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Author Topic: BTC transfer issue in Electrum - Help me understand what happened?  (Read 266 times)
Hanna
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February 27, 2020, 08:09:31 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), LoyceV (4), bones261 (4), ETFbitcoin (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #1

I am not very experienced and now, something has happened that I don't understand. I hope somebody can help me understand what happened:

Somebody was going to pay me, on an Receive address generated by Electrum. (This was a purchase Local Bitcoin Exchange, and the receipt of his payment was delayed at his end. I cancelled the trade, when I hadn't received the BTC during the allocated time on Local Bitcoin Exchange. This was a mistake by me, of course

The guy said he'd send me the BTC anyway, assuming the payment arrived.
So I pasted the Receiving address from Electrum in the chat, on Local Bitcoin Exchange.
I closed down the computer that Electrum is running on and went to bed.
This morning, the guy (who is in South America while I am in Europe), had pinged me.
He said he sent to outstanding BTC to the address I gave.
However, the money has not arrived.

I realise that he could be lying, but he is a top rated trader of high volumes on Local Bitcoin Exchange. Let's assume he was honest for the time being.

  • When I open Electrum this morning, the Receiving address is something different than it was before! Why?  
  • Is the Receiving address I gave him yesterday no longer valid now?  
  • Electrum wasn't open when he presumably sent the payment. Is that a problem for receiving it?


What has happened here, from the BTC / Blockchain / Electrum perspective?  [/b]

(I realise this is my mistake for cancelling the trade, instead of Disputing - it was late and I was very tired, not thinking clearly and got stressed. I understand that the guy might have lied or otherwise tricked me, in using such a slow method of tranfer, so please advise me only on the Technical aspect of this - worst case: I paid EUR 550 to learn this lesson.)

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February 27, 2020, 08:16:32 AM
 #2

Check the address on the block explorer to see if the coins are there.
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February 27, 2020, 08:24:13 AM
 #3

I am not very experienced and now, something has happened that I don't understand. I hope somebody can help me understand what happened:

Somebody was going to pay me, on an Receive address generated by Electrum. (This was a purchase Local Bitcoin Exchange, and the receipt of his payment was delayed at his end. I cancelled the trade, when I hadn't received the BTC during the allocated time on Local Bitcoin Exchange. This was a mistake by me, of course

The guy said he'd send me the BTC anyway, assuming the payment arrived.
So I pasted the Receiving address from Electrum in the chat, on Local Bitcoin Exchange.
I closed down the computer that Electrum is running on and went to bed.
This morning, the guy (who is in South America while I am in Europe), had pinged me.
He said he sent to outstanding BTC to the address I gave.
However, the money has not arrived.

I realise that he could be lying, but he is a top rated trader of high volumes on Local Bitcoin Exchange. Let's assume he was honest for the time being.

  • When I open Electrum this morning, the Receiving address is something different than it was before! Why?  
  • Is the Receiving address I gave him yesterday no longer valid now?  
  • Electrum wasn't open when he presumably sent the payment. Is that a problem for receiving it?


What has happened here, from the BTC / Blockchain / Electrum perspective?  [/b]

(I realise this is my mistake for cancelling the trade, instead of Disputing - it was late and I was very tired, not thinking clearly and got stressed. I understand that the guy might have lied or otherwise tricked me, in using such a slow method of tranfer, so please advise me only on the Technical aspect of this - worst case: I paid EUR 550 to learn this lesson.)



You simply ask him for the TX id generated by Electrum or send you a screengrab of his wallet with the outgoing transaction.

Three reasons could happend;

1) he sent to wrong address
2) he didnt send it, scammed you
3) he used a low value of satoshi/kb and is in mempool, but it still should show in electrum wallet as unconfirmed

BTC Python developer of various tools. Contact me for programming help (python/cuda)
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February 27, 2020, 08:46:54 AM
 #4

  • When I open Electrum this morning, the Receiving address is something different than it was before! Why? 
  • Is the Receiving address I gave him yesterday no longer valid now? 
  • Electrum wasn't open when he presumably sent the payment. Is that a problem for receiving it?

in bitcoin you can reuse an address as many times as you want but it is not recommended. instead you should only use each address once (receive one payment in it, and receive others in another address). to do that wallets such as Electrum change the receiving address as soon as the previous one received payment. that is why the address you see in your Receive tab is different now.
however your wallet still has that address and its key and it can be reused and if you had received any coins in that address they are spendable.
you can click on View from the menu and select Show addresses to see a new tab that contains all your addresses.
also your payment (if you have actually received it) should show up in your History tab with the date and amount and if you double click it you can see more details including the Transaction ID which you should have received from the sender in your chat.

