Bitmain Introduces the S19 and S19 Pro

[MoparMiningLLC]

i think there will be plenty of big farms that will dump current miners and buy these up.

[philipma1957]

Nope I think plenty of big farms will fold if they have not already switched to s17 or s17pro.

If they switched to s17 or s17 pro  they are not going to buy these. But I am wrong a lot.  Maybe I will be wrong here.

[MoparMiningLLC]

we shall see.

[favebook]

Ok seems like my source got the shipping date off by 1 day, and actual prices now are  $2928 for the pro (off by $28), and the S19 is $2184 (off by $84), or maybe that price is for bulk orders, I know bitmain does that, are you aware of when the prices were listed on the Chinese website? because last I checked there were not there.

Prices were up (and selling started) at 14:00 (GMT +8) if I remember correctly. I checked in at 16:30 (GMT +8) and they were still selling with exact prices you just listed here.

Also, I checked fifteen minutes ago and S19 Pro's were sold out while S19 were still up for sale (not 100% sure about current situation).

International shipping has not yet been disclosed nor has been price posted on their English website.

[mikeywith]

Then my post was after they released the prices on their Chinese website, but the strange thing is they knew these prices before 14:00 Beijing time, or at least this is what they told me, they also told me the international delivery for the first batch will not be 11 to 20 May but rather later around early June, if that's true, then I will lean towards thinking that some Chinese do get to sneak peek on things before even other Chinese know about them, let alone none-Chinese miners like ourselves, heck they haven't even listed the K5 miner on their international website yet.

[abeandund]

Has it ever been established what chips are in these s19's.  Is it not possible that these are still 7nm BM1397?  Whatsminer is getting 86 th out of the 8nm?

[freddy2020]

I have a feeling that the S19 pro might be a 5nm model? and the S19 is an updated 7 nm chip. Remember that the 7nm chip has been around since the S15.

It is a bit funny situations when the manufacturers rather not speak too much about the chipsets in public.

I have a feeling that the Whatsminer people used the 10nm for the m20s and m21s models and have now done an update of the same chips, Whatsminer did state in social media that they experienced problems with the wafers and that the expected yield was far off the set-out targets, I suspect this made them move back to 10nm from the 8nm. Hence the poor power efficiency.

Bitmain is clearly ahead and leading the way, the power efficiency is a clearly a good clue/indication to what's inside the machine specs.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15219/early-tsmc-5nm-test-chip-yields-80-hvm-coming-in-h1-2020

[Huxley23]

Has it ever been established what chips are in these s19's.  Is it not possible that these are still 7nm BM1397?  Whatsminer is getting 86 th out of the 8nm?

I highly doubt that those are 5nm chips. Just look at the dimensions, it is much larger than the s17, so I believe they put larger amount of 7nm chips and run them on lower voltage (therefore the lower w/TH).

[freddy2020]

You could be right, but wasn't there a lot of problems in the 17 model with cooling also? 29.5 joules is super efficient, its gotta be a 5nm in there. The weight for the S19Pro is also slighthly lower vs the S19 model.

If its a 5nm first time, exspect a machine improvement within months, a 20 joules machine is not far of the horizons?

[favebook]

You could be right, but wasn't there a lot of problems in the 17 model with cooling also? 29.5 joules is super efficient, its gotta be a 5nm in there. The weight for the S19Pro is also slighthly lower vs the S19 model.

If its a 5nm first time, exspect a machine improvement within months, a 20 joules machine is not far of the horizons?

There was never a wide problem with S17 (any model), there was quite a few PSU problems on S17 Pro (some versions).

It could be that these (S19 models) are still 7nm, but no one knows exactly...

Also, on the other not, S19 is still for sale on Chinese website, while S19 Pro has been sold out.
And they were all limited to 10 per user there so I guess we will see the same when it goes live internationally.

[fccs]

well if I had one today - at current diff/btc price i would bring in about $10.50 a day with about 4.30 for electric so just around $6 per day profit.

once the market is flooded with them - it will drop fast unless btc price climbs.

