[ANN] Bisq - Exchange, Decentralized.

[the_real_w000000t]

Being the aforementioned issue with taproot addresses and bitcoinj present in any version of bisq, updating to 1.9.5 still warrants new exciting features like the status light at bottom right! 

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[bpovtmg]

I have made multiple trades at Bisq and fully vouch for it. Great stuff and very cool! Thumbs up to people who developed that excellent platform!

[DireWolfM14]

Being the aforementioned issue with taproot addresses and bitcoinj present in any version of bisq, updating to 1.9.5 still warrants new exciting features like the status light at bottom right! 

It's hardly an issue as much as it is a feature that would be nice to have.  And of course you're right, previous versions wouldn't have that feature either.  As for the status light; it is nice to have as an indicator of network status.  It does tend to capture my attention and add to my anxiety when it isn't green. 

Regarding sending to taproot addresses; if one is careful not to spend locked or reserved UTXOs, Electrum can be used to send funds to taproot addresses.  It is worth noting that the Bisq team does not recommend using Electrum with your Bisq wallet because of the extra caution required when dealing with coin control.

[the_real_w000000t]

Regarding sending to taproot addresses; if one is careful not to spend locked or reserved UTXOs

Risk only stands for reserved utxos, spending which the open offers would become invalidated and you would waste the maker and miner fees that get paid at offer creation.
Locked utxos cannot be spent as they are in a multisig where the trade peers has the other key

[DireWolfM14]

Locked utxos cannot be spent as they are in a multisig where the trade peers has the other key

Thanks for the clarification.  I honestly never thought about what the difference was, but that makes perfect sense.  Had I paid attention, I guess I would have noticed that only coins engaged in an active trade are marked as "locked."

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Can someone help explain why there are such high premiums on Bisq for BTC vs USD?
Why aren't people taking advantage of the price differences?
Could it be that there's a problem with the payment methods (Pardon me please, I have never used Zwelle  )? Perhaps cashing out is hard?

[the_real_w000000t]

Can someone help explain why there are such high premiums on Bisq for BTC vs USD?
Why aren't people taking advantage of the price differences?
Could it be that there's a problem with the payment methods (Pardon me please, I have never used Zwelle  )? Perhaps cashing out is hard?
https://i.imgur.com/x2bkru3.png

I would say that Bisq is just a representation of free market, and the values you see are not more than the individual preferences of traders, everyone wants to get cheap bitcoin, and many are okay with paying it way over spot to get to it without proper KYC

[DireWolfM14]

Can someone help explain why there are such high premiums on Bisq for BTC vs USD?
Why aren't people taking advantage of the price differences?

This just tells me that it's a good time to buy bitcoin. 
Many folks are still bullish, and many investors buy regardless of the price.  Even at a 3% premium the current price does a lot for one's dollar-cost-average.  Also note in the screenshot you posted, the really high percentage offerings are for small amounts.  Most people aren't going to bother to sell $39 worth of bitcoin, but if they were planning on buying something at Amazon anyway, an 8% discount can't hurt.

Could it be that there's a problem with the payment methods (Pardon me please, I have never used Zwelle  )? Perhaps cashing out is hard?

Zelle is far from perfect for the seller, chargebacks are possible.  But it's one of the better options in the USA for now.  Cashing out isn't hard at all, the money is deposited straight to your bank account.  I've never had issues with it, but Bisq tends to be one of the safer trading platforms for various reasons.  For both buyers and sellers with US based bank accounts, Zelle is the most convenient payment method available.

[dkbit98]

Can someone help explain why there are such high premiums on Bisq for BTC vs USD?
Why aren't people taking advantage of the price differences?
Could it be that there's a problem with the payment methods (Pardon me please, I have never used Zwelle  )? Perhaps cashing out is hard?

I never used Zwelle and I don't know how it works, but you can always create your own offers in Bisq, or take advantage with any price difference.
Situation with Bisq is somehow similar to other p2p trading websites (AgoraDesk, LocalCryptos, etc) so I think this is nothing specific to Bisq.
You can follow bisq markets to find real price and trades, price for USD pairs looks almost the same like in centrlaized exchanges, but EUR price is different currently:
https://bisq.markets/

[n0nce]

I had an idea the other day; would like to hear some opinions - whether anyone else would find it useful.
What if it were possible to install Bisq with a CLI interface on a small server or other box that is always online, with the ability to control it from another device?

