SC to decide on RBI's shadowban soon. What then?

[legendster]

So we all have been hoping for a resolution in favor of cryptos coming from RBI since hey, cryptos are kind of commodities as well as a security and a currency. While RBI can protect its ass by barring independent third-party payments processor in the form of various cryptos, but it does not really have jurisdiction over regulating cryptos since its, like I said, also a kind of commodity.

So what could the 'system' do if we actually win the case? come after us through the Ministry of Finance? If that happens then there could be a strict ban on the use of cryptos to trade derivatives as that is a strict no-no for us Indians.

But that is if the commodity nature of cryptos gets under attack. What happens if we lose the case? Its pretty obvious that the BJP has already bought the judiciary system of our country, what could we do if we are on the back foot again?

I throw this question to all the lawheads we have here among us?

[1714041442]

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[avikz]

So there are two possibilities -
1. RBI wins: we can expect a crackdown by the government, the tax authority and the banks on the crypto users. We will start seeing news popping up about the frozen bank accounts across the country. Those who have used centralized crypto exchanges in the past, they will have severe consequences if the court provides retrospective effect. A new segment of people will come under the purview of the tax authorities.

2. RBI looses: it's highly unlikely to happen! I am following this case since beginning and I read each and every arguments that is happening on each hearing from crypto Kanoon Twitter handle. Till date, I didn't find anything moving into positive direction. So I don't really have high hopes. It's a vicious cycle of beaurocracy.

If RBI looses, don't be happy! Court will then ask the Finance Ministry to frame guidelines on crypto usage. Then the finance ministry will come back with the report of Subhash Chandra Garg Committee which proposed punitive actions against crypto users and open up a list of risks that crypto will posses over the economy of India. The court will then start seeing a new direction of arguments where Finance Ministry will take up the seat of opposition.

I will be very happy if this case takes 15 years or more to get resolved and remain a low priority case! Then we are good!

That's my personal analysis of the situation and this comes from experience of working with beaurocrats for a good amount of time.

[akram143]

I don't believe on real justice in our country because they will just favour government not the citizen.

Even though if cryptos made completely illegal to use in our country banking sector doesn't have great future like employment opportunities. Already Paytm and google pay take over 70% of transactions in more we may see banks need to have any employees in the cash counter only manager is enough for a branch.

[chennappa121]

I don't believe on real justice in our country because they will just favour government not the citizen.

Even though if cryptos made completely illegal to use in our country banking sector doesn't have great future like employment opportunities. Already Paytm and google pay take over 70% of transactions in more we may see banks need to have any employees in the cash counter only manager is enough for a branch.

Yes you are right bro in india we can get the justice for  favour of  governments in this case because we know that the Indian government giving the statement for against crypto from the beginning so we can not expect any good news from them regarding Crypto.

[cabron]

Whichever way the verdict may go, its still good to see a country like yours are discussing cryptocurrency. Not all countries are prepared for this but yours has time to actually assemble a court for all these.

The government will always work in favor of the government, if RBI wins then tax could be impose to those who are profiting from crypto, don't you think its fair for the government to receive whats rightfully theirs?

[JSRAW]

Enjoy!!

https://twitter.com/cryptokanoon/status/1235078828180951041

Supreme Court allows trading in cryptocurrency, quashes RBI ban

"The Supreme Court on Wednesday allowed trading in cryptocurrency, thus overruling an earlier ban imposed by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) on trading in virtual currencies such as Bitcoin."

[amishmanish]

2. RBI looses lost: it's highly unlikely to happen! I am following this case since beginning and I read each and every arguments that is happening on each hearing from crypto Kanoon Twitter handle. Till date, I didn't find anything moving into positive direction. So I don't really have high hopes. It's a vicious cycle of beaurocracy.


I will be very happy if this case takes 15 years or more to get resolved and remain a low priority case! Then we are good!

That's my personal analysis of the situation and this comes from experience of working with beaurocrats for a good amount of time.