I'm not sure about flooding but yea exactly $6/day NOW.  Meaning after halving $3/day not to mention how much the difficulty goes up because of this from china farms upgrading.  Then who knows what the price will be or how markets will be.  This is simply a terrible terrible buy.  It's almost laughable how bad of a buy it is.  I am waiting for a next miner release over this one, not to mention with all that's going on, expect huge delays shipping electronics from china.

[philipma1957]

 i will be mining with current gear.
 i will be turning off all s9 gear in may.
 i simply think this gear ⚙️ is worth about 1500 not 2900. and at 1500 I would only buy it if it had multiple speeds not just one.

tomorrow the diff will adjust around 14% in miners favor.

my 2ph becomes 2.28 ph without spending  a time.

I will wait this shit out.

[MoparMiningLLC]

i already sold off half my hash rate and based on the specs/prices of the S19 I am already regretting it. Guess I better keep the half I have and keep mining or sell it and just hodl the btc for now

[DaveF]

A lot of the speed improvements are probably not shrinking chips but getting more efficiency out of the ones that they have now.
Years ago Intel and AMD were doing the same thing. Processors were getting a bit faster and a bit more efficient, not because they were getting the dies smaller or upping the voltage but because they tweaked this and that and could run them better.

Early Pentiums were a good example. Socket 8 -> slot1 -> Socket 370.
Yes the dies got smaller, but they could really ratchet up the speed as other things on the chips changed and the manufacturing process got better, not smaller.

Back in day there were a lot of arguments slot vs. socket.

-Dave

*Yes I do know there were die shrinks I said that above but once they were confident in yields they stopped the slot use.

[minefarmbuy]

Considering Bitmain's increasing distance between their domestic sales and international sales it's making the s19's less lucrative at the current pricing.

[freddy2020]

I will also wait this out, purchasing machines with lead time has proven to be unwise in the past.

Not a good feeling seeing the machine you have paid a huge premium for sale for 50 % less just a few months later. buying with lead time also enables the manufacturer to produce more models, its almost like a customer suicide to give them funds upfront. at least that's what happened with the Whatsminer models m20s and m21s last time around.

the S17+ 73TH for 1500 dollars seems very affordable right now compared to the S19.

[mikeywith]

Considering Bitmain's increasing distance between their domestic sales and international sales it's making the s19's less lucrative at the current pricing.

Bitmain has this weird habit of passing the "keys" to the resellers at certain periods where the near future is hard to forecast, buying a good percentage of my gears off-Bitmain I always keep a close eye on the Chinese resellers market, Bitmain screws them really hards at times, I will not be surprised seeing Bitmain drop prices on the S19/S19 pro for international orders after selling enough to the local market, it happened before and it can very well happen again.

[philipma1957]

I am hoping they  hold back and don't release any new gear for USA  until  April 15.

We  are planning to shut our 28 s9's down  soon.

We would like to push them until the ½ ing.

a 14 th machine is earning 50 a month  with free power.  they drop to 25 a month once ½ ing comes
these new 110 units earn  400 a month with free power.  they drop to 200 a month once ½  ing comes.

S9 out of pocket cost = 0   and it earns 50 a month right now.

s19 pro out of pocket cost = 3800 if trump tax is applied .  and it earns 0 until May 30

Simply can't justify buying one  even from after market with gray trump tax deal lets say 3200 cost that way.

I still don't get it until may 30  my power deal is 50-50  so we net 100 a month against a 3200 cost.  I need 32 months to break even.

This gear is so over priced it is a joke.  Even with free power  you break even in 16 months.

[freddy2020]

That is calculated right now .  If Bitcoin was high they would charge a lot more. If I remember the release of S17 was like in the 3500 and up.

Either way it is the best hardware out there, and Bitcoin will go very high this year, make no mistake about it. Sitting on a brand spanking new S19 is going to be epic when the earnings are upto 1 dollar a TH or more.

[philipma1957]

I ordered one in april of 2019  for under 2500.  the preorder of the s17 was around 3100.  I got the second order for 2500.

so if this is 2900 the second batch should drop.