feeling of "guilty conscience" in case he / she wants to merit a low rank user and he / she remained without sMerits, knowing that even if he / she can't award himself / herself the respective user, several merit sources dedicated to low ranks are out there and there are high chances that the respective user will still be rewarded.

What do you think?

I started topic in my local Croatian section where anybody (high or low ranks) can report their good quality posts and receive merits.
I always had enough merits for this purpose and sometimes other members also join and give their merits.
I even started similar topic (merit giveaway for newbie and jr members  ) in the beginners section of the forum but looked it because only a few users  applied.
So, in my opinion we have enough merit source but not enough good posts which deserve merits.

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February 13, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2), Heisenberg_Hunter (1), TalkStar (1)
 #5

Probably, it's a good idea to increase the merit sources but to specify merit sources for low rank members isn't really a necessary. Merit sources know when to spend their sMerits with the right person to receive. I am not saying that low rank members aren't posting quality contents, but merits are deserved by those who strive to provide contents worthy enough to contribute with formality and thoughts with their posts.

In addition, merit sources providing merits to high ranking members who posted good and quality content isn't the end whether they've spend all their sMerits to these members.

I am pretty sure that high ranking members knows the protocol as well, so they could help those low ranking members to earn merits earned from merit sources.

In short, the best system we have now for me is enough, and if there would be something to modify, that would probably be increasing the number of merit sources we have now.

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February 13, 2020, 01:32:27 PM
 #6

If you'll have MS dedicated for lower ranks, then there must be MS dedicated for higher ranks too Cheesy but I'm just kidding. Seriously, there is no need for that. Merit sources knows their job well which is to find quality or constructive post and help some deserving members to rank up.

I also heared merit sources complaining that they have issues finding low ranked members with posts worth meriting, so somehow I doubt merit source specifically dedicated for lower rank is a good idea. Sounds to me like a lot of hassle and work.
I can't say that they are complaining but I read some saying that it's hard. The reason why some merit giveaway threads exists is to give more chance to lower rank members gain merits for their quality posts and some even have a specific rank required like full-members and below. Sadly though, it seems only a few are interested.  


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February 13, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
Merited by Halab (2), Heisenberg_Hunter (1)
 #7

I don't really understand why people make it sound like it is only the Merit Sources who can give away Merits to quality posts, while that is not true. There are hundreds or thousands of active members in this forum, and most of them would definitely have at least a few sMerits to give away if they come across a post they find worthy of it. So I don't think that it is because we have less Merit Sources if a post, from a user belonging to any rank, gets no Merits at all -- but the reason behind that can only be the unworthiness of that post, otherwise, I doubt that anyone having sMerits on them wouldn't have seen it and ignored it.

Merit Sources are only to increase the Merits circulating in the system, and are not on a mission to specifically search and merit posts from users of a specific rank.
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February 13, 2020, 01:45:45 PM
 #8

I don't think it's really needed, some merit sources already known to give more merit to low ranked member or have lower "requirement" if the poster is low ranked member.
Even constructive question made by low ranked member are merited by few merit sources.

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February 13, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
Merited by Heisenberg_Hunter (1), TalkStar (1)
 #9

My issue is not with running out of merit, but with there not being that many meritorious posts from newbies.

I almost always spend all my source sMerits within 24 hours of them being replenished, and often even sooner than that. I always make sure I have a small handful of my own sMerits on hand specifically to award good newbies. While 1 or 2 merits might not make much difference to a Senior Member (for example), they can make a big difference to a newbie. I also have a custom patrol page set up which shows me recent newbie posts in only non-spammy boards - it pretty much excludes all altcoin boards and local boards which I can't read - which I view several times a day. I keep a close eye on Loyce's Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source thread, and I also look at all the merit giveaway threads I see.

I have a much lower threshold for meriting newbies. I'm happy to rank up any newbie who is here for the right reasons - to learn and discuss, and not just spam - even if their posts aren't that good.

Despite all this, I usually only find less than 10 newbies per month to send merit to.

Whenever a good newbie shows up, they have no problem rapidly acquiring merit and ranking up. I don't think the issues is the lack of merits for newbies, but rather the lack of newbies making good posts.

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February 13, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
 #10


Whenever a good newbie shows up, they have no problem rapidly acquiring merit and ranking up. I don't think the issues is the lack of merits for newbies, but rather the lack of newbies making good posts.

This. Most of them tend to be looking for earning opportunities so it's best to avoid allocating MS's for these ranks.

If they don't bother to learn the ropes, then they don't deserve the Merits.

Still, I still see Merits dropped on lower ranks from time to time, so there's no shortage.

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February 13, 2020, 03:52:41 PM
 #11

lower ranks members obtain Merits faster than other ranks. usually I give a 1 Merit to everyone who makes an acceptable post/topic "from the lower ranks" and this Merit becomes more difficult with the rank increases.

Finally, Merits sent by MS are used again "half the number (sMerits)" by the members who obtain them, so the distribution will be good.