Now that the ban has been termed "unconstitutional", the fear and uncertainty will be reduced. Now, the case was fought by IAMAI besides others. The only silver lining you need is that "Jio Digital Life" is a member. The interest has been shown by BJP's coeterie of crony capitalists. So the prospective aren't all that gloomy.
Lets see where this leads.

[legendster]

Maybe we should promote cryptocurrency as a biproduct of a cow somehow. Like maybe it was 'hashed' out of cow dung or urine. Maybe then we would be on the good side of our supreme leader's party and might make it through.

I'm so sick and tired of the ineffective governance in our country that is pushing us to the stone ages with each passing month.

-update-

And I just saw the seemingly good news.

RBI's ban is curbed by SC

Now the only way the orange brigade can hurt us is by going after cryptos through the FMC and by tagging it as a commodity.
So anyone trading crypto derivatives would be under the scanner.

But let's just see how this unfolds further. Hoping for some positivity.

[CoinFellow]

Maybe we should promote cryptocurrency as a biproduct of a cow somehow. Like maybe it was 'hashed' out of cow dung or urine. Maybe then we would be on the good side of our supreme leader's party and might make it through.

I'm so sick and tired of the ineffective governance in our country that is pushing us to the stone ages with each passing month.

-update-

And I just saw the seemingly good news.

s/m.timesofindia.com/business/india-business/supreme-court-allows-cryptocurrency-trading-cancels-rbis-2018-circular/amp_articleshow/74470172.cms]RBI's ban is curbed by SC

Now the only way the orange brigade can hurt us is by going after cryptos through the FMC and by tagging it as a commodity.
So anyone trading crypto derivatives would be under the scanner.

But let's just see how this unfolds further. Hoping for some positivity.

Dear Legendster, your hate for everything saffron is also legendary...

[amishmanish]

Maybe we should promote cryptocurrency as a biproduct of a cow somehow. Like maybe it was 'hashed' out of cow dung or urine. Maybe then we would be on the good side of our supreme leader's party and might make it through.

I'm so sick and tired of the ineffective governance in our country that is pushing us to the stone ages with each passing month.

You are right legendster. They have made a blunder out of a huge mandate and have actually put the country on a regressive path that none of us could have imagined. Yet, I feel this casual disparagement related to everything cow and saffron does not help anybody. Its easy to make fun of but to some people, a cow really is holy and its an emotive issue for them..

The image of the "English-speaking, left-elite poking fun at the conservative religious majoritarian Hindu" is one of the primary reasons that this reactionary, regressive religious nationalism is finding so many takers amongst the youth today. BJP is only stoking the fire at the right moments. All the fuel is being provided by you and me with our smart-ass references to cow dung on one hand and halala qazi on the other..LOL..

The path forward, as always is reconciliation and respecting each others sentiments and avoiding playing on these fault lines. That is why i avoid strong statements on such things and make it a point to request everyone to do the same whenever i get the chance, online or offline..

[legendster]

Dear Legendster, your hate for everything saffron is also legendary...

But nothing is more legendary than my hate for stupidity, which almost all religions spread with equal impunity.

You are right legendster. They have made a blunder out of a huge mandate and have actually put the country on a regressive path that none of us could have imagined. Yet, I feel this casual disparagement related to everything cow and saffron does not help anybody. Its easy to make fun of but to some people, a cow really is holy and its an emotive issue for them..

You know me very little if you think I actually give a rat's ass about anyone's religious sentiments. You may like the color of poop but expecting someone else to like that is ridiculous. Keep your favorite color and imaginary friend's cult to yourself. (you is not equal to You)

The image of the "English-speaking, left-elite poking fun at the conservative religious majoritarian Hindu" is one of the primary reasons that this reactionary, regressive religious nationalism is finding so many takers amongst the youth today. BJP is only stoking the fire at the right moments. All the fuel is being provided by you and me with our smart-ass references to cow dung on one hand and halala qazi on the other..LOL..