Hanna
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February 27, 2020, 08:47:22 AM
 #5

Check the address on the block explorer to see if the coins are there.
Thank you! I checked Block Explorer but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I can't immediately see the BTC being there.
Is it safe if I post the details here? If I mention the sum and the Receiving address, would somebody be able to help me check and interpret?

in bitcoin you can reuse an address as many times as you want but it is not recommended. instead you should only use each address once (receive one payment in it, and receive others in another address). to do that wallets such as Electrum change the receiving address as soon as the previous one received payment. that is why the address you see in your Receive tab is different now.
however your wallet still has that address and its key and it can be reused and if you had received any coins in that address they are spendable.
you can click on View from the menu and select Show addresses to see a new tab that contains all your addresses.
also your payment (if you have actually received it) should show up in your History tab with the date and amount and if you double click it you can see more details including the Transaction ID which you should have received from the sender in your chat.
Thanks for an excellent explanation! Got it! Smiley

You simply ask him for the TX id generated by Electrum or send you a screengrab of his wallet with the outgoing transaction.

Three reasons could happend;

1) he sent to wrong address
2) he didnt send it, scammed you
3) he used a low value of satoshi/kb and is in mempool, but it still should show in electrum wallet as unconfirmed
Thank you! So I understand the responses so far, to say that:
1. It doesn't matter whether Electrum was open or not - the payment should reach me when I open Electrum the next time.
2. The old address can still be used.

The only thing that remains then is (a) Check the Blockchain, which I asked for help with, if it is safe and (2) Ask him to verify that he sent the BTC by a screengrab of his Outgoing transaction.  
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February 27, 2020, 09:15:17 AM
 #6

Is it safe if I post the details here? If I mention the sum and the Receiving address, would somebody be able to help me check and interpret?  

Yeah, it's fine. It's a public data anyway. Either give the tx id or give the address. You can do it yourself via Blockchair or other block explorers.

If he did send the money, there's no need for a screenshot or anything. The tx id would be more than enough to check the transaction yourself. Unless the TX was dropped from the mempool and not confirmed.

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February 27, 2020, 09:19:02 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), ETFbitcoin (1), Hanna (1)
 #7

The only thing that remains then is (a) Check the Blockchain, which I asked for help with, if it is safe and (2) Ask him to verify that he sent the BTC by a screengrab of his Outgoing transaction.   

a "picture" is not going to prove anything. you have to ask him to send the "transaction ID" of the transaction he claims he has sent to you. it is going to be in hexadecimal format with 64 characters. you can then check if you can see that ID in your wallet (history tab) or not. you can also search it in a block explorer. and it would look something like this (a random example i chose from the recent blocks):
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/06053bd50ee8f8269dc3c24aca0e9b9f2267a038fa33a37802e8a4a4a038bc4f
1) this status tells you if the tx is confirmed (is included in a block and final or is in the mempool and not-final) https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q/146/87716
2) a list of receiving addresses where you must find your own address to be one of them
3) the corresponding amount of bitcoin that went to each address which must be the same amount that you expected

Soldierswitlittlefaith
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February 27, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
 #8

@Hanna,  sorry about that. a short self assessment question(s)

based of series of suggestion's & advice by top trader's and mod. of this forum. pls, take time to follow some of these step's if, you are unable to retify the problem.

i will advice you to calm down & review the following info's from your end. sometime's we do stupid thing's when we are anxious. Something similar happen to me about 5-7 months when i started selling stuff on bitify. i made some sell, got a notification msg from bitify support team that i should take to the necessary step's to update the payment info's on my file.