Distribution of Merit sources is often related to active boards, local language, Useful content and enrichment of the fourm, and not ranks.

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February 13, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
 #12


Whenever a good newbie shows up, they have no problem rapidly acquiring merit and ranking up. I don't think the issues is the lack of merits for newbies, but rather the lack of newbies making good posts.

This. Most of them tend to be looking for earning opportunities so it's best to avoid allocating MS's for these ranks.

If they don't bother to learn the ropes, then they don't deserve the Merits.

Still, I still see Merits dropped on lower ranks from time to time, so there's no shortage.

Isn't the below statement of yours in contradiction with what you just said?

That's not what I've seen. But if you stumble upon new users who make good posts and haven't received Merit yet, please post them in Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. I'm still looking for a couple hundred good posts to finally empty my sMerit stash Tongue

Based on my observations, it does happen Wink

But hey, it's their rights to give whoever they please. And there are Merit giveaway threads from time to time so newbies still have a chance.

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February 13, 2020, 05:05:44 PM
 #13


Isn't the below statement of yours in contradiction with what you just said?


Not really. No doubt there are some posts that go unnoticed, but then there are members that happen to drop by and give out Merits.

And then the giveaway threads.

After all, Merits are given out on free will.

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February 13, 2020, 05:33:16 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #14

No. This is asking to either have a lot of abuse or a situation in which it would appear there is a lot of abuse (which would make actual abuse more difficult to detect). The majority of lower rank users post nothing other than crap and don’t deserve merit.

I have given out hundreds of merit based on merit (no pun intended), and most of the time, lower rank users are not deserving of receiving merit. If I was a merit source, I would give out merit based on if a lot of effort is put into the post, if the post makes a good point, if the post presents an interesting perspective, if the post is one that “we want more of” and similar reasons. I would not base sending merit on if they are a low rank, the only exception being if they make generally very strong posts and need merit to rank up to a high rank.  If merit sources follow this (I believe they mostly do, with few exceptions) low ranked users will naturally rank up.

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February 13, 2020, 05:39:45 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #15

I do like this idea not just because it will bring more chances to earn merits for lower rank members but also it will create different levels of standards for meriting a post. For now, if a newbie wants to get merits he should make extraordinary knowledgeable and useful posts but with higher ranks, it is not the case most of the time.But this logic is totally upside down right,how can we expect a real newbie to post such things,if there is a newbie doing then he is not really a newbie at least to crypto related things.

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February 13, 2020, 06:10:09 PM
Merited by GazetaBitcoin (2), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #16

I disagree (a bit): Merit is meant for posts, not for users. If a high ranking user makes a good post, they deserve Merit.
The idea is that Merit trickles down from there to other users, as long as those users share their sMerit to other good posts.

I wrote "a bit", because I actually have much lower standards for Newbies already: all I'm looking for is believing it's a real user (so not a bounty spammer with many different accounts), and if that's the case, I believe they shouldn't be restricted by the Merit system. I usually check for plagiarism too, just to be sure.
I am a bit in a luxurious-burden position though to say this, being the 6th most generous all time merit sender, currently ranking second in the last 30 days. Whenever I have a bit of a busy day, my source sMerit instanly piles up.

If I was a merit source, I would give out merit based on if a lot of effort is put into the post, if the post makes a good point, if the post presents an interesting perspective, if the post is one that “we want more of” and similar reasons. I would not base sending merit on if they are a low rank, the only exception being if they make generally very strong posts and need merit to rank up to a high rank.  If merit sources follow this (I believe they mostly do, with few exceptions) low ranked users will naturally rank up.
Low ranking users need only 2 things:
1. Make good posts
2. People with sMerit to give have to read them
The first point is up to them, the second will happen eventually, but there are also enough options to draw attention to their posts.

For now, if a newbie wants to get merits he should make extraordinary knowledgeable and useful posts but with higher ranks
The rare Newbie with extraordinary posts will have no problem ranking up. See bullrun2020bro for example. For any other Newbies, I've merited posts that I wouldn't have Merited if they'd be high ranking already. See this, this or this example.




The number of posts per week has been dropping for a very long time now, while more sMerit is sent. That means more sMerit per post, so ranking up should be less difficult now than it was a year ago.

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February 13, 2020, 06:25:40 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2), GazetaBitcoin (2), taufik123 (1)
 #17

This will give us a summary of which ranks merited which other ranks between 01/02/2020 and 07/02/2020 2:47 GMT:
https://public.tableau.com/shared/DTW352X27?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

Code:
Rank/Role                     nMeritsReceived               %
Administrator                 16                            0,30%
Global Moderator              15                            0,28%
Staff                         78                            1,46%
Donator                       20                            0,37%
Legendary                     1285                          23,98%
Hero Member                   1691                          31,55%
Sr. Member                    966                           18,03%
Full Member                   596                           11,12%
Member                        311                           5,80%
Jr. Member                    200                           3,73%
Newbie                        181                           3,38%
                                                            0,00%
Total                         5359                          100,00%

The data shows an uncontextualized view of the merits received per rank on aggregate for the most recent week of data that I have for this month. Looking at the numbers there, Newbie+Jr. Member + Member total 692 earned merits (12,91% of all earned merits in the timeframe). The figure seems small in comparison to some other ranks, but to be honest, the content that I personally encounter does not postulate to merits that often, for many posters belonging to those ranks.