Just because I can type and speak English pretty well, does not mean I am a left leaning elite. I am a very grounded bong who is able to make any right winged bhakt bleed from his ears just with my desi language(s).

The path forward, as always is reconciliation and respecting each others sentiments and avoiding playing on these fault lines. That is why i avoid strong statements on such things and make it a point to request everyone to do the same whenever i get the chance, online or offline..

Request denied.

[amishmanish]

The path forward, as always is reconciliation and respecting each others sentiments and avoiding playing on these fault lines. That is why i avoid strong statements on such things and make it a point to request everyone to do the same whenever i get the chance, online or offline..

Request denied.

LOL..Such a shame..I believe i present a better case in person because these requests don't get denied so bluntly. Or maybe, its just harder to say upfront that you'll continue to be a fuming jackass despite knowing that you can choose to be better. you not being YOU, of course.(stealing this, its too good)

[avikz]

Dear Legendster, your hate for everything saffron is also legendary...

Same goes for me as well! Those who have put the country to the path of communal hatred, I too hate them from the core of my heart!

Now that the ban has been termed "unconstitutional", the fear and uncertainty will be reduced. Now, the case was fought by IAMAI besides others. The only silver lining you need is that "Jio Digital Life" is a member. The interest has been shown by BJP's coeterie of crony capitalists. So the prospective aren't all that gloomy.
Lets see where this leads.

I am very happy that my prediction gone wrong here and I am actually delighted to see SC overruling the ban and calling in "unconstitutional". Let's see what Finance Ministry comes up with!

[legendster]

Request denied.

LOL..Such a shame..I believe i present a better case in person because these requests don't get denied so bluntly. Or maybe, its just harder to say upfront that you'll continue to be a fuming jackass despite knowing that you can choose to be better. you not being YOU, of course.(stealing this, its too good)

Some fuming jackasses have a point. They're tired of being quiet for the sake of betterment even in the face of a blatant reality where things stay the same. The bigots evolve into racists and then into genocidal xenophobic mobs. In times like those (these), if the fuming jackasses don't speak up, the rest of you silent mules remain silent and in the process lose the function of your backbones. (you being not you)


Fool me once, shame on you (Gujrat)
Fool me twice, shame on me (Delhi)

Shall I go on?

Let's do that.

Demonetisation, something that bhakts have lauded from day one even if they had to cut off a limb from their own body in the name of modi-bhakti. Has been an utter failure. Let's look into the real reason why that is the case and how that lead to the current Yes Bank situation, the Sensex slide the drop in GDP and the faltering Rupee prices.
Because when the brilliant Mr. Modi with his modus operandi of bringing back black money, decided on going ahead with this utter nonsense. The first people to be made aware of the move were the Reliance group. The very people that funded our PM into power.
Now you may ignore that completely and say what's wrong with that? Well, sir if you ask that, then your moral compass is broken and you are uninformed about what is legal and illegal according to the constitution in India. Not only that, by implementing this BS move you set your banks up for utter failure. One of the biggest examples of that has been the failure of Punjab National Bank (twice), the failure of PMC bank, and the current Yes Bank crisis.
How? you may ask.
Simple. You forgot how banks actually made money and you set up zero infrastructure for them when you forced the nation to deposit all their money into the banking system. You forgot that banks do not make money by accepting deposits, they make money by lending out.
When you create an atmosphere of financial insecurity you take away the spirit of entrepreneurship and businesses in India. That animal spirit becomes the squeals of fleeing rats of a sinking ship. Today the banks have reduced the interest rates of all kinds of deposits. Not enough people are borrowing and this results in banks after banks being in utter turmoil. Flourishing housing finance stars like DHFL had to file for insolvency and the entire real estate sector in India crashed and burned on the whims of a tea seller. And to rub salt on the wound, each of these failed businesses have had to face the ED and CBI, which is nothing more than a piss poor attempt of eye washing the dumb bhakts so that they can stay confused, and loyal to our supreme leader.