I jumped up, full with excitement about the whole stuff, copied an old address which i cannot actually say if, it's associated my old blockchain.info or localbitcoins.com account. but, i guess i have use same wallet in the past year's  for receiving of btc.

So, i copied the address, updated my payment info's on bitify after about 48 hour's which was suppose to be the expected time for my btc to get into the indicated wallet. i became anxious , i log-in to a different wallet associated with my blockchain.info, copied a different address, log-in to my bitify account & updated my payment info's again for the second time.

I follow same step and updated my info's for the 3rd time since, i did not receive any payment so, i taught probably bitify were scamming me or somethig is wrong with the 1st,2nd wallet address perhap's this could be the reason.

Finally, i contacted bitify support team & i was told that they already sent the bitcoin into the 1st wallet. Now, the second phase of the battle began because i can't seem to log-in to that account. It's one of my old account but, for some reason i lost access to most of my credential's when my asus notebook developed some fault.

Here is a link where i had requested for support from this community. Luckily, i found someone from this community who assured me that the money is still there and that is associated with an old account. He also gave me all necesary info's to assure me that there is no scam from bitify,blockchain or localbitcoins.com

*****Reference Link associated with my issue  : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5155736.msg51565052#msg51565052



********Some personal assessment question for you******+**

Few question(s) that might be of help toward's retifying this issue :

- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one?

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)?


I guarantee some of this question(s) could help you indentify the source of the problem. Is easier to believe that the buyer might have scammed you while, the problem might be from a slight mistake from your end. I'm not trying to take side with the buyer because i know what it means to loose hard earned btc. Mine is still lying idle in that wallet because of my silly mistake.


Note : in my own case, the coin is still lying idle in that account since, i've lost access to the wallet in question

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith
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February 27, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #9

Hanna, for start check your balance in Electrum, 550 EUR is not small amount and if your wallet is sync then you should see that your balance is changed and you should see that transaction in Electrum history tab.

These are things that can be proven very easily, do not pay anything, regardless of the merchant's alleged reputation. After you post the transaction link and determine that your receiving address is indeed part of your wallet (click address tab in Electrum - do you see that address?) we can conclude what really happened.

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February 27, 2020, 10:37:34 AM
 #10

There are two things you need to do here.

Firstly, share the address that you sent to the other party. We can confirm whether or not he is telling the truth and whether or not he has sent coins to that address.

Secondly, confirm that the address you sent him is part of your wallet and you weren't victim to clipboard malware. In Electrum, either check the "Addresses" tab to see if the address is there, or use the console to type ismine(youraddresshere).

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February 27, 2020, 10:58:33 AM
 #11

Firstly, share the address that you sent to the other party. We can confirm whether or not he is telling the truth and whether or not he has sent coins to that address.
More specifically: copy it from your chat:
So I pasted the Receiving address from Electrum in the chat, on Local Bitcoin Exchange.

Secondly, confirm that the address you sent him is part of your wallet and you weren't victim to clipboard malware.
The clipboard hijacking could also have happened on the seller's side.

This was a purchase Local Bitcoin Exchange
Just to be clear: do you mean LocalBitcoins.com?

If you're in Europe, why are you buying Bitcoin in South America? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

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February 27, 2020, 11:12:35 AM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #12

Thanks everyone and sorry I disappeared for a while. I should be working really!

Here is the recipient address I gave the sender.
This was in the Recieve Tab of my Electrum yesterday night. He wrote that it's the address he sent to, including the address, for confirmation.

1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5


Sum in Bitcoin: 0.07592263

I double-checked that it's what I sent to the seller in the chat on Local Bitcoin Exchange. It is also what he said that he sent the payment to, via chat on Local Bitcoin Exchange. This guy gives every sign of being honest and decent and a chatted a bit with him while waiting for the payment. I just don't get scammer vibes from him at all, even though I realise anyone could be tricked. His high score on Local Bitcoin Exchange also indicates he's honest.

It's in fact worth more than I thought in EUR, it's EUR 611. I paid him in another currency.

Now I will read all the responses since my last comment, very carefully to understand it, then follow up.

