Banks are killing us! Fund a pilot project (no ICO) completely in BTC???

[XCANA]

I wonder who can entrust a stranger funds to get project execution because of what is going on in the industry, many things have happened which taught many lessons concerning startups business or projects. There have been many project failures which lead to investors losing their many in the process, sometimes half of the funds refunded back to investors.

Kindly find another means to get fund for your start-up because, building a project from the start should be done partly from initiators or inventor fund raise for the project. Although, I wishes you and the project a successful end.

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[cosmicrays]

Banks will not win this war. Their system is already falling apart and in the future they will only collapse.

[BtcATMs]

Thanks to everyone. I knew there was a lot of skepticism out there from the ICO's, but I really didn't realize how risk-averse most people seem to be now.

In private equity, the most you can do is look at the big picture, find the downside and protect your downside (mitigate risk). At the VC stage, EVERY project looks the same and it is IMPOSSIBLE to know who the big winner will be. Ex. Candy Crush vs. Bluejelli (two gaming apps, the first with 1,000x return, the second a complete dud). But there are 4 ways to mitigate risk: Risk Acceptance, Risk Limitation, Risk Transference & Risk avoidance (the most expensive of all risk mitigation options). You can limit risk by limiting allocation, which is why I am seeking a process to micro-fund the project to create a provable model (which could transfer to unrelated projects, for example, a microfarm).

To clarify a bit, I am not asking for any money (at least not yet, and maybe it will stay private, the project currently requires Qualified Investors which I don't expect to find here). I am just researching for a better process to do so if we do get to that point, or maybe even a process that could be used with my own private group of investors.

Anyway, it is all a big help with the ongoing research, especially suggestions like the verified escrow, using the securities board, etc. so thanks again.

[BTMBitcoinVN]

To clarify a bit, I am not asking for any money (at least not yet, and maybe it will stay private, the project currently requires Qualified Investors which I don't expect to find here). I am just researching for a better process to do so if we do get to that point, or maybe even a process that could be used with my own private group of investors.

Hi,

While we are not sure in which market you are looking to launch your project, you might want to look how we conducted our fundraise on here last year [now closed; for our next round we probably will consider a different approach due to scale]:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5198437.0

However, that said we had of course an easier situation due to the backing by Vietnam's leading Bitcoin Exchange BitcoinVN which has been around since 2014 as well as operational experience of running Bitcoin ATM's since 2016; so the situation is not fully comparable to a "newcomer" starting out.

Still you might maybe find a few useful items / ideas on there. 

[boyptc]

Don't you have funds from your pocket to start with? I think that's the best that you can do now or try to get some loan and get it run all by yourself. Having a startup business is hard and it's even harder because it's related to crypto.

The struggle you have faced of gathering funds from investors is normal because of the past years that we had. I still see some angel investors who are willing to take the risk together with the developers as long as the project was proposed properly.

Thanks. Yes, I can get the funds and I understand the skepticism of "throwing" money away, however it is micro-funds with no real risk (or to say if the investor is worried about losing a few hundred euro or even a few thousand, that is not the investor I am seeking as they wouldn't have capital to expand).

Again, I am not worried about finding the capital, I only ask the best way it could be done to PROVE the fairness/transparency/security, etc. because of how the ICO market tanked. Basically a way to eliminate all these common concerns for why people say it can't work/ or won't work (escrow/series of rounds, etc.).

I see that you have preferred a specific type of investor and it's just the other way around, just like the investors, they have their prefer kind of project to invest and support.

As long as they find your project o be worth it, legit and beneficial, they'll start to reach you out.

[BtcATMs]

I see that you have preferred a specific type of investor and it's just the other way around, just like the investors, they have their prefer kind of project to invest and support.

As long as they find your project o be worth it, legit and beneficial, they'll start to reach you out.