Some example scenarios:
(1) User owns a server and a laptop. When at work, at home, cafe, anywhere, the user can connect to Bisq running on the server and perform an action if needed. This can be anything from initiating a trade to confirming received funds or anything else in the trading protocol.
(2) User owns a desktop and a mobile phone. The desktop cannot be carried around and the phone will be in standby mode for most time of the day; so there's no way to host offers and being able to interact with them quickly. With this improvement, the PC could host the application, even if the user is on a trip abroad or similar, and they can just buy & sell BTC through a phone app.
(3) User has bad internet connectivity, so their offers go down all the time. By renting a tiny server, they can run Bisq without issues 24/7 and only connect to it when needed.

While you can start it and pass some options from the command-line ^[1], I don't think there is any 'client' like bitcoin-cli or lightning-cli that allows you to interact with the application in an SSH session or even through a GUI that connects to your instance's Tor address.

If there is interest for such functionality, I'd look into suggesting it to the Bisq development team or do some work on it myself.

[1] https://bisq.wiki/Command_line_options

[DireWolfM14]

~

I was doing some server updates yesterday, and went looking for exactly what you're describing, but was disappointed to find that it still didn't exist.  This wasn't the first time I went looking for such a thing, so I wasn't expecting much.  It appears that the CLI options to which you linked were only recreantly added (v1.9,) and I've heard that this functionality is in the works.  It will be pretty awesome to have Bisq running on a home server with the ability to access all it's features from a mobile app or a webpage.

I started thinking about it again recently while learning how to run Robosats locally.  But Robosats still has many of it's functions running on remote servers, obviously.

[n0nce]

I've heard that this functionality is in the works. It will be pretty awesome to have Bisq running on a home server with the ability to access all it's features from a mobile app or a webpage.

Really? Where did you hear that, if I may ask? That would be awesome, indeed. I envision something like Ride-The-Lightning, which is accessible from any of your devices that runs Tor Browser. A phone app could connect to it, too, similarly to how SPV wallets (desktop or mobile) can connect to your full node's Electrum Server through Tor.

[DireWolfM14]

I've heard that this functionality is in the works. It will be pretty awesome to have Bisq running on a home server with the ability to access all it's features from a mobile app or a webpage.

Really? Where did you hear that, if I may ask?

Some reddit post from an unknown individual, lol.  Sorry, I didn't mean to get your hopes up or make it sound like I heard it from a reliable source.

The CLI options certainly make it possible for some crafty individual to develop a frontend.  The software is Java based, but I don't think the API cares what language is used for the frontend.

That would be awesome, indeed. I envision something like Ride-The-Lightning, which is accessible from any of your devices that runs Tor Browser. A phone app could connect to it, too, similarly to how SPV wallets (desktop or mobile) can connect to your full node's Electrum Server through Tor.

Lol, RTL (and Electrs) is what I was updating yesterday.  I'm sensing some cosmic-wavelength-connection here...  either that or you installed a key logger on my 'puter.    

[dkbit98]

If there is interest for such functionality, I'd look into suggesting it to the Bisq development team or do some work on it myself.

It's interesting idea, but I would rather like to see some light version of Bisq exchange that could run on mobile devices.
Maybe you won't be able to use all features from desktop version, but you could make trades and do basic functions.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen when Bisq 2.0 comes out, and I heard some rumors release is not far away, and this will be a major change.
I would wait for this new release to come out before making any new suggestions to Bisq devs.

[n0nce]

If there is interest for such functionality, I'd look into suggesting it to the Bisq development team or do some work on it myself.

It's interesting idea, but I would rather like to see some light version of Bisq exchange that could run on mobile devices.
Maybe you won't be able to use all features from desktop version, but you could make trades and do basic functions.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen when Bisq 2.0 comes out, and I heard some rumors release is not far away, and this will be a major change.
I would wait for this new release to come out before making any new suggestions to Bisq devs.

The problem with mobile devices is that they are usually only able to run software in the background for a limited amount of time. Keeping up a Tor connection for hours or days to host your trade is not something your mobile device battery will really enjoy. It may actually not be possible; mobile OSes might kill long running background tasks after a while.