Those who are decent enough should stand-out pretty quickly, and eventually they should be merited by someone. I do find that I personally am a bit more wary of lower ranks that post well, and I may wait to see the poster creating content for a little while before rushing to the press the merit button (specially on my local board). I do tend to have a more relaxed criteria when considering whether to merit or not a lower rank, but also find it hard to merit further on from the first repetitive answer.

I don’t think we really need to specifically have merit sourced focused on specific ranks, but sometimes new merit sources will bring diversity in terms of rewarding, and the more eyes on the field the better I figure (but again, not specifically with a rank-based focus).

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February 14, 2020, 07:26:41 AM
 #18

This will give us a summary of which ranks merited which other ranks between 01/02/2020 and 07/02/2020 2:47 GMT:
https://public.tableau.com/shared/DTW352X27?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

Code:
Rank/Role                     nMeritsReceived               %
Administrator                 16                            0,30%
Global Moderator              15                            0,28%
Staff                         78                            1,46%
Donator                       20                            0,37%
Legendary                     1285                          23,98%
Hero Member                   1691                          31,55%
Sr. Member                    966                           18,03%
Full Member                   596                           11,12%
Member                        311                           5,80%
Jr. Member                    200                           3,73%
Newbie                        181                           3,38%
                                                            0,00%
Total                         5359                          100,00%

The data shows an uncontextualized view of the merits received per rank on aggregate for the most recent week of data that I have for this month. Looking at the numbers there, Newbie+Jr. Member + Member total 692 earned merits (12,91% of all earned merits in the timeframe). The figure seems small in comparison to some other ranks, but to be honest, the content that I personally encounter does not postulate to merits that often, for many posters belonging to those ranks.

Those who are decent enough should stand-out pretty quickly, and eventually they should be merited by someone. I do find that I personally am a bit more wary of lower ranks that post well, and I may wait to see the poster creating content for a little while before rushing to the press the merit button (specially on my local board). I do tend to have a more relaxed criteria when considering whether to merit or not a lower rank, but also find it hard to merit further on from the first repetitive answer.

I don’t think we really need to specifically have merit sourced focused on specific ranks, but sometimes new merit sources will bring diversity in terms of rewarding, and the more eyes on the field the better I figure (but again, not specifically with a rank-based focus).


Very interesting info;  thank you.
I think it's normal that lower ranks receive less merits.
They don't have enough experience and knowledge to write good quality posts.
I also,  as others, trying to help them with merits but I can't lower my standarda to much because it will not be fair toward other members and their posts.
New members have to make some effort to educate themselves,  learn new things and than share their knowledge and experience in the forum.
It's not good way just to beg for merits without making real effort to deserve it.

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February 14, 2020, 08:02:11 AM
 #19

Forcing a merit source to merit only specific ranks is counter-productive and which is why I think such a idea would not be followed up.

A merit source's job is to go through posts and merit those that are worth their time and having something substantial to talk about. If you force them to only merit certain ranks then they would have a hard time completing their merit quota or end up diving the distribution of merit in a wrong way if the ranks being talked about start spamming meta with their "Give me merit but I dont ask for it" threads - which I am sure almost every other older member here has seen and become sick of reading.

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February 14, 2020, 08:48:57 AM
 #20

Forcing a merit source to merit only specific ranks is counter-productive and which is why I think such a idea would not be followed up.

A merit source's job is to go through posts and merit those that are worth their time and having something substantial to talk about. If you force them to only merit certain ranks then they would have a hard time completing their merit quota or end up diving the distribution of merit in a wrong way if the ranks being talked about start spamming meta with their "Give me merit but I dont ask for it" threads - which I am sure almost every other older member here has seen and become sick of reading.
I don’t think we really need to specifically have merit sourced focused on specific ranks, but sometimes new merit sources will bring diversity in terms of rewarding, and the more eyes on the field the better I figure (but again, not specifically with a rank-based focus).
Indeed. It would be too subjective and would not be that effective. Giving merits can also be a person's reputation, as if one give merits to a non-sense post do somehow also means that he/she tolerate such actions. Also, having many trusted users to give merit to threads/posts or users they think worth and deserve the merit would just be messy and somehow useless as there were in fact a variation of different user's perspective on what is a useful post, a helpful and informative post, or even a funny one.

Low-ranks, even I myself, must not focus on gaining merit. But instead achieve greater and useful ideas by continue doubting and looking for a new knowledge to be further explored.

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