Oh India! how mighty had thou becometh, now you lay in scattered like a raw earthen pot.

We are now living in an environment where people are not only afraid to take loans, but are afraid to open new businesses. And you ask us jackasses to remain passive? For how long? Till the new berlin wall separates us from Kashmir and Bangladesh? And then what? Smaller cousins of the Berlin walls to be sprouted between each and every community? And I haven't even begun to talk about that communal aspect yet, just the financial. And all for the promised land of a Hindu right-wing country where freedom has an asterisk looming over its head?

No sir, your request shall remain denied in as ineloquent manner as I mentioned before.

PS: Once again, 'you' is not "you". And let me know when you have digested this much. I shall go on about how the supreme leader is dividing India among communal lines with this CAA / NRC bullshit.

[amishmanish]

Some fuming jackasses have a point. They're tired of being quiet for the sake of betterment even in the face of a blatant reality where things stay the same. The bigots evolve into racists and then into genocidal xenophobic mobs. In times like those (these), if the fuming jackasses don't speak up, the rest of you silent mules remain silent and in the process lose the function of your backbones. (you being not you)
[/size]

Fool me once, shame on you (Gujrat)
Fool me twice, shame on me (Delhi)

Shall I go on?

I myself agree with all of this. (particularly, fool me twice). Yet, if you think you can have a sustainable and stable situation in society by neglecting/ disparaging/ insulting the other side on emotive issues then you are just playing their game. The ring master gleefully watch because it gives credence to their theories of "Insult to majority's pride" by "Leftist intellectuals". You may not be getting this point, or maybe have outgrown it (as you said above), a balance of conservative values and liberal exploration needs to go hand in hand.

Putting words into my mouth with the argument on "broken moral compass" is typical of the self-righteous grandstanding on display by left-liberals everywhere. (which you may or may not identify as). You only play by the rules of the bigots if you use the same attitude of publicly disparaging things like Saffron/ Cow-worship etc etc. It doesn't serve the purpose you think it serves.(Shaming these people into thinking that the values they hold are ridiculous).

We all have a spectrum of thoughts and can agree/ disagree on a lot of things despite our political/ economic leanings. Yet, use of such language on social media only strengthens the agenda of those who sow divisiveness.

You really didn't need to do all this economic analysis. (A lot of which is your opinion and not facts) as I agreed at the outset that they have made a blunder out of an important mandate. Linking demonetisation with everything from NPA's to Real-estate failure to Rupee devaluation is pretty much conjecture. There is a history of bad corporate governance at banks where NPA's have widened. Many will say that real estate collapsed after demonetization because you can no longer transact using unaccounted cash. So that money is not moving anymore. Then there is the issue of willful evasion by several MSME's which feeds into the cycle of corruption in Babudom at every level. What you see as throttling of "animal spirit" by a "petty tea seller", many see as the bitter cleansing of an entrenched system of elite babus, politicians and businesses feeding each other.

These "Reforms" were not ill-conceived per se but it is now clear that they have only replaced a certain set of elites from another one of their own liking. This is the moment of truth for opposition to come clean on corruption and actually have a plan and conviction for equitable welfare. That is why someone like Kejriwal becomes all the more important. I have lost all hope from the leftists/ dynasty-led centrists who only feed this monster of partisanship with their attempts at satiric/ insulting take-downs of conservatives and "majority vs minority" narrative.

[legendster]

I myself agree with all of this. (particularly, fool me twice). Yet, if you think you can have a sustainable and stable situation in society by neglecting/ disparaging/ insulting the other side on emotive issues then you are just playing their game. The ring master gleefully watch because it gives credence to their theories of "Insult to majority's pride" by "Leftist intellectuals". You may not be getting this point, or maybe have outgrown it (as you said above), a balance of conservative values and liberal exploration needs to go hand in hand.