[DireWolfM14]

It's interesting idea, but I would rather like to see some light version of Bisq exchange that could run on mobile devices.
Maybe you won't be able to use all features from desktop version, but you could make trades and do basic functions.

I agree with n0nce on this one; as it is a program like bisq would have a hard time running on a mobile device.  The only way would it could work if bisq could run as a background service as he and I discussed in our recent posts, or trust some third party to host your seed which would be a non-starter for me.

I am waiting to see what is going to happen when Bisq 2.0 comes out, and I heard some rumors release is not far away, and this will be a major change.
I would wait for this new release to come out before making any new suggestions to Bisq devs.

I wouldn't expect much in the way of development of Bisq v1 either.  If a CLI API with a frontend is to be developed I doubt we'll see it before v2 is released.

Which brings up a good point; I know there are a few good developers here, and the Bisq team could use help with developing the user interface for v2.  It's easy to request compensation for your contribution, so anyone who thinks they can help I encourage you to mosey on over to their matrix room to learn more:  https://matrix.to/#/#bisq.v2.dev:bitcoin.kyoto

[LeGaulois]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a recommandation.

I'm ready to give up to use Bisq. Each time it's a nightmare and I'm lucky when I finish a TX.
However, I'm ready to give a last chance and to try to use it with a virtual server. What specs should I buy to be 'safe' (RAM and CPU).
It will be based on KVM, so the ressources will be 'dedicated'

[DireWolfM14]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a recommandation.

I'm ready to give up to use Bisq. Each time it's a nightmare and I'm lucky when I finish a TX.
However, I'm ready to give a last chance and to try to use it with a virtual server. What specs should I buy to be 'safe' (RAM and CPU).
It will be based on KVM, so the ressources will be 'dedicated'

I looked through Bisq's documentation, but I couldn't find any mention of the minimum system requirements or any recommendations.  I went back and looked at your previous post about your hardware issues, and I see that you only have 4GB of ram on your current rig.  That seems rather light, but it should be enough for a light weight OS such as Debian.  If you're running Windows I would recommend at least 8GB.  I don't think that Bisq software requires much in the way of processing power, so a dual-core processor should be enough, but again, that would somewhat depend on the OS you are using.  If you're a Windows user I would recommend a minimum 4-Core processor.

I've been hearing good things about the ZimaBoard 832, which is a single board computer with a quad-core Celeron processor and 8GB of RAM.  They sell for about $180 on Amazon, and are capable of running Windows.  In the long-run something like that might be cheaper than running Bisq on VPS, and certainly more secure.  Personally, I wouldn't want to run wallet software (even if it is just a hot wallet,) on a cloud-based system.

I have a couple of old lap-tops in storage, but I don't remember what their specs are.  I'll pull them out and inspect them this weekend, and if they're capable I'll let you know.  I'd be willing to part with one (or both) for very little money, if you're interested.

[LeGaulois]

Same here, I didn't find anything relevent about the minimum system requirements, not even a discussion, so I concluded there is no difference in this matter.

And yeah, I'm the guy who has always a problem with Bisq lol. I have 4 gb ram but in reality I have 6 gb. I think there is 2 gb used as like a swap file for Linux.
Intel I5 5200U CPU@2.20 Ghz It should be enough as a system basically because Bisq is not a software doing millions of computations per second, or a super super heavy video game.

I know using a server for this purpose is not a good security practice and I have listed the risks. Considering that I don't store funds, unless a person in control of the server clicks to confirm a transaction, releases the collateral and transfers it to his wallet.

So I'm only risking the collateral. Knowing that I don't do big transactions... I try to weigh the pros and cons but I don't see something else 'dangerous'...

edit:

off-topic, but how that comes above CPU @ 2.20 is linking to mailto:CPU@2.20
 

[n0nce]

~

Are you trying to run Bisq on a headless server? What for? Can you interact with it on the command-line? I was actually wondering about that the other day...
I can say that it runs perfectly well on a 4-th gen Intel Core i5 and 8GB of RAM. Anything newer, obviously, too, but this is the oldest configuration I've tried. It was a little slow and took some time to fully load, but it was fine.

Bisq uses between 1.5 and 2GB of memory on my machine, so 4-6GB should suffice. Operating systems also have swap in case you fill your actual RAM completely. So that's not really a reason for software not to start at all, but heavy swap usage would be slower and degrade your SSD over time.