In the meantime, I would be super grateful for help by an experienced person, to check the blockchain.

I understand what you are saying about the Transaction ID and I will ask him for it, if needed. It's still really early for him, due to time zones and it would be good to know the verdict of Blockchain first!

This is the first time I've had problems with a transfer, so from that perspective it's suspicous.
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February 27, 2020, 11:20:21 AM
Merited by LoyceV (2), ETFbitcoin (1), Hanna (1)
 #13

The address 1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5 contains 0.37700799 BTC.

This was received in two transactions.

The first was at 19.37 (GMT) yesterday for 0.23615234 BTC.

The second was as 20.39 (GMT) yesterday for 0.14085565 BTC.

If he said he sent 0.07592263 BTC to that address he is either lying or has made a mistake. You should therefore ask him for the transaction ID of the transaction he says he made.

You should also follow my advice above to double check that the address 1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5 is definitely part of your wallet.

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February 27, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
 #14


********Some personal assessment question for you******+**

Few question(s) that might be of help toward's retifying this issue :




- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?  Answer: No. Just one Local Bitcoing Exchange account - I'm not sure what it's address is. The missing payment was sent to an Electrum address.
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one? Answer: The Electrum wallet in question was set up in 2014 and has been only sporadically used. The Recieving address is constantly refreshed in Electrum though.

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?Answer:  Yes, I double checked. I could not have copied another address and I compared before I posted. (See screenshot).

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)? Answer: Only on Desktop - I don't have a mobile Wallet.

Thank you for sharing your story, SoldiersWithLittleFaith! Smiley
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February 27, 2020, 11:29:41 AM
 #15

The address 1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5 contains 0.37700779 BTC.

This was received in two transactions.

The first was at 19.37 (GMT) yesterday for 0.23615234 BTC.

The second was as 20.39 (GMT) yesterday for 0.14085565 BTC.

If he said he sent 0.07592263 BTC to that address he is either lying or has made a mistake.
Thanks for checking! I recognise those figures you list, because I made two transfers earlier. The time also checks out.
I see the Address in the Addresses section of Electrum.

However, neither of these is the transaction I made with him.
Any transaction he made, would have been later in GMT - around Midnight or 01:00 GMT, by my reckoning.

Okay - that clarifies the situation.
The transaction he's talking about, was not made, and I can confront him about it.  
Odds that he made a mistake, seem pretty slim to me.
I doubt Local Bitcoin Exchange will help me, since the transaction was cancelled and outside their site - but it's worth a try.

I messed up and it seems he took advantage of it. The problem was, it was late at night and the World Remit transfer didn't take <1 hour as advertised, but something like 3.5 hour and this made me lose my calm and act stupidly. I guess 611 EUR goes a long way in Colombia/Venezuela... Maybe from his perspective, it's worth skimming a European who doesn't have her wits about her.

 
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February 27, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
 #16

I guess 611 EUR goes a long way in Colombia/Venezuela... Maybe from his perspective, it's worth skimming a European who doesn't have her wits about her.

How 550 EUR from the first post turned into 611 EUR? And can you clarify if this money has already been sent to the alleged seller and what was used as a means of payment? I don't understand why you agreed to the transaction outside of exchange, and why you pay for something in advance (if I understood correctly that the money is already lost)?

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February 27, 2020, 11:53:05 AM
Merited by Hanna (1)
 #17

In the meantime, I would be super grateful for help by an experienced person, to check the blockchain.
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5

Quote
I just don't get scammer vibes from him at all, even though I realise anyone could be tricked.
Some scammers are obvious, but others are experienced con artists.

Quote
His high score on Local Bitcoin Exchange also indicates he's honest.
Those accounts also get sold, or hacked.

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February 27, 2020, 11:55:09 AM
Last edit: February 27, 2020, 12:48:46 PM by Hanna
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #18

I guess 611 EUR goes a long way in Colombia/Venezuela... Maybe from his perspective, it's worth skimming a European who doesn't have her wits about her.