Thanks. But it HAS to be that way for VC/PE. Most people here have good opinions and good intentions but some don't understand how VC/PE really works. It is not that we "choose" to have Qualified/Accredited investors, it is because regulations DEMAND this for legality (if I raise the capital in a traditional manner). Even with qualified investors, most Banks/EMIs do not allow any crypto related businesses. It can be done through some banks/jurisdictions but it takes extra licensing or a new incorporation (ie. Malta or similar). So I am seeking a way to a) avoid the hassle and restrictions of the bank; b) develop a new model that was worked for transparency/security for the investor as well.

The second part is interesting for me because you can see how many people are skeptical, and how many ICOs failed (I don't want to say they were all scams because I have seen a ton of legit companies fail in my day, 90% of startups don't make it to year 3) so if we developed a strict process, round by round, with a good escrow (or even to avoid the escrow, investors should keep money in their pocket until certain requirements are met).

[adzino]

The bank took a chunk of your money and you probably weren't able to say anything since you were suppose to know about their banking policy. If you didn't know about all these fees, then its your mistake and you are responsible for it. You are using their service and you are supposed to pay them, I don't see anything wrong over here.
I am not aware of any services that allows you to fund a project completely with bitcoin. Also, its quite impossible for you to avoid the bank completely. You will eventually have to use it when working on your project.

[BtcATMs]

To clarify a bit, I am not asking for any money (at least not yet, and maybe it will stay private, the project currently requires Qualified Investors which I don't expect to find here). I am just researching for a better process to do so if we do get to that point, or maybe even a process that could be used with my own private group of investors.

Hi,

While we are not sure in which market you are looking to launch your project, you might want to look how we conducted our fundraise on here last year [now closed; for our next round we probably will consider a different approach due to scale]:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5198437.0

However, that said we had of course an easier situation due to the backing by Vietnam's leading Bitcoin Exchange BitcoinVN which has been around since 2014 as well as operational experience of running Bitcoin ATM's since 2016; so the situation is not fully comparable to a "newcomer" starting out.

Still you might maybe find a few useful items / ideas on there. 

Hi, I should have mentioned our project is starting in Spain. After looking at your project launch it is almost exactly what we want to achieve and very inspiring. As you mention, you have some more clout than we do but it gives us a fresh look and good ideas from  a real project. And because we are "newcomers" I hope we could get some of your advice along the way? Help from people with real world experience is invaluable. Thanks again.

[Maebeo2017]

Think about it from investors point of view - why should they give their bitcoins to strangers, even if they present some very good business plan, if there's always a huge risk that it's just a scam? Banks have legal power to take back what is owed to them, but in Bitcoin there's no such opportunity. If banks don't give you loans, seek angel investors or VC, try some fiat crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter.

Also, there's a board on this forum for pitching your projects to potential investors, you can try your luck there.

Yeah I think poster should look in to this. I mean no real investor would want to take such risk on blind fate, they don't know you so automatically they can't trust you completely especially where there isn't a channel where refund can be made

[BtcATMs]

I supported what you said but I'm a crypto investor will be interested not even when halving is coming. However, i think the OP and his team need to prove their genuinely through getting a license because if they had licensed their previous fund won't have been frozen. Besides, it will boost some investors confidence. In the meantime, you can also make use of indiegogo maybe will be lucky.

Hi, I had some posts removed by answering consecutive posts (sorry mods - I didn't know the rule   )

OP and his team's funds were not frozen - ePayments bank's funds were frozen by the FCA (UK regulator) - apparently due to OneCoin - article here: https://news.bitcoin.com/fca-suspends-epayments-onecoin/


Also, RE; "you will have to sign contracts with them clarifying profit shares" - This is not a problem, an investor can also retain 100% ownership of the machines and we can provide a custom operating agreement to split profit for operating and maintenance. We are very flexible. Or a few owners could spread operating risk and each get a proportionate equity split, a traditional setup which is probably what we will end up doing.

Just surprised they have not worked this out through Bitcoin/blockchain to make it more transparent or automatic (smart contract purchase->operating->dividend).