Yes, that's what should happen. But time and time again reality stares back at us. There is no leftist pride, there is however a right-ist pride. "We shot Gandhi". "Jute maro taklu ko". "Grab em by the pussy" - these are all the things that are said by right leaning leaders. Moderation is the key to a peaceful society, but the times right now are so far beyond "moderate" situations that the nation needs a shock to get back into shape. These seemingly normal people turned mongrels need to own up to all the shit they have created and it would not happen by ignoring them or by being passive. That's the worst thing you can do.

Putting words into my mouth with the argument on "broken moral compass" is typical of the self-righteous grandstanding on display by left-liberals everywhere. (which you may or may not identify as). You only play by the rules of the bigots if you use the same attitude of publicly disparaging things like Saffron/ Cow-worship etc etc. It doesn't serve the purpose you think it serves.(Shaming these people into thinking that the values they hold are ridiculous).

It is ridiculous. Have you ever met a random person from a bhakt rally? I have. My family has been in the legal realm for decades, the ideology, the mentality, the sheer stupidity of these people will astonish you and make you question if they are of even a sane mind.

One random guy when preparing his case through us said this about Indira Gandhi, and Mamata Banerjee.

-They are women. They can never think like us (men). The sincerity with which a man thinks is incomparable to how a woman thinks. Every time there has been a woman leader in power, our country has become shit.

Imagine the same lines in Hindi with a Bihari accent.

Such ridiculous people will not be reeducated overnight. It would take generations. And such people should live in fear of repercussions of fostering such a demented world view. And the only way such people would learn the right thing is if the 'right thing' was a dead fish and they were smacked with the said dead fish.

We all have a spectrum of thoughts and can agree/ disagree on a lot of things despite our political/ economic leanings. Yet, use of such language on social media only strengthens the agenda of those who sow divisiveness.

I am not a Gandhian. And I have never been around anywhere with any form of divisive agenda, but the more we let things just slide the worse it would get. I am a stern believer in that.

You really didn't need to do all this economic analysis. (A lot of which is your opinion and not facts)...

Oh, I'm not at all diffident about facts buddy. I would urge you to point out which part of my analysis was "opinion"?
If you think these were my opinion and not based on actual studies then you should read papers published by Dr Amartya Lahiri, one of the most critical one being : https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.34.1.55

That shows you the macroeconomics at play. Look at how it affected the poor and the low-income households in this report;
https://www.cafral.org.in/sfControl/content/Speech/8292017101719AMDemon_20170107.pdf

Seriously, people died for that shit. Anyone saying that these are my opinion, please. Slap yourself.

_{For those that don't know, Dr. Lahiri is a Royal Bank Faculty Research Professor, Vancouver School of Economics, University of British Columbia, Canada and has worked with RBI in the past.}

And FFS these were not "reforms" it was never intended to be. Everything Modi has done has benefited the Reliances, the Dish TVs, the IPLs and whatnot at the expense of the PSUs and the common man. It would literally take just a few minutes of your valuable time to research the same. But alas, you prefer to be passive and not question the system.

At best the stated intention of hitting multiple targets of curbing black money, improving digitization, reducing terror funding is an eyewash at the least or completely ill planed at worst. A single policy cannot have multiple targets and be successful at the same time.

The more you let the worms grow, the more rotten things will get.

And when it comes to the question of what next. India (RBI) declared its stance against crypto back in 2014 when it issued the 'cautionary' warning against cryptos and now they lost the case just when the economy needed a massive boost because our GDP has dropped off so far. Why does that not make you question the politics behind the decision?

They've "allowed" us the opportunity to bring in swaths of money into the Indian ecosystem. I think there needs to be ways for us to ensure that one fine day the FMC would not suddenly wake up and decide to ban crypto by calling it a commodity and banning all trade again. How do we stop a future like that from happening? That is the motive behind this thread.