How 550 EUR from the first post turned into 611 EUR? And can you clarify if this money has already been sent to the alleged seller and what was used as a means of payment? I don't understand why you agreed to the transaction outside of exchange, and why you pay for something in advance (if I understood correctly that the money is already lost)?
The difference of the EUR figure mentioned is just because I sent the money in SEK (Swedish) not in EUR. When writing here, I wanted to mention the price in a currency that people are likely to be familiar with. SEK is not a big currency, so  I just did a very sketchy calculation in my head,to give a rough estimate. Then somebody specifically commented on the sum, so I decided to double check and it turns out I was off and the value in EUR was a little bit higher than I thought.  Exact price for anyone who is really interested, was "Buying 0.07592263 bitcoins for 6,885.00 SEK". This is approx. 611 EUR. Sorry about any confusion.

The payment method he asked for was World Remit, which was new to me. Register and then use your Visa/Mastercard to send money. The seller said the transaction with World Remit would be complete in 1 hour. However, as it turned out, it took close to 4 hours. His window for the transaction, was something like 1.5 hour. Additionally, it was late at night, I was not at my sharpest and aware I needed to go to bed. When the window was nearly up, I was warned by Local Bitcoin Exchange, made a stupid gut reaction, i.e. closing the trade even though the transfer was already made.

As for me handling this the wrong way: I knooooooow!!!  I started out by explaining that I realise that I did everything wrong and that this may be the price I have to pay for learning that lesson. I am angry with myself and feel very stupid.

In the meantime, I would be super grateful for help by an experienced person, to check the blockchain.
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5

Quote
I just don't get scammer vibes from him at all, even though I realise anyone could be tricked.
Some scammers are obvious, but others are experienced con artists.

Quote
His high score on Local Bitcoin Exchange also indicates he's honest.
Those accounts also get sold, or hacked.

Yes. I really thought I was dealing with a nice Christian guy who was trading BTC to make a living in Venezuela. I even chatted with him a bit while waiting for the transaction. I am normally very good at telling bad people from good, but of course, I am not God, so I don't know what's in people's heart!

Sometimes CIRCUMSTANCES makes an otherwise honest person behave dishonestly. Here, I had already transferred the money to him and cancelled the trade by mistake. Maybe, sitting there in Venezuela, with all the challenges the people there are facing,  it seemed to him like "money from the sky", simply too good to reject.  He could accept the money and not send any BTC, and probably get away with it. He might not even be sanctioned by Local Bitcoin Exchange. It's between him and his conscience.

I have now asked him to provide the Transaction ID, Re-send the BTC or refund my money
To be continued...
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February 27, 2020, 01:28:20 PM
 #19


********Some personal assessment question for you******+**

Few question(s) that might be of help toward's retifying this issue :




- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?  Answer: No. Just one Local Bitcoing Exchange account - I'm not sure what it's address is. The missing payment was sent to an Electrum address.
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one? Answer: The Electrum wallet in question was set up in 2014 and has been only sporadically used. The Recieving address is constantly refreshed in Electrum though.

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?Answer:  Yes, I double checked. I could not have copied another address and I compared before I posted. (See screenshot).

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)? Answer: Only on Desktop - I don't have a mobile Wallet.

Thank you for sharing your story, SoldiersWithLittleFaith! Smiley


@Hanna,


Ok, i see there are lot of senior member's who are will to help you out here.

Pls, i advice you follow what   o_e_l_e_o had suggested earlier because there is something fishy here & we need to figure out this before is too late.  Everything, seem to be ok from your end. 

Note : i hope is nOT what i'm thinking here. Pls, it is possible for you invite him/her to join the conversation on this forum? Atleast, i know some of the senior member's would have loved to ask the buyer one or more question(s)! And,base on your perception of the buyer, he/she should be willing to go to any length in order to resolve this issue. I know the deal is on LBC but, this forum also offer extra support as long as it's related to crypto-currency.

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith
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February 27, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Merited by Hanna (1)
 #20

Just a quick observation,

Guyz never send or SHARE sensitive info's like bank,cc info's or wallet address via Chat - telegram,whatsapp ...this is very risky.

*In this case, i believe both parties chatted through LBC .


Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith
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